This. All it tells us is that Microsoft locked up that power in the first place
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Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
This. All it tells us is that Microsoft locked up that power in the first place
Chobel
Member
Nope you have total 1.31 in which 10% are reserved, so games have only 1.18 for now.
ChainsawFilms
Member
It would need nowhere near that. At most, you'd reserve a bit of fillrate to alpha the dashboard over the game [now in the background]. When you're in the dash, the framerate of the game in the background has no impact on you, so if you drop a few frames, so be it. So really, you've no need to reserve any GPU. with the 2 reserved CPU cores being that enough for anything you need to do.
la flama blanca
Banned
People that argue that these articles aren't money hatted in some manner are freakin' dumb as hell.
I'd say even less considering the console doesn't have to deal with snap and kinect..
10% of xb1 gpu = 7% of PS4's.
It's only natural that kinect uses a little gpu ressources because it deals with image analysis and it isn't free.
So currently:
Xbone: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
Xbone: 768 Shaders
Xbone: 48 Texture units
Xbone: 16 ROPS
Xbone: 2 ACE/ 16 queues
PS4: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues +400%
Looks unbalanced to me.
Xbone: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
Xbone: 768 Shaders
Xbone: 48 Texture units
Xbone: 16 ROPS
Xbone: 2 ACE/ 16 queues
PS4: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues +400%
Looks unbalanced to me.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
it's optimistic to think PS4 doesn't have any reservations for its own system...
Vita games freeze when you go back to the dashboard. I don't think PS4 games will have the same restriction. MMOs, for example, shouldn't freeze when they go to the dashboard. If the game is doing some sort of GPGPU for updates during the frame, then there's no way to guarantee a snappy dashboard with a game running in the background without some sort of GPU time slicing.
The video doesn't really show things either way. It can be accomplished with both methods, and in any event even if the GPU time slicing is reserved, the OS need not actually eat its slice if it doesn't need to render the dashboard.
babyghost853
Member
Finally someone sees it, think there was one other poster in this thread that noticed it too.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
There's never been a doubt in my mind... as soon as the retail numbers start coming in, they'll start cooking it up... i'm guessing... they'll announce it around march/april... stating that they have listened to the feedback and have come to realize that kinect is not for everyone, and that they'll be giving all customers an option to decide... or some such horse manure.
Now why would they wanna think like that huh?
Nightengale
Member
It's not really, considering how it was with the Vita.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
It's optimistic, but it's what we know. At best, we could take out the same 10% off the gpu and do the same comparison. The advantage remains, however.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Honestly, I think MS should simply just avoid arguments about the power discrepancy between the PS4 and Xbone.
They really need to just focus on games. Stick to talking about games and how graphics/power don't mean everything.
They can't win a measuring stick battle with the PS4. It has a better RAM setup w/ more bandwidth, 50% more CU's over the Xbone's setup, twice the ROPs, more ACEs, etc... there's no way to spin it. Sony has them on the hardware battle. Focus on games and games alone. That's really what matters anyways.
They really need to just focus on games. Stick to talking about games and how graphics/power don't mean everything.
They can't win a measuring stick battle with the PS4. It has a better RAM setup w/ more bandwidth, 50% more CU's over the Xbone's setup, twice the ROPs, more ACEs, etc... there's no way to spin it. Sony has them on the hardware battle. Focus on games and games alone. That's really what matters anyways.
But even with GPGPU, the game would be using considerably less GPU, meaning it would free up enough GPU to display the Menu.
The GPU does not have to be reduced to 0% load to display the UI.
CPU and RAM, certainly, GPU maybe not.
So they are reserving roughly 5 iPhone 5 GPUs (25.5GFLOPS) worth of floating point operations per second for the OS and apps, if I'm doing my math right. Yeah, I think they can probably safely lower that reservation over time without impacting app performance appreciably.
They can still talk about how their games look great. They just need to stop bringing up the power gap.
Was the two reserved core news confirmed? Beside GG's slide.
10% out of 1.84 is 184 Gflop for OS rendering. That is almost current gen GPU power which rendered games like GOW3.
That would be probably best interactive animated OS created with open world and multiplayer. Objective: Reach Options > Network. Summoning system from DS and your friends avatars would play as enemies.
WordsintheWater
Member
This is disappointing for someone like me who couldn't care less about Kinect, but I am glad that probably by the time I get this console more will be freed up for the GPU.
When I see comparisons like this I just further wonder how Microsoft dropped the ball on the specs so badly. The ironic thing is that the PS4 is not even that powerful. It's just the Xbox One looks under-powered comparatively.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Now its up to devs to not try and achieve parity for the sake of parity
Everything just seems spin after spin atm and Eurogamer seems to be championing it, but realistically it may be to try to target the casuals and core but the contradiction is that in reality its the tech friendly and hardcore that will read or interpret those articles and see through the 10% increase fud when really all its done is confirming its 10% minus, trying to get 10% back.
No, we also know the slide wasn't on the final hardware as they were not using the audio chip at all.
You're forgetting skeletal tracking/facial recognition/etc for Kinect. I don't know how much GPGPU that takes out of the 10%, but it's a factor as well.
You forgot Kinect. Creating skeleton out of few types of images is not really task that could be done on any mobile. That beside speech recognition, gesture etc.
B_Boss
Member
Ahh I see, thanks.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Didn't even think of that, really.
Anyway, the point was that they would need to use something like 35% of gpu on the OS to reach the 1.18 tflops, the same number as 90% of the xbox gpu.
B_Boss
Member
Relatively speaking....depends on context and standards used in judgement.
something fishy
Member
every bit of news makes me less likely to ever buy an xbox again.
farewell MS, you were good until Pete Moore left.
farewell MS, you were good until Pete Moore left.
Primedoughnut
Banned
Actually Cyber it's more to do with MS going cheap on the ram, that's the real crux.
Because MS chose DDR3 and Sony GDDR5 MS had to put the ESRAM in to compensate for the difference in bandwidths, this chewed into their silicon budget for the GPU hence less ROP's, Shaders & ACES... it's really sad that one of the richest companies on the planet chose a bargain basement option for it's memory.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
On paper the PS4 is around 50% faster. Taking into account that the X1 uses only 90% of it's potential power for games, the gap just got bigger (but it 'might' be reduced 'slightly' in the future)
I will feed the trolls (and people who read only stuff in OP) and answer the most asked question here.
"Why does Leadbetter seem so soft/apologetic/MS man e.t.c.?"
You see, there's quotes in the article. Know what they mean? no? It was an INTERVIEW!
And well... you know, people tend not to talk to you, when you're an ass and say stuff like "you system SUCKS, now answer me why" they'll probably say "F**k you" and be done with it.
As to why no Sony articles? I think Sony just does not feel the need to talk to anybody.
So the question is simple, Do you want to get to know new stuff, but you have to filter MS PR stuff out of it, since it's a QUOTE FFS, or would you prefer not to know it at all?
On this note, I've done my civic duty, and you can continue your quest of ignorance.
"Why does Leadbetter seem so soft/apologetic/MS man e.t.c.?"
You see, there's quotes in the article. Know what they mean? no? It was an INTERVIEW!
And well... you know, people tend not to talk to you, when you're an ass and say stuff like "you system SUCKS, now answer me why" they'll probably say "F**k you" and be done with it.
As to why no Sony articles? I think Sony just does not feel the need to talk to anybody.
So the question is simple, Do you want to get to know new stuff, but you have to filter MS PR stuff out of it, since it's a QUOTE FFS, or would you prefer not to know it at all?
On this note, I've done my civic duty, and you can continue your quest of ignorance.
True. We don't know if the full Kinect API is running all the time, either, or just a subset.
Still, that's a lot of reserved math, so I don't doubt the claims that were made that they will be able to reduce it.
It is not. Beside superior additional ACE to pretty much every GPU on PC market we see here basically 7850-7870 here. That is mid tier GPU and PS4 GPU is clocked lower than PC GPUs
API naturally is different thing
Its being APU is naturally also different thing (no stronger APU on market)
Portugeezer
Member
Shit. I thought Kinect has its own processor so it didn't need to use the Xbone GPU.
We had a different perspective not long ago.
I still remember when 2-4GB's of RAM and a mid range PC specs was expected for next gen. PS4 surprised and was better than expected with 8GB GDDR5 and a decent graphics card; Xbone was no longer enough but too late for Microsoft to change.
It's all reserved all of the time, Microsoft don't want developers to choose between kinect or more power for a game, they've been talking about it for a long time.
I don't even care about the 180s power. Let me rephrase that, I care about the power of both consoles from a curious gamer standpoint. It doesn't bother me that it's underpowered compared to the PS4. What IS starting to agitate me is the complete lack of Kinect games. MS nerfed their console to push Kinect and that's fine because I like Kinect. But as of launch I'm looking forward to trying out Playroom and have nothing to look forward to on Kinect but KSR. That doesn't seem right.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
I just remembered that the PS4 also has a camera and will have voice and face recognition. Will that change anything in your calculations?
Imo 4GB of GDDR5 ram would still be amazing. We actually were talking that Sony will probably go for 2GB GDDR5 + 4/8GB DDR3. 4GB leak was shocker to us.
killatopak
Gold Member
Probably a case by case basis and not a reservation.
Depends how it is used, could be CPU based and already part of the potentiall 2 CPU cores reserved, could be a custom reservation per game, as it's an optional peripheral, I doubt it would have fixed GPU reservations during all games.
I dont think its deceptive..perhaps a bit optimistically stated, but they are indeed (working towards) giving their games more ooomph.
Perhaps they should tell us what the other side of this is though, less apps running, slower snapping?? etc??
It is not standard feature. Games that will use it like Singstar or other shit like that will cede part of CPU or GPU power to handle it. But that will depend from game to game. If developer won't use camera full power will be utilized by game.
Difference here is that Xbone will always use 10% of GPU and unknown amount of CPU power to use Kinect regardless of game.
I'd regard the PS4's GPU as a mid range GPU (maybe just scraping close to a high end one given the ram and GPGPU customisations), Xbox One's closer to low end. I agree that the ram situation exceeded expectations by a considerable degree, but the GPU and even more so the CPU situation, definitely did not.