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[beast786]

I'm pretty sure there is one out there I recall seeing that listed every title available for both consoles at launch.

Here it is:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706393&highlight=xbox+one+launch+lineup

That's for sure missing many games

I've found this to be a more exhaustive list. Filter by the continent to group all launch games together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PS4_games

It's generally free of errors (except NFS, which is coming a few days after launch for NA).

Holy crap 65 versus 7?

o_o

 

[Popup]

Gamers notice a difference in specs, whether it be in character builds, or in HW. Sure a casual might think that these two start with the same number of points to attribite, but casuals also take notice of price now, don't they?

Not from what I see? More than a fair share of 'gamers' are missing the point. Maybe it's denial.

The picture was supposed to demonstrate that resolution is not a general shortfall of the XBox One, it is the performance trade off that the developers decided to take given the 'points' available. You can spend the points however you like, but the point differences are still there.

The developers chose the resolution path to allow the game to run at a higher frame rate. The resolution difference may seem subtle but that difference requires power to achieve. The same devs could have downgraded the PS4's resolution to that of the XBox, freeing up resources to add more effects, creating a different display of the same disparities.

 

[viveks86]

That's for sure missing many games

Holy crap 65 versus 7?

o_o

Indeed. But you shouldn't consider indie titles as games. They are not :|

 

[mangochutney]

That's for sure missing many games




Holy crap 65 versus 7?

o_o

http://i.imgur.com/KVX6jb4.jpg

I think this shows the difference quite well.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

 

[sportz103]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

Forza 5 is native 1080p/60fps at launch.

PS4 will always have a graphical edge over XB1 on multiplat forms, probably 30-50% based on math here, but not by the 100+% on CoD. The gap will get smaller, but there will always be a gap.

 

[Espada]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

The Xbox One can render games at 1080p, just look at Forza 5. The question is how many concessions have been made to hit that resolution. In the case of Forza it doesn't have dynamic lighting and some other features found in other 1080p titles.

Developers can definitely make 1080p titles, they just have to sacrifice some other things to do it.

Edit: BTW, Cloud computing being used to help a console's performance ain't happening for a long time. The latency on that stuff makes it unfeasible for that kind of use.

 

[viveks86]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

Yes, it is most probably capable from a technical standpoint. But I wouldn't argue that infinity ward is lazy. If they were truly lazy, then they wouldn't have reached 1080p on the PS4. The issue has to do with not enough power to easily get to 1080p. The tools not being mature enough aggravates the problem.

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Doubt it. There is nothing Microsoft can do here, except improve tools. The cloud can hardly be used to improve any realtime processing capabilities. Improving resolution using the cloud would be near impossible for a long time

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Amongst many other things, yes. Easier to develop, more processing power, better suited RAM for graphics etc

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

My thoughts inline

 

[Sword Of Doom]

The Xbox One can render games at 1080p, just look at Forza 5. The question is how many concessions have been made to hit that resolution. In the case of Forza it doesn't have dynamic lighting and some other features found in other 1080p titles.

Developers can definitely make 1080p titles, they just have to sacrifice some other things to do it.

Of course. It's such a strange question to ask "can the Xbox one do 1080p? As if all games are identical

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Of course. It's such a strange question to ask "can the Xbox one do 1080p? As if all games are identical

All games aren't identical but still, it seems to struggle more to get there than its ps4 counterparts.

 

[Espada]

Of course. It's such a strange question to ask "can the Xbox one do 1080p? As if all games are identical

Yup. It's even stranger when you remember that even some Wii U games are 1080p, the Xbox One's ability to render games in that resolution was never in question. The hot question is whether it can comfortably reach it while employing the features of modern engines.

 

[Alchemy]

Forza 5 is native 1080p/60fps at launch.

PS4 will always have a graphical edge over XB1 on multiplat forms, probably 30-50% based on math here, but not by the 100+% on CoD. The gap will get smaller, but there will always be a gap.

The gap will get larger if anything thanks to the PS4's GPU compute advantages.

 

[funkystudent]

The Xbox One can render games at 1080p, just look at Forza 5. The question is how many concessions have been made to hit that resolution. In the case of Forza it doesn't have dynamic lighting and some other features found in other 1080p titles.

Developers can definitely make 1080p titles, they just have to sacrifice some other things to do it.

Forza totally has dynamic shadows. I dont know why people keep bringing that up.

I think the compromise for Forza 5 is most of the assets in the game look lifted from Forza 4 with some next gen teaks here and there,

Game still looks nice though. 1080p really helps make the little details pop which is important for those kind of games.

 

[NullPointer]

So from reading these ResolutionGate posts I get that the Xbox can't do 1080p with deferred rendering, and all the modern engines use deferred. Is deferred rendering synonymous with dynamic lighting, or does reverting to forward rendering sacrifice other effects too?

I'm not up on my graphics programming lingo, but what I managed to glean was that using deferred allows you to more efficiently deal with a lot more light sources.

Also, tiling gets brought up as something that was done to overcome similar issues on the xbox this gen, and that we might see a similar solution come out at some point. How likely is this? And when do people think we'll see it?

 

[CLEEK]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

There are some 1080p/60 launch games on the Xbone, but if you look at them, they all have pretty big graphical concessions to achieve that. No AA (in the case of Forza and Crimson Dragon, not sure about FIFA), basic static lighting (dynamic lighting is one of the major next gen effects that hasn't been possible up until now) and so on.

The 32MB of ESRAM is the absolute minimum to achieve 1080p. Adding AA and/or deferred rendering (needed for dynamic lighting, amongst other things) means that the 32MB isn't enough, so either they are dropped, or the resolution has to be reduced. This will improve over time once devs work out how to implement tiled rendering on the Xbone.

Offloading compute to the cloud will NEVER see improvements in graphics/frame rate/resolution. It can only be used for components that have a high tolerant for latency (AI, match making), but never for things that have to be done each frame.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Also, tiling gets brought up as something that was done this gen to overcome similar issues on the xbox this gen, and that we might see a similar solution come out at some point. How likely is this? And when do people think we'll see it?

I find that kinda sad for them to already have to find solutions for a console that hasn't even launched yet.

edit: I would have delayed this console and bumped the specs.

 

[Espada]

Forza totally has dynamic shadows. I dont know why people keep bringing that up.

I think the compromise for Forza 5 is most of the assets in the game look lifted from Forza 4 with some next gen teaks here and there,

Game still looks nice though. 1080p really helps make the little details pop which is important for those kind of games.

IIRC, the car shadows are dynamic while the ones on the tracks themselves are prebaked. Contrast that with something like DriveClub that has dynamic lighting.

 

[Metfanant]

I just wondered if anyone could help me out, some of this Xbox One stuff is confusing me slightly.

Is the Xbox One capable of doing native 1080p games from a technical standpoint? If so, has Infinity Ward just been lazy with doing the Xbox One version of their new game?

If it isn't, can Microsoft make up for it via this ESRAM or their cloud service?

Am i correct in thinking that the PS4 can do it fairly easily because of the GDDR5 over the DDR3 on Xbox One?

Thanks if you can help. I'm not really too good with the technical side.

Yes, the Xbone is capable of native 1080p...there is no question about that...but you have to look deeper than that...

The PS3 and 360 are capable of 1080p....the Wii is capable of 1080p..the question becomes...what sacrifices must you make to get there?

I am confident that the Xbone is NOT capable of matching the PS4 in like for like games at native 1080p...what I mean by this is if you have a multiplat game...running at 1080p on both consoles...you're going to have to make concessions on the Xbone version...

-lower quality textures
-lower frame rate
-less advanced lighting
-less aggressive(maybe no) AA
-lower quality shadows
-less particle effects

Etc...

This is why we are going to see the Xbone running games at lower resolutions...because the devs are going to want to keep the eye candy the same...so you drop resolution and upscale...

I don't think IW is being lazy...they are doing what they can with less powerful, more complicated hardware that has development tools that are less mature...

This will NOT (IMO) be made up for by esRAM or cloud computing...

The esRAM is a bandaid solution to try and make up for the slow memory bandwidth of the DDR3 memory...its also a bottleneck because its not big enough to do everything developers want to do with it...

 

[StealthGoblin]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

 

[NullPointer]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I don't think it needs to, since the whole expanse of that fast memory is directly available on the PS4, without jumping through hoops. You only have to tile your image when you're forced to break it down into small enough chunks to fit into the Xbox's wee tiny but super fast memory.

If I have that right.

 

[viveks86]

There are some 1080p/60 launch games on the Xbone, but if you look at them, they all have pretty big graphical concessions to achieve that. No AA (in the case of Forza and Crimson Dragon, not sure about FIFA), basic static lighting (dynamic lighting is one of the major next gen effects that hasn't been possible up until now) and so on.

Are you 100% certain? I've never been sure, and I'm even more confused by their latest video. This must have some AA going on, right?

 

[RoboPlato]

The gap will get larger if anything thanks to the PS4's GPU compute advantages.

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. If devs start using GPU compute a lot the visual differences may get smaller between the two versions but the PS4 could have more physics simulation going on in the world.

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

Pretty sure it can but it's integrated into the XBO API whereas it would need to be programmed by the devs for PS4. XBO is DirectX 11.1 compliant and PS4 is 11.2+ compliant. It's probably not as necessary on PS4 due to the RAM situation.

 

[viveks86]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

Why do you think PS4 can't do it? It does support tiled rendering AFAIK. It might not be needed for a while, though. The APIs may not be there yet (not sure) but the devs should be free to implement it themselves.

I don't think it needs to, since the whole expanse of that fast memory is directly available on the PS4, without jumping through hoops. You only have to tile your image when you're forced to break it down into small enough chunks to fit into the Xbox's wee tiny but super fast memory.

If I have that right.

I think that's accurate.

Also, since you brought up the forward vs deferred rendering question, here's a good read, in case you haven't read it already.

http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2011/01/18/forward-vs-deferred-rendering-whywhen-forward-rendering-still-matters/

 

[CLEEK]

So from reading these ResolutionGate posts I get that the Xbox can't do 1080p with deferred rendering, and all the modern engines use deferred. Is deferred rendering synonymous with dynamic lighting, or does reverting to forward rendering sacrifice other effects too?

Dynamic lighting (as in, multiple objects can be light sources and other objects react to that light) is one of the key benefits of deferred rendering.

A frame is rendered by two or three passes. The first pass calculates all the geometry, the final pass does the shading (lighting).

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Why is there a patch of high resolution road textures following the car around. You can see it clearly when it's in car footage (over the bonnet) ... and it's a square of textures that just ends abruptly in the front. It looks very odd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maYgydivvSw

 

[eddfromtheriver]

The gap will get larger if anything thanks to the PS4's GPU compute advantages.

This.

Forza maybe 1080p... but it's not doing anything next gen worthy... the tech in it is sub-par... and jaggies in it are bad... now Ryse does look better, but it runs at 900p. So it makes you second guess XBO's tech chops in the now and most importantly... in the future.

 

[RoboPlato]

I think that's accurate.

Also, since you brought up the forward vs deferred rendering question, here's a good read, in case you haven't read it already.

http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2011/01/18/forward-vs-deferred-rendering-whywhen-forward-rendering-still-matters/

I think Forward+ rendering (a combination of forward and Deferred) is going to become commonplace as this gen goes on. Lots of efficiency benefits to that. RAD's doing it for The Order.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

To me the resolution difference is most noticeable with lots of foliage.

Here's a quick Far Cry 3 comparison with no AA. 720p looks a lot worse in motion though, that's for sure.

I suggest opening the images in a new browser tab and switching between them there.

Wow 720p is making me want to vomit.

 

[Espada]

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. If devs start using GPU compute a lot the visual differences may get smaller between the two versions but the PS4 could have more physics simulation going on in the world.


Pretty sure it can but it's integrated into the XBO API whereas it would need to be programmed by the devs for PS4. XBO is DirectX 11.1 compliant and PS4 is 11.2+ compliant.

I'm actually interested to see how much developers use GPU compute. Both consoles can do it as its part of GCN by default, but Cerny revealed to Gamasutra that they requested quite a bit more for the PS4. At the very least we can expect efficiency gains since they can offload a good amount of work off of the weak CPUs in these consoles.

 

[Lord Error]

Are you 100% certain? I've never been sure, and I'm even more confused by their latest video. This must have some AA going on, right?

That has supersampling from 1080p to whatever the size of that gif is. You have to post some screens from the original video without changing resolution if you want anyone to be able to answer that.

This video looks like it has no AA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maYgydivvSw at least on the edges that are not completely destroyed by youtube compression.

 

[CoG]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

The PS3 and 360 could do "it". See MegaTextures ala Rage. The DX 11.2 feature is pretty much the same implementation AFAICT.

 

[HTupolev]

So from reading these ResolutionGate posts I get that the Xbox can't do 1080p with deferred rendering, and all the modern engines use deferred. Is deferred rendering synonymous with dynamic lighting, or does reverting to forward rendering sacrifice other effects too?

Deferred rendering is not synonymous with dynamic lighting. It's just that deferred rendering tends to permit you to handle dynamic lights fairly efficiently.

It's not true that the XBO can't do deferred with 1080p. It will probably depend on what you want to do with your deferred model. Destiny uses a deferred model, and it would be able to fit its buffering scheme into ~25MB at 1080p. But Destiny only uses a slim 96 bits per pixel for its G-buffers (hey, gotta fit near-720p into that Xbox 360 eDRAM), while a lot of devs would really like to use 160+ bits per pixel for their next-gen shading. 160bpp will push you right to around 40MB.

 

[BrainZEROX]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

If I understood correctly, tiling is a work around made necessary because of the small amount of ESRAM on Xbox. It is not needed on PS4 because it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist on Sony's console. No ESRAM, no need to tile.

With that said, if you make use of virtual texturing, you can "tile" on PS4, It would probably even be more efficient than on XB1 because you wouldn't have to stream your data constantly from DDR3 to ESRAM.

 

[CLEEK]

Are you 100% certain? I've never been sure, and I'm even more confused by their latest video. This must have some AA going on, right?

A small GIF isn't the best source to see if there's AA!

If they have no implemented AA, it will be a post-process solution like FXAA which doesn't need the ESRAM frame buffer. But the last round of direct feed images I saw definitely had no AA. But that was a couple of weeks ago, so subject to change.

 

[Metfanant]

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. If devs start using GPU compute a lot the visual differences may get smaller between the two versions but the PS4 could have more physics simulation going on in the world.


Pretty sure it can but it's integrated into the XBO API whereas it would need to be programmed by the devs for PS4. XBO is DirectX 11.1 compliant and PS4 is 11.2+ compliant.

I disagree about GPGPU causing the gap to shrink...the PS4 has 18CU's...the Xbone has 12...

If all CU's are dedicated to rendering graphics that's a big gap...if you start to dedicate CU's for compute (maybe even the 14/4 split that is always talked about)...that still leaves the PS4 with 2 CU's excess for graphics...and thats only if you're not going to dedicate ANY CU's for compute on the Xbone...which would put it at a MASSIVE disadvantage...desvs must at least TRY to match some.of the resources for GPGPU on the Xbone...taking those resources from graphics...

 

[satam55]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

I seem to recall ps4 devkits having a newer version of direct x running on them than the xbox ones.

I'm not technical at all so excuse me if I've made any errors.

Why do you think PS4 can't do it? It does support tiled rendering AFAIK. It might not be needed for a while, though. The APIs may not be there yet (not sure) but the devs should be free to implement it themselves.



[/URL]

Tiles Resources can be done on the PS4:

RedGamingTech: Xbox One & Playstation 4 - Tiled Resources / Partially Resident Textures Explanation & Details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv_DqQw_uk

Sony's powerpoint from GDC Europe 2013 back in August:
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdceurope2013/Presentations/825424RichardStenson.pdf

 

[malfcn]

Were the crowds and fence popping in?

 

[viveks86]

That has supersampling from 1080p to whatever the size of that gif is. You have to post some screens from the original video without changing resolution if you want anyone to be able to answer that.

This video looks like it has no AA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maYgydivvSw at least on the edges that are not completely destroyed by youtube compression.

A small GIF isn't the best source to see if there's AA!

If they have no implemented AA, it will be a post-process solution like FXAA which doesn't need the ESRAM frame buffer. But the last round of direct feed images I saw definitely had no AA. But that was a couple of weeks ago, so subject to change.

Well here you go. Here's the direct feed of crappy youtube quality. There definitely is some aliasing, but I find it difficult to think there is no AA. I would imagine the IQ would be completely destroyed without it. The cockpit looks smooth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFEdHskMkq4

 

[Espada]

I disagree about GPGPU causing the gap to shrink...the PS4 has 18CU's...the Xbone has 12...

If all CU's are dedicated to rendering graphics that's a big gap...if you start to dedicate CU's for compute (maybe even the 14/4 split that is always talked about)...that still leaves the PS4 with 2 CU's excess for graphics...and thats only if you're not going to dedicate ANY CU's for compute on the Xbone...which would put it at a MASSIVE disadvantage...desvs must at least TRY to match some.of the resources for GPGPU on the Xbone...taking those resources from graphics...

Well, if you're interested in reading about the benefits/limitations of GPGPU in games, this is a nice read.

 

[NullPointer]

Deferred rendering is not synonymous with dynamic lighting. It's just that deferred rendering tends to permit you to handle dynamic lights fairly efficiently.

It's not true that the XBO can't do deferred with 1080p. It will probably depend on what you want to do with your deferred model. Destiny uses a deferred model, and it would be able to fit its buffering scheme into ~25MB at 1080p. But Destiny only uses a slim 96 bits per pixel for its G-buffers (hey, gotta fit near-720p into that Xbox 360 eDRAM), while a lot of devs would really like to use 160+ bits per pixel for their next-gen shading. 160bpp will push you right to around 40MB.

This is all good stuff. Thanks.

 

[RoboPlato]

I disagree about GPGPU causing the gap to shrink...the PS4 has 18CU's...the Xbone has 12...

If all CU's are dedicated to rendering graphics that's a big gap...if you start to dedicate CU's for compute (maybe even the 14/4 split that is always talked about)...that still leaves the PS4 with 2 CU's excess for graphics...and thats only if you're not going to dedicate ANY CU's for compute on the Xbone...which would put it at a MASSIVE disadvantage...desvs must at least TRY to match some.of the resources for GPGPU on the Xbone...taking those resources from graphics...

In my example I was talking about utilizing that on PS4 and not using it much on XBO which could lead to closer visuals but more world simulation on PS4. You also don't really dedicate entire CUs to compute functions, the ACEs fit the processes into places where the GPU isn't doing work. The added ACEs in the PS4 GPU will allow it to do considerably more compute tasks before taking away from visuals since it will be able to search out gaps easier.

 

[Vizzeh]

Has anyone discussed titled resources with dx11.2 yet?

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/x...from-32mb-to-6gb-worth-of-textures.453263349/

Yeah been discussed here a few times, that will leave less space for a frame buffer + X1's GPU apparently only supports 11.1 hardware (can be upgraded to 11.2 software but software only has stage 1 tiled resources) PS4 in comparison has hardware dx11.2 - stage 2 tiled support.


If they can make it work in X1 without too much cost of the frame buffer, it may help them. Need a 16mb target file.

 

[CLEEK]

Tiles Resources can be done on the PS4:

RedGamingTech: Xbox One & Playstation 4 - Tiled Resources / Partially Resident Textures Explanation & Details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv_DqQw_uk

Sony's powerpoint from GDC Europe 2013 back in August:
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdceurope2013/Presentations/825424RichardStenson.pdf

I'm probably out of my depth, so could be wrong, but Tiled Resources (aka partially resident texture) is different from Tiled Rendering.

Tiled Rendering is for when you have a small amount of fast embedded and slower main memory. Like in the 360 and the Xbone. As this doesn't apply to the PS4, it won't be needed.

In a typical tiled renderer, geometry must first be transformed into screen space and assigned to screen-space tiles. This requires some storage for the lists of geometry for each tile. In early tiled systems, this was performed by the CPU, but all modern hardware contains hardware to accelerate this step.

Once geometry is assigned to tiles, the GPU renders each tile separately to a small on-chip buffer of memory. This has the advantage that composition operations are cheap, both in terms of time and power. Once rendering is complete for a particular tile, the final pixel values for the whole tile are then written once to external memory. Also, since tiles can be rendered independently, the pixel processing lends itself very easily to parallel architectures with multiple tile rendering engines.

Tiles are typically small (16x16 and 32x32 pixels are popular tile sizes), although some architectures use much larger on-chip buffers and can be said to straddle the divide between tiled rendering and immediate mode ("sort last") rendering.

 

[Metfanant]

In my example I was talking about utilizing that on PS4 and not using it much on XBO which could lead to closer visuals but more world simulation on PS4. You also don't really dedicate entire CUs to compute functions, the ACEs fit the processes into places where the GPU isn't doing work. The added ACEs in the PS4 GPU will allow it to do considerably more compute tasks before taking away from visuals since it will be able to search out gaps easier.

I understand the concept of fine grain compute...I'm just saying there is just no scenario I see where devs dig into GPGPU that deeply on he PS4 and just abandon it on the Xbone...

 

[viveks86]

Tiles Resources can be done on the PS4:

RedGamingTech: Xbox One & Playstation 4 - Tiled Resources / Partially Resident Textures Explanation & Details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fv_DqQw_uk

Sony's powerpoint from GDC Europe 2013 back in August:
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdceurope2013/Presentations/825424RichardStenson.pdf

Thanks! Speaking of RedGamingTech, here is an article & video on the ESRAM topic:

http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-one-esram-720p-why-its-causing-a-resolution-bottleneck-analysis/

 

[HawksWinStanley]

do me a favor....the jacked up DF images are fine...

- go to the picture of the "hair" compare PC/PS4/Xbone

now answer this question

- which of the three images looks out of place?

this becomes a common theme when you actually look at the comparison images...all of the textures across all 3 versions are identical...what you're seeing is that the Xbone is overcompensating for its lack of resolution with a sharpening filter...it seems to bring out "more detail" in textures...but it also adds all sorts of artifacts, halos, pixel crawling, and aliasing to the images...


the PC and PS4 have much natural looking images...the PC benefitting from the added resolution of being 1080p vs 900p...

ive seen others say that there is some motion blur coming through in the PS4 shots as well that is not present in the Xbone version

Sorry, nothing about the hair in the PS4 version looks natural whatsoever. All of the textures in those comparison shots with that specific guy have awful textures on the PS4 version. That doesn't look like something that could be fixed with the sharpness setting on my tv. It looks more like a smudge than hair.

 

[Metfanant]

Sorry, nothing about the hair in the PS4 version looks natural whatsoever. All of the textures in those comparison shots with that specific guy have awful textures on the PS4 version. That doesn't look like something that could be fixed with the sharpness setting on my tv. It looks more like a smudge than hair.

Then lets make this clear...what you're arguing is the Xbone version looks better than the PC version?

 

[Liabe Brave]

So this tiled rendering thing, why can't the ps4 do this?

Also, tiling gets brought up as something that was done to overcome similar issues on the xbox this gen, and that we might see a similar solution come out at some point. How likely is this? And when do people think we'll see it?

I think it's possible we may already be seeing it, in Ryse. In any case, tiled rendering isn't necessarily going to close the performance gap with PS4, it could just shift it to other things. Resolution would go up--you're no longer limited to the size of the eSRAM for your buffers--but other things could go down. That's because the extra buffers would have to go in One's main memory, which is vastly slower than either eSRAM or the PS4's memory. So you'd get more pixels, but the shading calculations you can run on each pixel are reduced.

I don't know enough to say what the tradeoffs might actually look like, and in any case there'd be user preference involved. On PC, some folks like higher resolution with fewer effects and some like better effects at the expense of lower resolution.

As for the comparison with the 360's tiled rendering, there's something to keep in mind. On 360, when you had to pull from main memory instead of eDRAM, you dropped from 32 GB/s to 22.4 GB/s bandwidth, a reduction of 30%. On One, using tiled render targets drops you from 109 GB/s to 68 GB/s, a reduction of 37.6%. So tiled rendering actually hits your performance harder on the newer machine.

 

[bishoptl]

I guess. Unless you count the cool Kinect 2.0 tech, the dedicated servers, and the brand new snap/multimedia capabilities, and a year of free XBOX Fitness. Also it has a better launch lineup.

If you're only in it for the hard resolution of the games, then you're right. PS4 is absolutely the better value.

awesome

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Thanks for your feedback. Next time take the time to elaborate. It's an opinion.

Hardly anything to say or argue, when you state "if you're in it for the resolution of games, buy a ps4. everything else, x1".