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Why does representation in video games get some people riled up?

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R

Rexatality

Member
So this RDR2 trainwreck of a thread forced me to make this topic because this is something I've been questioning myself a while ago when it comes to video games.

Whenever video games tries to add more diversity through people of color or women, some people throughout the internet get their jimmies rustled and act like as Es-Jay-Doubleyoos are ruining their ''precious'' video games. And it doesn't help that there a certain amount people on GAF who are in some ways or another scoff at representation for video games or be like this: ''I don't mind blacks, LGBT or female characters as long they don't shoehorn it'', ''What's the big deal? None of it matters.'', ''Artistic integrity!'', and so on. I just can't help but think that dozens of people on Gaming GAF are ignorant. Or worse, racist/sexist and they just don't know it.

So, help me understand, GAF. What makes adding minorities (in terms of race or sexuality) or women in video games that makes some people riled up?
 
R

RichiRamjag

Member
As a black guy, I want the characters to be meaningful and well written rather than tossed in and just "there" (typically in a stereotypical fashion). Diversity is definitely important though and representation is often a great first step at expanding mindsets and making diversity the norm, so I don't complain about it though.

I think others sometimes feel that what they're used to may not quite be "theirs" anymore and change scares them and it leads to complaints. The fuss over the Hellfighters and the female protagonist in battlefield really annoys the hell out of me.
 
Y

Yurikerr

This post isn't by me, it's by a guy with the same username as me.
What happened on the RDR2 thread? Was it as shameful as the GTA: San Andreas "can't related to black guys" thread?
 
C

Chindogg

Member
There's a sentiment that being inclusive means white guys being removed from games. It's a faulty sentiment, but it's certainly there.

On the other hand, there are some who will jump the gun and criticize a game based on it's poster alone, making some of us scratch our heads.
 
D

DarkChronic

Member
Rexatality said:
Whenever video games tries to add more diversity through people of color or women, some people throughout the internet get their jimmies rustled and act like as Es-Jay-Doubleyoos are ruining their ''precious'' video games.
Click to expand...

I think you have it backwards. It's people getting riled up when there ISN'T diversity in a game.

As a white dude I've never had a problem with who or what I play as in a video game, but enough people seem to take issue so I know I need to recognize it as a real problem that needs to be addressed.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
People don't like things they enjoy being changed to accommodate people they don't like. The trick is to not hate other people in the first place, then it is of no consequence.

DarkChronic said:
I think you have it backwards. It's people getting riled up when there ISN'T diversity in a game.
Click to expand...

I think OP is asking about why people against it get riled up, rather than the people that want it getting annoyed they don't get it.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
I've found that it's rather the exact opposite. People tend to get all riled up because some developer DARED to make a game that didn't have a black, asian, latino, gay, trans character in it. How racist/sexist/idiotic can they be!?!?1

It's pretty frustrating. Can we judge things on their own merits rather than what we think they should be? If I was a developer who spent years making a character who I felt passionate about only to get shat on and called racist I'd be pretty disappointed.
 
A

AntiFacebook

Member
What makes people so riled up when a game does NOT have representation of minorities?
I don't mind when a game does have "diversity", as you call it(though it's just bullshit IMO), but I hate it when a game gets a lot of shit just because it doesn't
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
DarkChronic said:
I think you have it backwards. It's people getting riled up when there ISN'T diversity in a game.

As a white dude I've never had a problem with who or what I play as in a video game, but enough people seem to take issue so I know I need to recognize it as a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Click to expand...

That's how it looked to me as well. More people were complaining about the lack of their so called "diversity".

AntiFacebook said:
What makes people so riled up when a game does NOT have representation of minorities?
Click to expand...

Confuses me as well.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Because a very large portion of people on the internet are whiny man-children

Edit: This alone is a bit harsh. I get why an overabundance of certain kinds of characters can get tired but at the same time it's what the creators want to do so I say just roll with it.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
RichiRamjag said:
As a black guy, I want the characters to be meaningful and well written rather than tossed in and just "there". Diversity is definitely important though and representation is often a great first step at expanding mindsets and making diversity the norm, so I don't complain about it though.

I think others sometimes feel that what they're used to may not quite be "theirs" anymore and change scares them and it leads to complaints. The fuss over the Hellfighters and the female protagonist in battlefield really annoys the hell out of me.
Click to expand...
I mean this implies that having a black main character is unnatural and that a white character can just be there. Which is a whole different issue in and of itself, is the assumption that the default is white male between the ages of 18-50 with brown hair. The more we normalize female and black protagonists, regardless of writing, (Mafia III has the best story in a triple A game this year but expecting that quality out of everything or else the protagonist might as well be white is a terrible mindset), the better off gaming will be in the long run. So yea, women and black protagonists can just be there. Just like how the protagonist of Gears 4 is laughably uninteresting since he's pretty much the default white male cocky hero.
 
R

Rexatality

Member
KorrZ said:
I've found that it's rather the exact opposite. People tend to get all riled up because some developer DARED to make a game that didn't have a black, asian, latino, gay, trans character in it. How racist/sexist/idiotic can they be!?!?1

It's pretty frustrating. Can we judge things on their own merits rather than what we think they should be? If I was a developer who spent years making a character who I felt passionate about only to get shat on and called racist I'd be pretty disappointed.
Click to expand...

I think people can like a game but criticize at its shortcomings. Its not that hard.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Westerns are extra funny in this regard since our pop culture-derived perception of the time period stems from 20th century cinema which was thoroughly whitewashed.
 
Muffdraul

Muffdraul

Member
I want developers to come up with their own vision and bring it to fruition. If a developer wants to give their games more diversity and representation, that's great. If they don't, I'm OK with that. It's their project, their creation, their business.
 
P

purseowner

Member
I always find it baffling and closed-minded, OP.

I'm a white male, and whilst I can't say I relate especially to most white male protagonists, I am very much 'catered for' by the medium. But I play games for escapism and have no interest in playing as someone who resembles myself. I want refreshing stories that widen and challenge my perspectives. I'll always play as a female character when there's an option, as it goes a small way to addressing the imbalance in my consumption of the medium.

My main question to those who are anti-diversity is not why they're so discriminatory and elitist, but this: Why do you play games?
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
KorrZ said:
I've found that it's rather the exact opposite. People tend to get all riled up because some developer DARED to make a game that didn't have a black, asian, latino, gay, trans character in it. How racist/sexist/idiotic can they be!?!?1

It's pretty frustrating. Can we judge things on their own merits rather than what we think they should be? If I was a developer who spent years making a character who I felt passionate about only to get shat on and called racist I'd be pretty disappointed.
Click to expand...
Judging a game for reinforcing a status quo is judging it on it's own merit. The state of writing in video games is nowhere near interesting enough that the default white male hero archetypes are some sacred cow that need to be protected.

Psoelberg said:
"When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression"
Click to expand...
Basically, people are taking criticism for a lack of diversity to be equivalent to holding a game developer at gun point and forcing them to make characters they don't wanna make, as in, something other than a white dude who's somewhere between the range of old and cynical or young and cocky. And not just something to make creators exercise more creativity in the stories they create.
 
F

Fahzgoolin

Banned
I prefer contextual consistency over mere representation for the sake of goodwill. That would be my main gripe.

I also don't like when any media seems to try too hard in proclaiming a controversial/divisive topic when it doesn't flow or fit with the source material.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
Rexatality said:
I think people can like a game but criticize at its shortcomings. Its not that hard.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. It's the approach oftentimes though that makes people on both sides start to lash out.

All too often you see people as I said throwing out that developers are racist etc. which I don't think can be shielded as "criticism".
 
letmetrythisname

letmetrythisname

Member
I feel that opposition to diverse casts in video games is certainly narrow-minded and ignorant. I'm not riled up by representation at all. I am, however, a big whiny baby who is riled up by the shitflinging that occurs on both sides when the discussion gets heated, like in the RDR2 thread.
 
G

Gorillaz

Member
In regards to RDR2 I'm willing to wait and see what they come up with. Don't think that pic will tell everything about the game in terms of representation. I''ll give R the benefit of the doubt on this one.


I'm still on the side that says those 7(marston included) are the villains and we haven't seen the protag yet anyway.
Yurikerr said:
What happened on the RDR2 thread? Was it as shameful as the GTA: San Andreas "can't related to black guys" thread?
Click to expand...
That thread even years later is hilarious in retrospect of the game we got. Dudes getting lost in their feelings.
 
stargateheaven

stargateheaven

Member
i'm all for varied characters..

But people over-react way too much, and then developers have to respond. We'll end up with characters so far from the original design like this.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
AntiFacebook said:
What makes people so riled up when a game does NOT have representation of minorities?
I don't mind when a game does have "diversity", as you call it(though it's just bullshit IMO), but I hate it when a game gets a lot of shit just because it doesn't
Click to expand...

Because in 2016 there are very few excuses left for developers to not make an effort to include prominent characters that are both women and ethnic minorities in their games.

Nearly half of gamers are female. Movies like Fast and Furious 7 make billions because their diverse cast has immense global appeal. Pretty much every large AAA team has people of all genders, sexual orientation, and cultural background on their staff.

So again, when yet another game is shown off with its cast looking like a bag of marshmallows then it's only natural to question why they couldn't even make an effort
 
B

BlizzKrut

Banned
purseowner said:
I always find it baffling and closed-minded, OP.

I'm a white male, and whilst I can't say I relate especially to most white male protagonists, I am very much 'catered for' by the medium. But I play games for escapism and have no interest in playing as someone who resembles myself. I want refreshing stories that widen and challenge my perspectives. I'll always play as a female character when there's an option, as it goes a small way to addressing the imbalance in my consumption of the medium.

My main question to those who are anti-diversity is not why they're so discriminatory and elitist, but this: Why do you play games?
Click to expand...

That's not directed to me but that question doesn't make a lot of sense, what does the reason for playing a videogame (supposedly for fun, relaxation, etc...) has to do with race and discrimination?
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
KorrZ said:
I've found that it's rather the exact opposite. People tend to get all riled up because some developer DARED to make a game that didn't have a black, asian, latino, gay, trans character in it. How racist/sexist/idiotic can they be!?!?1

It's pretty frustrating. Can we judge things on their own merits rather than what we think they should be? If I was a developer who spent years making a character who I felt passionate about only to get shat on and called racist I'd be pretty disappointed.
Click to expand...
Cause there are so many of those games right?
 
A

Aters

Member
I don't find characters in videogames are "shoehorned". They are bad already, adding a stereotype gay won't make the games worse, not that it makes the game better either. I won't play a game just because the protagonist is Asian.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
KorrZ said:
I agree with you. It's the approach oftentimes though that makes people on both sides start to lash out.

All too often you see people as I said throwing out that developers are racist etc. which I don't think can be shielded as "criticism".
Click to expand...
An example? And racism can be subtle as well, like arguing that white protagonists are the default or that diversity is just a checklist/forced/has to be well written. All are subtle forms of racism meant to preserve the status quo.

stargateheaven said:
i'm all for varied characters..

But people over-react way too much, and then developers have to respond. We'll end up with characters so far from the original design like this.
Click to expand...
Consider that the vast majority of game characters go through a shit ton of iteration before they end up with a final design.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
DarkChronic said:
I think you have it backwards. It's people getting riled up when there ISN'T diversity in a game.

As a white dude I've never had a problem with who or what I play as in a video game, but enough people seem to take issue so I know I need to recognize it as a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's both. The Sarkessian videos are enough to prove that much.

Psoelberg said:
"When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression"
Click to expand...

This is super true.
 
R

RichiRamjag

Member
Crossing Eden said:
I mean this implies that having a black main character is unnatural and that a white character can just be there. Which is a whole different issue in and of itself, is the assumption that the default is white male between the ages of 18-50 with brown hair. The more we normalize female and black protagonists, regardless of writing, (Mafia III has the best story in a triple A game this year but expecting that quality out of everything or else the protagonist might as well be white is a terrible mindset), the better off gaming will be in the long run. So yea, women and black protagonists can just be there. Just like how the protagonist of Gears 4 is laughably uninteresting since he's pretty much the default white male cocky hero.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I said if you kept reading. Please do not try to school me on racial issues. I really only meant that I'd like to see more well written black characters outside of typical stereotypical roles that sometimes get tossed in. It's very frustrating to see that so often and it only further spreads negative stereotypes. Thankfully, we've been seeing less of that lately.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Extremists on all sides are dumb, no matter the issue.

Diversity just to add diversity without thought is dumb and can be offensive, but it's also dumb to not include it because the creators might not be comfortable with it.

It likely all goes back to the lack of diversity in games development on the AAA scale, and that's a real shame.
 
D

DownGrader

Member
AntiFacebook said:
What makes people so riled up when a game does NOT have representation of minorities?
Click to expand...

Personally, I want to see faithful representation of minorities in more media because I'm living in a society which is, like, almost completely consists of white heterosexual people. Even being one of those people, I feel I have a very limited viewpoint, and I'd like to expand it - and I do want more pieces of media to help me to do so.

Damn Silly said:
Which is a bit of a shame because - as a straight, white male - it's a bit bloody boring.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I feel kind of the same.
 
D

Damn Silly

Member
"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." seems at least a little appropriate.

People are comfortable with most video game characters being white, straight males. So when people challenge that, some can feel feel uncomfortable.

Which is a bit of a shame because - as a straight, white male - it's a bit bloody boring.
 
Necron

Necron

Member
KorrZ said:
I've found that it's rather the exact opposite. People tend to get all riled up because some developer DARED to make a game that didn't have a black, asian, latino, gay, trans character in it. How racist/sexist/idiotic can they be!?!?1

It's pretty frustrating. Can we judge things on their own merits rather than what we think they should be? If I was a developer who spent years making a character who I felt passionate about only to get shat on and called racist I'd be pretty disappointed.
Click to expand...

I thought the same whilst reading the RDR2 thread, to be honest.
 
I

Izcarielo

Banned
DarkChronic said:
I think you have it backwards. It's people getting riled up when there ISN'T diversity in a game.

As a white dude I've never had a problem with who or what I play as in a video game, but enough people seem to take issue so I know I need to recognize it as a real problem that needs to be addressed.
Click to expand...

This is what happened in the RDR2 thread, not what the OP seems to believe.

EDIT: post nº10 seemingly was the first one to notice the absence of diversity

"All-male cast with 6 out of 7 being white dudes :/

what the fuck Rockstar"

I mean, RDR2 just got announced, how cant you not be excited about that? how come the first thing you write about the game is that?
 
U

User123456

Member
On one hand I am annoyed at people who get riled up when a game is or isn't diverse because I legitimately want to respect the artistic vision of the creators.

On the other hand the artistic vision argument is pretty much only valid for indies because everything else goes through several planet-deep layers of soulless bureaucracy and marketing to maximize marketability and profitability, artistic vision be damned.

I don't know how to solve this problem. Ideally I would like to solve the second problem first, though.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Various reasons I suppose:

People upset at anything seen as catering to "SJW'S"!!!!

Some are selfish and would rather everything pander to them.

Some are uncomfortable with the idea of what they may see as a developer being forced (pressured may be a better word) into it rather than going with what they may want. Personally, I kinda feel like this on an individual basis, but you at least have to have loud voices when it's an industry-wide problem. At the very least, a developer should think through 'Can this character be 'Insert some representation usually ignored'.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Fahzgoolin said:
I prefer contextual consistency over mere representation for the sake of goodwill. That would be my main gripe.

I also don't like when any media seems to try too hard in proclaiming a controversial/divisive topic when it doesn't flow or fit with the source material.
Click to expand...

So you mean like Idris being Bond?
 
P

Platy

Member
AntiFacebook said:
What makes people so riled up when a game does NOT have representation of minorities?
I don't mind when a game does have "diversity", as you call it(though it's just bullshit IMO), but I hate it when a game gets a lot of shit just because it doesn't
Click to expand...

of the top of my head

1) it shows that only white people can be hero, becoming a shit reference and remembering that you have less chances just because of who you are
2) it shows that the developers think they live in this almost arian life without any minorities anywhere so it is AT LEAST creppy
3) it usualy means that people are either whitewashing history or saying that their game happened in a future post-racial extermination
4) it is fun to make people see themselfs in games that are supposed to be scapism
5) it usualy means that there was no minorities in the process of game development because nobody was like "hey .. isn't it weird that we do not have ANY minority ?"
6) shows that games are not as creative as they can be because the amount of white male hetero cis protagonists shows that creative people are afraid of being ... creative. You randomly choose a protagonist (because in 99% of the story any of those characteristics matter) and you got the same result as everyone ?
7) it helps with immersion of everything else that is not white hetero cis male. and TRUST ME, most part of the world is NOT white, hetero, cis AND male.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
The real actual reason most people get riled up is because someone is talking negatively about something they like when they're trying to get excited and look for all the "hype" in order to feel validated. People want announcement threads to be celebrations of this thing they're so hyped for, so they get really ticked off when people express any form of disappointment.

It doesn't even just have to be race or gender issues, the same happens with frame rates, graphics, characters, writing, dialogue, etc. When people want to be in their hype bubble, they lash out at anything that might pop it.

Tie in a lack of understanding and empathy towards minority/gender issues and bam: you've got a really shitty, dismissive post.
 
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