Support NeoGAF

[DaSorcerer7]

lock if old.

Xbox One reserves 10 per cent of graphics resources for Kinect and apps functionality, Digital Foundry can confirm, with Microsoft planning to open up this additional GPU power for game development in the future. This, and further graphics and performance-based information was revealed during our lengthy discussions with two of the architects behind the Xbox One silicon.

"Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode," Microsoft technical fellow Andrew Goossen told us.

"The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development - strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering. In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."

more here

 

[mrklaw]

how do they plan to do that without reducing the amount of resources available to snap mode apps? I guess most apps you'd be likely to snap would be data driven stuff - skype, IE, NFL fantasy league etc, which wouldn't need much GPU. Maybe they could make it so any games/graphics intensive apps aren't snappable next to a game?

 

[Loris146]

how do they plan to do that without reducing the amount of resources available to snap mode apps?

Special sauce.

 

[Gori]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

 

[donkey show]

Don't ruin the balance!

 

[Skeff]

how do they plan to do that without reducing the amount of resources available to snap mode apps?

They can't. Bye bye snap.

 

[Asd202]

Don't ruin the balance!

This should have been the 1st post .

 

[alterno69]

I know it's not the same but isn't this similar to freeing ram after optimizing the system OS over time?

 

[nib95]

Both companies will likely reduce the reserves and memory footprint over time. I wonder if they'll cut any features to allow for this, or if it's just through optimisation?

 

[qa_engineer]

so the rumors about xbone reserving GPU/CPU resources for Kinect/OS were true. Damn NeoGaf, you scary good with digging up those rumors from way back when

 

[frizby]

These guys need to stop talking specs. It simply highlights a disadvantage.

 

[thehypocrite]

Breaking that perfect balance.

 

[Impeccable]

I could have sworn that this stuff didn't matter and it was all about the games.

 

[IMBored]

Doesn't that mean that normally the GPU is even weaker than expected? Because 10% of it is for the Kinect?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

10% seem like to much in the first place .

 

[foxbeldin]

Relevant question would be, how much of those 10% can they really unlock. A quarter? Half? Certainly not all of it.

So what are we talking about? A 3% boost?

 

[GameSeeker]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

Yes, they do.

This is good news for gamers. The Xbone reservation for Windows apps (Snap Mode) was always very high: 2 CPU cores, 3 GB RAM, 10% of the GPU. Anything Microsoft can do to reduce this in the future will be good for games.

 

[stryke]

so the rumors about xbone reserving GPU/CPU resources for Kinect/OS were true. Damn NeoGaf, you scary good with digging up those rumors from way back when

I'm fairly sure the 10% figure came from Kotaku

 

[vpance]

So PS4 back up to 56% GPU advantage.

 

[Barzul]

These guys need to stop talking specs. It simply highlights a disadvantage.

Why should they? I'm buying an Xbox One and I want to know this stuff.

 

[onQ123]

I think it was pretty silly of them to make a console that's focused around Kinect yet they didn't have a Image processing unit in the console just for Kinect. SMH.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

polish it all you want, still weak

 

[walltowall]

They can't. Bye bye snap.

Wouldn't it just be software optimization of the OS?

 

[Atlas157]

So it'll get a tiny bump, but does that bump even matter?

I'm not really that smart when it comes to this, so will it even make a difference?

 

[Night Angel]

Parity confirmed. In the future. Which is when this will be beta tested. -.-

Wouldn't this mess with the Kinect and snap mode features that are using that extra GPU power? Since unlocking 10% won't get them to match the PlayStation anyway, I hope they don't nerf unique features chasing that goal.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Another quality MS press release written by Richard Leadbetter.

These days I just look at the byline, see his name, and then close the tab.

 

[darkwing]

so it is not balanced anymore?

180!!!!

 

[USC-fan]

guest gpu = dxcore

MS "Guest gpu = 10% of the 1.31 gpu reserved for apps"

lol misterx

sorry i just find this stuff funny. Ms killing one dream at a time.

edit: wow look at the spinning:

Ekim the "insider" so much for your ROP rumor lol

"The relationship between fill-rate and memory bandwidth is a good example of where balance is necessary. A high fill-rate won't help if the memory system can't sustain the bandwidth required to run at that fill-rate," said Goossen.

WHAT?!!?!? I thought xbone had 250GB/s lol.

Microsoft revealed research it had carried out that suggested that the 6.6 per cent increase to GPU clock speed was more beneficial to the system than two additional AMD Radeon Graphics Core Next compute units. Our question was straightforward enough - were the results of these tests skewed by the code saturating the ROPs?

Yes, some parts of the frames may have been ROP-bound.

Of course, great they left this detail out of the first "interview." Also goes on to show the esram just cannot keep up.

Microsoft's pitch is that its hardware set-up wouldn't necessarily be able to make use of them even if they were there.

Agree, that is why ps4 has more b/w, rops, alu, and tmu. Problem is they trying to push their limits onto the ps4.

Looking forward to the complete interview.

 

[clip]

polish it all you want, still weak

What if they polish it to be 56% faster than playstation would it still be weak?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Whiteshirt]

so the rumors about xbone reserving GPU/CPU resources for Kinect/OS were true. Damn NeoGaf, you scary good with digging up those rumors from way back when

Its something you can kind of infer. I don't think there was any real rumour regarding ~10% being reserved but ElTorro constantly made good points why it would be the case.

They have Snap, which has a lot of content that would likely use hardware acceleration. They can either use dedicated hardware for it, which they never mentioned, or use part of the GPU for it. If they use the GPU for it, they can either reserve a certain amount of the GPU to ensure smooth gameplay and snapped content or have the framerate tank when you snap a video next to an active game.

 

[DoubleTake]

All this confirms to me is that a Kinectless SKU is coming...

 

[Skeff]

Wouldn't it just be software optimization of the OS?

Not for any amount that would make a difference, If someone is making an app, they're making it knowing they have 10% of the GPU. Once app's are being made to these guidelines, there's not really much they can do, sure maybe some optomizations to get it down to 9% but that's it.

For this to be relevant in any meaningful way they'd need to claw back a lot more than 1% of their GPU.

 

[Sirolf]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

Yes it's blatantly obvious...

 

[FranXico]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

It might sound like it, but I don't think that's the case. IMHO, RL, as a fervent XBox fanboy, has a position of influence as the DF editor and uses it for his personal cause. These editorial/advertorials being the result.

 

[gofreak]

That's one way to spin confirmation of a 10% GPU reserve, I guess.

 

[Cyborg]

So 10% more for Xbone makes the PS4 only 40% faster?

 

[Zincalloy]

Don't ruin the balance!

Win.

 

[AdmiralPain]

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Yes it's blatantly obvious...

Another quality MS press release written by Richard Leadbetter.

These days I just look at the byline, see his name, and then close the tab.

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

You guys really need to get off your stupidly high, biased high horse.

 

[Prince Vultan]

Leadbetter?

Leadbetter.

 

[amstradcpc]

If they go on unlocking the thing in the end it will transform into a R9-290X.

 

[Metfanant]

how do they plan to do that without reducing the amount of resources available to snap mode apps? I guess most apps you'd be likely to snap would be data driven stuff - skype, IE, NFL fantasy league etc, which wouldn't need much GPU. Maybe they could make it so any games/graphics intensive apps aren't snappable next to a game?

i would imagine the same way Sony plans to reduce the reserved memory for the OS...optimization over time...

obviously, the only way to give developers the entire 10% back is to remove the "snap" feature altogether...but i doubt that happens...i can only imagine a scenario where maybe half is given back to developers...

UNLESS MS wants to allow the developers to choose if "snap" is enabled during their games...could be a tricky situation there and i doubt it happens...

So 10% more for Xbone makes the PS4 only 40% faster?

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

i dont see it that way at all...the "paper specs" are all raw numbers...1.84Tflops vs 1.31Tflops, etc...etc...etc...when in reality the Xbone reserves 10% of that power for the OS features...meaning in theory youre looking at what 1.18Tflops available to developers on the Xbone?...giving back the 10% only brings the Xbone BACK IN LINE with the "paper specs" battle...

 

[Barzul]

Thread already getting derailed.

 

[TheExecutive]

So basically all this is saying was the X1 was weaker than we thought in the first place? It doesn't change the specs but it does show a change in attitude at MS. They are up shits creek and they know it.

 

[Dragonborn]

You guys really need to get off your stupidly high, biased high horse.

They're not wrong. I avoid DF nowadays

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Kotaku confirmed the 10% GPU reserve months ago what are you people talking about? There was no "rumor" suggested by someone on this forum, it was an official proven fact from the beginning. It was the article that described the multiple power states of the console.

 

[Elvin Atombender]

It feels like every time Digital Foundry mention PS4 now it's something like "The PS4 is slightly better BUT...".

 

[tkalamba]

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

Recent PS4 news? What did I miss? I've been too busy playing GTA V to keep up.

 

[vpance]

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

Not shrinking. Only confirming what we expected. Everyone was running with PS4 at 40% GPU advantage with 1.84TF vs 1.31TF. Now we know it's actually 1.18TF that's available for Xbone.

 

[jet1911]

Both companies will likely reduce the reserves and memory footprint over time. I wonder if they'll cut any features to allow for this, or if it's just through optimisation?

Probably optimisation, like we saw this gen. I hope anyway.