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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
But Iherre, surely this is a good thing! More GPU resources for the devs...over time...eventually...sometimes in the future. Riiiiiiight?
Whiteshirt
Member
Difference in efficiency mainly. A GPU isn't just FLOPS. To take the biggest CPU flop in recent memory as an example, Bulldozer's FLOPs throughput should have matched Sandy Bridge but as we know, that isn't the case because Bulldozer's cache latency is larger than any modern CPU has any right to be.
A HD7970 is close to one whole TFLOP more powerful than the GTX680 but the difference isn't really there except in insane resolutions where the limited VRAM in the GTX680 starts to hurt it.
lensoftruth
Member
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
No one is saying that.
10% of the GPU is dedicated to Kinect and Snap mode, and we kinda already knew that. The disadvantage in GPU power is clear.
Besides, decreasing the OS/features footprint or improving performance is nothing new for these past few consoles, so the article is pretty pointless, since their competitors will also be doing the same.
spookyfish
Member
"It's not about gigaflops or power ... except when it is."
R3TRODYCE
Member
Don't give me that crap; I only own one console atm and it's a PS3(PC too) and I have both next gen consoles paid in full so you can take that to someone who cares. I say positive stuff about both companies and give them both my money.
dragonelite
Member
Microsoft dun goofed should have launched at $369 or something without packed in kinect.
Their PR struggles would have been completely different. At least they have the 3rd party developers support which the Wii U misses.
Now they are trying to warp reality and pad themselves on their shoulders like they did a good job.
But yeah i rather had Microsoft and Sony release a more powerful $499 and both eat up $40~80 to at least make it 8 years proof. But yeah that is an dream.
Their PR struggles would have been completely different. At least they have the 3rd party developers support which the Wii U misses.
Now they are trying to warp reality and pad themselves on their shoulders like they did a good job.
But yeah i rather had Microsoft and Sony release a more powerful $499 and both eat up $40~80 to at least make it 8 years proof. But yeah that is an dream.
3rdamention
Member
LeeRoyBrown
Banned
Wow 500th cool news!
Contributing to the forum at it's best.
I fucking love this misleading story by the way.
Amazingly well constructed MS PR.
Yes, At one point Microsoft even admit to being ROP limited at times and that is why the upclock was better. Then they say bandwidth as well, which really wouldn't be affected much considering the upclock only affected one memory pool. Interesting tidbits there.
Why? He was critical on several aspects. The article title is suspect though.
This wasn't MS PR. This all occurred in the same interview that Leadbetter had for the previous article. They mentioned what they were doing in terms of GPU reservations and why and that they will trim that back as time goes on.
If they had decent hardware in the box to begin with they wouldn't need to bother even bringing this up, which is my point. The reason they are having to bring it up is because they PS4 is so much more powerful and they are being asked about it left and right.
They are basically saying the software will get better over time, they are correct. So will the PS4 and it's operating system. It's a game of catch up they will never win in this generation.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Did you sell your 360 or something?
R3TRODYCE
Member
The disc drive broke so Geek Squad warranty refunded me full price.
Neither has been confirm. Everything is still based on rumors. That was the point. Part of that ram is virtual ram.
I think in the end the ps4 will not use over 1-1.5GB for OS. That is still a massive amount of ram.
Stop with the video game version of "I have black friends". Everyone who's followed most of these next gen threads can tell what side you prefer. Being a fan of one doesn't mean you can't have the other. There's nothing even wrong with it but don't try to BS me.
PuppetMaster
Member
I was thinking the same
This war on Microsoft is weird. Last time I looked, there's only three companies making consoles.
Is the X1 not a game console? Does it not play all the new games with updated graphics? Does it not attempt to provide new experiences to the user?
The fact that it's weaker than the PS4 means little to me because the companies clearly targeted different strategies, but at the end of the day they both play games, they both have exclusives, they both target gamers.
The vitriol is annoying to read over and over and over.
Being a cynic about games has GOT to suck.
Is the X1 not a game console? Does it not play all the new games with updated graphics? Does it not attempt to provide new experiences to the user?
The fact that it's weaker than the PS4 means little to me because the companies clearly targeted different strategies, but at the end of the day they both play games, they both have exclusives, they both target gamers.
The vitriol is annoying to read over and over and over.
Being a cynic about games has GOT to suck.
Saturday article should be very interesting.
Glad that they did this interview, its very informative which some quite decent examples and raw data.
Anyone who complains about those articles, probably do not understand, how many information are in them.
What a pity thats those happened pre-launch, because articles are for niche, there are much less trolls.
Glad that they did this interview, its very informative which some quite decent examples and raw data.
Anyone who complains about those articles, probably do not understand, how many information are in them.
What a pity thats those happened pre-launch, because articles are for niche, there are much less trolls.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I think at this point these sites know they will attract attention from GAF with these types of articles. I think there's way too much repeated info and recycling going on and the conversation and same arguments get tiring regarding Xbone.
PS4, you mainly have the same confirmations and some articles sometimes trying to downplay the advantage and we go round and round that track as well.
Full? Nice. That should help pay for your next gen purchases.
PS4, you mainly have the same confirmations and some articles sometimes trying to downplay the advantage and we go round and round that track as well.
Full? Nice. That should help pay for your next gen purchases.
R3TRODYCE
Member
Well yeah I have preferences but don't label me an "Xbox fan" like I'm some kind of warrior, I like games period.
vpance
Member
Given that PS4 has no snap features, theoretically they can allocate most of not all of the GPU to whatever app is currently running, no? Wouldn't that give it an apps processing power advantage as well?
In contrast, since Xbone has the ability to run multiple apps at once with snap, AND a full fledged game all at the same time, which all had to be guaranteed, apps are limited to only using that 10% reserve.
In contrast, since Xbone has the ability to run multiple apps at once with snap, AND a full fledged game all at the same time, which all had to be guaranteed, apps are limited to only using that 10% reserve.
R3TRODYCE
Member
Yeah, they said they couldn't fix it but who can't fix a disc drive? lol I took the money and put it towards some next gen games.
shinra-bansho
Member
I thought that was the whole point of the title.
Because he has them both.
Crimson_Fate
Member
Well having to contend with 50 live tiles advertising baby wipes and Pizza may have something to do with the extra GPU need.
Wishmaster92
Member
Actually, it's not even a rumor. Thuway,BruceLeeroy, and Kagari all confirmed there are Ps4 games currently in development that are using 6gb of gddr5 ram, so it's pretty much confirmed, and that number can only go up now, not down.
Anyways, i see how the article is trying to spin this as something positive when it's not. Most of us knew there would be a 10% gpu reservation. That has now been confirmed. The positive is that they will reduce this, as they stated.
I just want to say, this is my first 'competing console' launch on neogaf (wiiU doesnt count) and I have to say, its bloody entertaining here. (Ive been gaming since atari made ET)
DF is not doing their best work in the pre-launch phase, they are exposing themselves by doing technical reviews of pre alpha code and writing articles that are contain errors or lack critical insight beyond what they are being spoonfed.
MS is tossing out so much PR about tech stuff that its obvious they are chasing something. whenyou start using news to 'reduce the negative' as a "major positive", somethings wrong. Something is wrong
Sony isnt helping themselves with their silence though...but I guess they are sold out through March basically, and probably are queing their PR attack to begin around Nov1.
As fun as this has been, looking forward to six months from now when we all retreat to the community threads for the games we own.
DF is not doing their best work in the pre-launch phase, they are exposing themselves by doing technical reviews of pre alpha code and writing articles that are contain errors or lack critical insight beyond what they are being spoonfed.
MS is tossing out so much PR about tech stuff that its obvious they are chasing something. whenyou start using news to 'reduce the negative' as a "major positive", somethings wrong. Something is wrong
Sony isnt helping themselves with their silence though...but I guess they are sold out through March basically, and probably are queing their PR attack to begin around Nov1.
As fun as this has been, looking forward to six months from now when we all retreat to the community threads for the games we own.
Once an app goes full screen, it can use 90%.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Actually, I thought it was rather confusing. If it's not too much of a bother, could you perhaps link to a post which explains how much RAM the PS4 has available for games?
yet you rant in a thread about technical hardware discussion ?
how about if you dont care about technical discussion then dont derail the thread with your whinning.
AdmiralPain
Banned
But it will be 10% more usable performance than is available now, yes? So again, how can this possibly be a bad thing? Are we operating under the assumption that the PS4 locks away 0% of its horsepower for UI and services? If so, I would like a link that verifies this please.
qa_engineer
Member
I'm just ready for the games and multiplat comparisons. DISGONBGOOD.GIF
Thats not even the point I was making. You are going by the notion that every bump must be a reaction to the PS4 which is the mindset you came in with. You made that assumption, and that shows in the first reply you made. But in reality none of that versus mentality was even needed, why go all defensive for something that wasnt even dragged in the mud.
That's great for you and others who are devoted customers, but for prospective customers, it all comes across as a bit desperate and focuses attention on the Xbone's biggest weakness rather than focusing on its strengths.
Every time I think they're going to stop talking tech and focus on what looks like a decent launch lineup and multimedia functionality, they talk a little more about how they are tweaking their hardware for the umpteenth time.
By all means, improve your hardware quietly in a lab, but when you talk about it, you look like you didn't have a strong plan in the first place.
Just watch Jr
Only confirm dev in this thread[sorry if i miss someone else]
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
The whining of the vitriol is far more annoying to read. If you don't like the nitpicking about specs, get out of the specs thread.
the OS reservation has nothing to do with the performance of the OS (might sound counter intuitive, but stick with me)
on xbox one, the GPU reservation is there for snap mode. Where you can have the game, running alongside the OS UI and another app. If the game is using 100% of the GPU, there is no way the OS or app can do anything. Therefore, MS reserves some of the GPU for the OS and apps so you can have both working side by side.
when the game is suspended, and you're in the main Xbox dashboard, you can use all the GPU you want (because the game is suspended, it isn't using any). So the main dashboard can be super slick and responsive.
On PS4 you don't have the equivalent of snap - you never have the OS and an app running side by side with a game. you switch between game OR OS, not both. So the game can use the GPU fully, and so can the OS.
Because it is nothing new, every generation the OS resources goes down and the resources available to developers are bigger than at launch.
It is not nothing to be proud, it is the usual cycle.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
If I understand this right. The XBO GPU is actually 10% less powerfull when it comes to games then we all assumed. This is because that power is allocated to nongaming apps, Kinect and multitasking. But the "good" news is that MS will give that power back to devs in the future... maybe.
How are people able to spin this into good news when it comes to gaming? Weird.
How are people able to spin this into good news when it comes to gaming? Weird.
TetraGenesis
Member
This should have been the 1st post.
Yeah, instead of someone actually saying "1st" like it's 2007 again.
It's good news if you did believe the 10% reserve rumors.
It's bad news if you didn't.
Simple as that.
it is a Digital Foundry article