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[Ricky_R]

No they weren't. It was clear as day that Microsoft didn't give a shit about first party titles. They relied on a couple of IPs and made no investment into other studios. They were heavily relying on those IPs, third parties, and Xbox Live community to keep people on there. It was night and day with what Sony was doing with first party compared to Microsoft.

They sure were at the beginning. It was only about 3 years in that they slowly, but surely started to shift/expand their interests. The moment when it was clear as day was at their 2010 E3.

Which is my whole damn point.

 

[Brera]

And people say I'm a shit poster...

 

[Marty Chinn]

They sure were at the beginning. It was only about 3 years in that they slowly, but surely started to shift/expand their interests. The moment when it was clear as day was at their 2010 E3.

No, not even at the beginning. Microsoft never made a big push for first party development. That doesn't mean they didn't have some, but it was never a focus of theirs where as clearly it was something Sony was doing heavily and even said so. It paid off for Sony and it's going to be even a bigger payoff now that they've matured. Microsoft was half ass committed to first parties this generation and it shows quite a bit even in the beginning. I say this with some first hand experience with the matter as well.

 

[paradise_circus]

Who would rather have to get up to turn on a light switch when you can just say lights on or have the lights automatically come on when Kinect recognizes you entered a room.

Using tools with your body (especially using your hands) is more natural/instinctive/intuitive than speaking to tools.

 

[Ricky_R]

No, not even at the beginning. Microsoft never made a big push for first party development. That doesn't mean they didn't have some, but it was never a focus of theirs where as clearly it was something Sony was doing heavily and even said so. It paid off for Sony and it's going to be even a bigger payoff now that they've matured. Microsoft was half ass committed to first parties this generation and it shows quite a bit even in the beginning. I say this with some first hand experience with the matter as well.

I disagree. They sure were committed whether it was first party, third party, Japan push, etc, etc. Did they PR a "1 billion for first party games" announcement? No, but they sure were committed to the "core" gamers. It's definitely nice that they announced the investment though.

However, that investment is probably to cover the 15 games they also announced, 8 of which are new IPs. Problem is that we don't really know how many of those 8 will be Kinect games and the fact that they not only improved Kinect greatly, but are bundling it with every system doesn't help much.

And bundling Kinect is not the problem. It's their shift in focus since 2010 and their strategy around the Xbone so far. This is why I keep repeating that it's not difficult to understand why there's many people so skeptical or jumping to conclusions. Conclusion that aren't really unfounded.

 

[TacticalFox88]

The company is on the brink of complete failure. They are not in a great position

LOL what? On the brink of failure? Yeah I'm sure the slow process to return to profitability is a complete failure

 

[Marty Chinn]

I disagree. They sure were committed whether it was first party, third party, Japan push, etc, etc. Did they PR a "1 billion for first party games" announcement? No, but they sure were committed to the "core" gamers. It's definitely nice that they announced the investment though.

However, that investment is probably to cover the 15 games they also announced, 8 of which are new IPs. Problem is that we don't really know how many of those 8 will be Kinect games and the fact that they not only improved Kinect greatly, but are bundling it with every system doesn't help much.

And bundling Kinect is not the problem. It's their shift in focus since 2010 and their strategy around the Xbone so far. This is why I keep repeating that it's not difficult to understand why there's many people so skeptical or jumping to conclusions. Conclusion that aren't really unfounded.

How were they commited? What were all the first party IPs that came out early on that went away? How many studios can you name or were of focus? Heck, even Halo 3 didn't launch for at least two years until after the system was released. It's pretty clear that Microsoft's first party support was pretty lacking even early on. It was nothing compared to what Sony was doing with their heavy emphasis on building studios, building IPs, sharing tech between studios, and so forth. Again, Microsoft's first party support and commitment was mediocre since the beginning of the Xbox 360 and it was clear they heavily relied on a few IPs that were exclusive and focused on third parties because of the Xbox Live Community.

Now I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out Microsoft is late to building their first party support and that such a task is going to take time to mature. I think it's fair to wonder how many titles Microsoft is going to aim at the core market versus the casual Kinect market.

I don't think it's fair to say they aren't committed to games at this point in time, or they are not focusing on games though. With what we know, we know there are several exclusive titles with several new IPs that are coming within the first 12 months of launch, and they're investing a billion into new studios, new IPs, and first party game development. With the facts at hand, there is no sign that they are not committed. In fact, I think they're more committed now than they ever were with the Xbox 360.

So based on the facts, and given that E3 is less than two weeks away at this point where Microsoft has stated that they will be focused on showing games there which any reasonable person could have come the conclusion of, why don't we wait before we jump to any baseless conclusions and have some conclusions that have something that can back it up?

I'll be honest; it feels weird to me defending Microsoft and the Xbox One because there are soooooo many things that are valid complaints that people should be giving Microsoft shit over.

LOL what? On the brink of failure? Yeah I'm sure the slow process to return to profitability is a complete failure

While I agree that the comment about brink of failure was dumb to make and not in the same context as Sony positioning the PS4 in a good spot based off their strategic moves, let's not overstate the profitability angle of Sony. They did some creative things to make their numbers look good this last year. It remains to be seen if they will look profitable on a regular basis.

 

[GrimDarkDarrel]

To me, the best thing about this is that it appears to be a reaction to peoples reactions to the XBox One.

Maybe the gamers reaction is impossible to miss, but with big sites like IGN just talking about how wonderful the new XBox will be (Greg Miller in particular, you fail), it is easy to imagine MS and Sony just pushing crazy agendas and consoles being less and less about games and more and more about insidious, non fun-related monetization methods.

 

[genjiZERO]

It's not hard to scrape metadata though. XBMC has been doing it for years.



But it is precise now because all we have is a general idea. Until you can list ALL the features to do a comparison, you can't quantify which one is proportionally leaning one way or the other. At this point in time, everyone is being premature about what is what because nobody has the full picture yet and we won't for the next 5 months.

The problem is that it's just not something that can be quantified. It's not a unit of measurement. The specs of the machines can be quantified - they are units of measurement. But what the systems "offer" is a purely qualitative thing. Consequently, the order and way in which MS and Sony describe their systems should be taken into consideration. From a qualitative perspective MS does seem to be more concerned on non-gaming aspects of their platform than Sony. I think people are reasonably upset about this. From what information is available the focus of both systems isn't "equal" as the original post suggests.

 

[mrklaw]

One, we don't know the price yet. Two, if you've seen the demo of how it is intended to work, the integration isn't just compositing a universal overlay onto separate feeds with some CEC control over HDMI-connected devices/IR-blaster/network, it's that the software can act accurately on voice commands that say 'XBOX, play X-Files' and then it switches to the channel that is playing exactly that at the moment. There's no device or service that even works remotely as stupid-simple as that right now. Not saying that the market is begging for easy interaction like that, but the world was never begging for nearly anything consumer electronic-related that was popular before now. It's really the first time a console will come built-in with a consideration for what the user already likely has. Obviously, there are exclusive offerings on top of that, as well as anything else MS wants to throw in there that they haven't revealed yet or are going to offer in the future.

Those looking for just television-integration won't have need for something as expensive and large as a X1, but for people who want a new games machine to go with, it's a million miles above what what Apple, Roku, or Google offer and, at least, in the same league as PS4. The big thing with this approach is that even if you don't give a flying fuck about the television end of things and are part of the streaming-only crowd, this system should be competitively priced against PS4 and have big new next-gen games. If I were MS, I would leverage my warchest and ability to have a completely focused television/entertainment side of tech and creatives to support that side of X1 and simply bulk up the gaming side so that you could effectively address both the gamer and early adopter as well as everyone else. You only need to have the games to make the most demanding gamer happy. If MS comes at everyone with a load of excellent titles at launch, it will be every bit as compelling to the gamer as a game-focused PS4.

I just don't see it selling to the average household right away.

I would pay almost any amount of money if they'd integrate my TiVo to access recordings eg and streams over my LAN. Xbox one is tantalisingly close but not quite enough. Maybe I expect too much from something purporting to integrate my media, but I also have disposable income to buy it

 

[Ricky_R]

How were they commited? What were all the first party IPs that came out early on that went away? How many studios can you name or were of focus? Heck, even Halo 3 didn't launch for at least two years until after the system was released. It's pretty clear that Microsoft's first party support was pretty lacking even early on. It was nothing compared to what Sony was doing with their heavy emphasis on building studios, building IPs, sharing tech between studios, and so forth. Again, Microsoft's first party support and commitment was mediocre since the beginning of the Xbox 360 and it was clear they heavily relied on a few IPs that were exclusive and focused on third parties because of the Xbox Live Community.

Now I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out Microsoft is late to building their first party support and that such a task is going to take time to mature. I think it's fair to wonder how many titles Microsoft is going to aim at the core market versus the casual Kinect market.

I don't think it's fair to say they aren't committed to games at this point in time, or they are not focusing on games though. With what we know, we know there are several exclusive titles with several new IPs that are coming within the first 12 months of launch, and they're investing a billion into new studios, new IPs, and first party game development. With the facts at hand, there is no sign that they are not committed. In fact, I think they're more committed now than they ever were with the Xbox 360.

So based on the facts, and given that E3 is less than two weeks away at this point where Microsoft has stated that they will be focused on showing games there which any reasonable person could have come the conclusion of, why don't we wait before we jump to any baseless conclusions and have some conclusions that have something that can back it up?

I'll be honest; it feels weird to me defending Microsoft and the Xbox One because there are soooooo many things that are valid complaints that people should be giving Microsoft shit over.



While I agree that the comment about brink of failure was dumb to make and not in the same context as Sony positioning the PS4 in a good spot based off their strategic moves, let's not overstate the profitability angle of Sony. They did some creative things to make their numbers look good this last year. It remains to be seen if they will look profitable on a regular basis.

I clearly said that they were committed to offer quality content whether it was first, second or third party. The 360 was designed with "core" gaming as a priority, they were focused on providing great games whether it was offline or online by bundling the headset, putting the few studios they had to work on exclusives games, investing on third party exclusives, pushing for the Japan market with some good JRPG's, etc.

If you take MS at the beginning of this gen and compare it with MS after E3 2010 the difference is night and day. Now MS is investing in first party content with a promise on delivering, but like I've said multiple times, until I'm sure they will keep delivering on that promise I will remain skeptical.

We need results from MS, not more PR talk.

EDIT: Btw, I'm willing to ignore all the BS (DRM, online once every 24 hours, etc.) if the games are there. Don't mistake my skepticism with not wanting them to actually release a lot of games. I honestly hope so, since we all benefit from it.

 

[M°°nblade]

because tv makers don't give flying hoot, and want to focus only on visuals/cost?

That's strange. Last time I checked TV manufacturers were all about TV's being smart, reading photo's from a memory sticks, playing movies from a USB stick and an internet outlet to browse the internet.

Here's some science fucking fiction for you:

It's 3am, the wife's asleep, and the husband's going to clearly speak out loud "Xbox, weather channel".

In real life he'd use a remote, and it wouldn't be the weather channel.

*spills his beer*

damn you

No, with the power of kinect, you only need your hands to switch to the weather channel late at night, here's the input :

and damn you too

 

[Dragon]

The company is on the brink of complete failure. They are not in a great position

Wow really?

 

[somesayyea]

I just don't see it selling to the average household right away.

I would pay almost any amount of money if they'd integrate my TiVo to access recordings eg and streams over my LAN. Xbox one is tantalisingly close but not quite enough. Maybe I expect too much from something purporting to integrate my media, but I also have disposable income to buy it

Buy/build a htpc, install xbmc and you're good to go.

 

[MasLegio]

No, with the power of kinect, you only need your hands to switch to the weather channel late at night, here's the input :

you do not even need to use your hands.

just pull down pants to knees and the xbox knows what you want to see

when you quickly pull the pants back up it will immediately switch to the discovery channel

 

[TheLight]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

That sounds batman-y so absolutely I would.

 

[artist]

Anybody else seeing a lot of greyed-out usernames, checking their post history and not seeing any ban material stuff?

Or am I alone?

bish, you have changed things forever.

 

[Drachma]

lmao... it's like there's a fresh ban in every thread I visit today.

This place is gonna be so full of grey people come E3 it'll be like The Artist but probably even more tedious.

 

[benny_a]

Anybody else seeing a lot of greyed-out usernames, checking their post history and not seeing any ban material stuff?

Or am I alone?

bish, you have changed things forever.

The search is not super up to date. You need to wait a few hours until things show up.
But yeah, I also don't understand it a lot of time lately.

 

[DrForester]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Yes...

Yes I would.

 

[legacyzero]

Anybody else seeing a lot of greyed-out usernames, checking their post history and not seeing any ban material stuff?

Or am I alone?

bish, you have changed things forever.

I don't know how much more popcorn I can eat..

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Why yes! Yes I would :lol

 

[Marty Chinn]

I clearly said that they were committed to offer quality content whether it was first, second or third party. The 360 was designed with "core" gaming as a priority, they were focused on providing great games whether it was offline or online by bundling the headset, putting the few studios they had to work on exclusives games, investing on third party exclusives, pushing for the Japan market with some good JRPG's, etc.

If you take MS at the beginning of this gen and compare it with MS after E3 2010 the difference is night and day. Now MS is investing in first party content with a promise on delivering, but like I've said multiple times, until I'm sure they will keep delivering on that promise I will remain skeptical.

The thing is, we haven't hit E3 yet and we don't know what's coming from first party, what's coming from third party, what exclusives there are, what the launch line up is, and so forth. So how can we make the claim of what their commitment to games is without having gotten to the big game announcement that is happening in less than two weeks? It's premature.

We need results from MS, not more PR talk.

The irony here is that I came into this thread saying what Kaz is doing is PR, not gospel and that we shouldn't take what he's saying as a sign that Sony is more committed to games than MS or that Sony doesn't have commitments to media services. We need to wait and see on that, but Kaz's quote is 100% taking advantage of Microsoft being sucker punched. I don't blame Sony for taking that advantage, but let's see his quote for what it really is.

The problem is that it's just not something that can be quantified. It's not a unit of measurement. The specs of the machines can be quantified - they are units of measurement. But what the systems "offer" is a purely qualitative thing. Consequently, the order and way in which MS and Sony describe their systems should be taken into consideration. From a qualitative perspective MS does seem to be more concerned on non-gaming aspects of their platform than Sony. I think people are reasonably upset about this. From what information is available the focus of both systems isn't "equal" as the original post suggests.

It should only be taken into consideration of what their strategy was for how they were going to let the flow of information come out and nothing more. It's one step in a series of steps before launch. We only know very little about either of these systems and yet people are jumping to conclusions. At the very least let us learn all the details that will make up the launch of the system before even beginning to determine what is what on each systems. We're still over 5 months away from the launch of either and we know one piece of a puzzle.

 

[DrM]

c'mon bish, unleash the beast

 

[Krusenstern]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Let us see, please.

 

[OrangeYouGlad]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Please do this. It would be incredibly interesting to find out.

 

[ambientmystic]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Make it happen, kind sir. Make it happen.

On a related note, yikes at the number of greyed out names in this thread alone.

 

[Ricky_R]

The thing is, we haven't hit E3 yet and we don't know what's coming from first party, what's coming from third party, what exclusives there are, what the launch line up is, and so forth. So how can we make the claim of what their commitment to games is without having gotten to the big game announcement that is happening in less than two weeks? It's premature.

It's only premature if you dismiss everything that MS has done since they shifted focus right up until the Xbone reveal. For me it's definitely not premature AT ALL to be skeptical since I'm not conveniently discarding their change in strategy throughout the last 3 to 4 years.

The irony here is that I came into this thread saying what Kaz is doing is PR, not gospel and that we shouldn't take what he's saying as a sign that Sony is more committed to games than MS or that Sony doesn't have commitments to media services. We need to wait and see on that, but Kaz's quote is 100% taking advantage of Microsoft being sucker punched. I don't blame Sony for taking that advantage, but let's see his quote for what it really is.

Kaz might be doing PR, but he/Sony deserve the benefit of the doubt for what they have been constructing over the years, specially in the last couple of them and even more with the system they designed, the strategy behind it and the content of their reveal.

We need to wait and see indeed, but for the millionth time, there's definitely room for skepticism if you just don't ignore what's been in front of you these past few years. If you want me to think that everything both companies have done until today isn't important or doesn't exist, then sure, everything is beautiful and I'm confident MS will deliver not only at E3, but 7 or 8 years later.

 

[bishoptl]

c'mon bish, unleash the beast

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

 

[Marty Chinn]

It's only premature if you dismiss everything that MS has done since they shifted focus right up until the Xbone reveal. For me it's definitely not premature AT ALL to be skeptical since I'm not conveniently discarding they change in strategy throughout the last 3 to 4 years.

You were going on about how they shifted to Kinect games, but Sony also pushed the PS Move, Wonderbook and so forth. They all went after the casual market too. MS didn't shift focus; it just became more evident, from which I saw from the beginning, that MS was relying on third parties and XBL to support the 360.

 

[Majmun]

and Popgaf does it for free.

WTF, we don't chill

 

[artist]

The search is not super up to date. You need to wait a few hours until things show up.
But yeah, I also don't understand it a lot of time lately.

Yeah I see that when I look up my own posts (search not including most recent posts) but still it has given recent bannings a new meaning. I cant help but click on that username dammit.

I don't know how much more popcorn I can eat..

I was ready to pop some corn but bish killed that urge last night.

 

[Ricky_R]

You were going on about how they shifted to Kinect games, but Sony also pushed the PS Move, Wonderbook and so forth. They all went after the casual market too. MS didn't shift focus; it just became more evident, from which I saw from the beginning, that MS was relying on third parties and XBL to support the 360.

The issue is not Kinect or Move (for me), but how were both implemented and at what cost. Kinect ended up being a priority while Move was just an added value as it didn't have any effect on their first/second party output.

That has been my main point since the beginning. It's about the focus and their priorities right now in contrast to everything they've been doing for the last couple of years until now. If I put everything on the table, I have a Sony that makes me excited and a MS that makes me skeptical for what they might bring. I have nothing more to base my expectations on.

If MS delivers I will happily eat crow since it's actually a crow I want to eat.

 

[RiPPn]

The company is on the brink of complete failure. They are not in a great position

Yeah, Sony brings in 9 Billion alone on their insurance division, but yeah they are struggling. Microsoft fanboys make me laugh, especially when you look at all the trouble their beloved company is in right now. Windows 8 is a failure. Surface is a Failure. Windows phone is a failure. Xbox One reveal was a failure. But don't worry, you dummies will continue to give them $60 a year for paywalls because they tell you it's a great deal, and that should keep them afloat.

 

[dragonbane]

Deleted.

 

[grumble]

Yeah, Sony brings in 9 Billion alone on their insurance division, but yeah they are struggling. Microsoft fanboys make me laugh, especially when you look at all the trouble their beloved company is in right now. Windows 8 is a failure. Surface is a Failure. Windows phone is a failure. Xbox One reveal was a failure. But don't worry, you dummies will continue to give them $60 a year for paywalls because they tell you it's a great deal, and that should keep them afloat.

Dude Sony is struggling financially.

The rest of your post reads like a fanboy rant.

 

[Averon]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Jesus. Those Mark Cerny and Amirox threads gives me new appreciation for what bishoptl hinted at here.

 

[dripdripsplash]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Please do!

 

[RiPPn]

Dude Sony is struggling financially.

The rest of your post reads like a fanboy rant.

It's not that I'm a fanboy, it's my disdain for Microsoft's Xbox division.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Dude Sony is struggling financially.

The rest of your post reads like a fanboy rant.

They WERE struggling financially.

They have fixed their economic position considerably in the year or so.

Sure, they still have some issues, but they are in a considerably better position now.

 

[Htown]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

such a tease

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

A bigger tease than E3 itself!

 

[Impeccable]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

Collect, track and account. The post will be glorious.

 

[yurinka]

Can somebody explain this billion dollars MS is spending on games posters keep mentioning in here. Seems unbelievable to spend on 15 games are next gen cost that crazy or just money spent to secure 3rd party exclusives.

1 billion dollar, only the double they spent for the first Kinect marketing campaign. When comparing that seems that their budget focus is not to make games.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

I await the glorious thunder of the approach of that thread.

 

[RadarScope1]

The numbers CNBC showed during the Kaz interview yesterday sure didn't seem to show Sony "struggling financially." IIRC, for the most recent fiscal year they were +$9B in financial services, +$7B in entertainment and -$8B in electronics. Kaz said they are at about half the loss level in electronics as they were when he took over a year ago.

 

[Nokterian]

We note.

We notice.

Hey, would anybody be interested in a thread where I detail some of the social agency email addresses that have come up during my offsite research into some of our more recently vocal members?

It's fascinating.

Imma grabbing my popcorn.

 

[Forkball]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

I'm assuming you want to see their post-E3 replies. You must feed the beast before you show it off.

 

[M°°nblade]

Nope. Not right now, anyways.

Well, at least we got ralexand in this thread. He basically gave himself away. But we want more blood.

 

[SunhiLegend]

 

[Ricky_R]

hahah nice.. As usual.