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[Delusibeta]

So people got triggered by the possibility of not playing as a woman/minority in RDR2?

Edited your post to be more accurate. Lime jumped to conclusions and complained that a) that there were not going to be any female playable characters and b) that six of the seven playable characters were white. That basically set everyone off.

Of course, the big problem with Lime's argument is that we don't actually know if the art is of the playable characters, never mind anything else.

 

[Airola]

I've controlled all kinds of things in games. From women to men. From humans to robots. From bears to frogs.

I don't get why people get pissed off either way. Pissed off if there is something and pissed off if there isn't something. Insane.

It's like everything has to be politics in some way.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

The representation of minorities in media is something that annoys me in general. In this case though, with one poster, I'll hang fire.

Anyone watched the Good Wife? Who knew Chicago was so white.

 

[aeolist]

Not the original poster you quoted but I always felt The Witcher 3 being a good example. The Witcher being heavily based by Polish folklore and made by Polish developers, set in a world that very much resembles Poland (and in the second expansion, France). But when the game released, there was a lot of complaining that there weren't any black people in the game.

I'm all for representation of minorities, and I'm for it because it makes the world more 'realistic', even if it's made-up. The world the game takes place in needs to feel like a real place. When you start adding in minorities not to make the game-world a more realistic setting but just to fill a quota, that's when you're shoehorning in. And it annoys me as much as whitewashing folklore and stories from other parts of the world.

part of the complaint about the witcher games is their use of the trope where oppressed minorities are represented by sentient nonhumans, in this case elves. that has seen a lot of pushback in recent years.

second, even if black people were rare in medieval poland it was not 100% white people since there was a significant jewish minority in the country for a very long time.

third, the witcher is only lightly based on polish mythology and contains bits and pieces from lots of different strains of folklore from a wide variety of places.

 

[Adam_Vania]

i don't see why you should identify with your character at all, what does that have to do with anything?

i play Super Mario Bros. yet i am not an Italian plumber.

i play Mortal Kombat yet i am not a ninja with ice blast powers.

i play Dark Souls yet i am not a pyromancer.

it's cool inhabiting their worlds but i don't "identify with" them. i play Castlevania to be a skeleton-slaying medieval vampire hunter. this doesn't mean i identify with Richter Belmont.

maybe it's a linguistic thing. you "play" a game but to "identify with" seems more serious, more like, hey we aren't playing, we are identifying, this is real. it doesn't seem like playing anymore? doesn't make any sense imo.

 

[Crash Station]

It's popular enough that at least some people have. I don't really remember on the Telltale forums when it was being released. I think the closes racial issue I could think being brought up was how it could be seen as

Spoiler

racist for Lee to be a criminal that killed someone who slept with his wife.

I don't mean complaints from those that want better representation. I mean complaints from those that don't and were upset at having to play ad a black guy.

 

[Mupod]

No one can figure out what level of diversity is acceptable.

I mean, take overwatch. You've got people angry at its ''''unrealistically'''' non-white cast (generally these being the ones you can safely ignore), but then there are people who couldn't care less, people who like it, people who like it so much that it validates the game for them, people who like the diversity to such an extent that a recent costume giving a poc chalk white (not caucasian) skin feels like a betrayal, people who feel that there needs to be gay representation despite no characters having any confirmed sexualities gay or otherwise, and people who see the game as just another example of the terrible state of diversity in video games.

A correct level of diversity does not and will never exist. It's a very personal thing to each person, which is why arguments of it tend to bring out the worst in people.

The only thing I think most people agree on is that we can do better than we're doing now.

And then you have GAF which complains that Overwatch isn't diverse enough and needs more older women. Which ended up being pretty funny a few weeks later for obvious reasons.

But yeah Overwatch's cast is a perfect example of how it can be a really great thing without feeling shoehorned-in. It even has gameplay effects where they can have voice callouts in their native languages to help identify when they are on the other team.

 

[Lunar15]

Please provide stats, otherwise tales from your ass.

If you think I'm insinuating that racism doesn't exist and people aren't racially motivated to be upset, you'd be wrong. That said, it's important to understand that a lot of people just lash out at literally anything that might pop their comfort bubble. Then you get get the people who use that as an excuse to release some diet (and not so diet) racism.

The problem is, these people who are so wrapped up in their hype bubble and can't take criticism are also the kinds of people who lack empathy and understanding of gender/race issues. They don't want that to "encroach" on this comfortable thing they like.

That's why a minority in a lead seems "shoehorned" to these people, when in reality it's white protagonists who are shoehorned in where they're not needed.

 

[jon bones]

same reason people vote for Trump - lots of 'alt-right / gamergate / anime avatar' types don't like people who aren't white males

Just read the first page and within a few posts you can see why.

To make it clear, there is nothing wrong with wanting more diversity in games or other media. I don't give a shit if the protagonist is a woman, black, asian or whatever. As long as the game is fun, I'm all for it. You won't see me crying over a game where the characters aren't (just) white males.

But to almost immediately derail the thread of the announcement of Red Dead Redemption 2 is another thing. Why not make a new thread where you can discuss the (lack of) diversity in the game? Not everyone wants to discuss these things.

safe space !

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Just read the first page and within a few posts you can see why.

To make it clear, there is nothing wrong with wanting more diversity in games or other media. I don't give a shit if the protagonist is a woman, black, asian or whatever. As long as the game is fun, I'm all for it. You won't see me crying over a game where the characters aren't (just) white males.

But to almost immediately derail the thread of the announcement of Red Dead Redemption 2 is another thing. Why not make a new thread where you can discuss the (lack of) diversity in the game? Not everyone wants to discuss these things.

Its a discussion forum. Diversity is relevant to the discussion. There can be more than one conversation ongoing in a general thread.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think if thread shitting in every AAA announcement thread (Zelda, RDR) with "omg why isn't X a girl? Fuck Off Nintendo/Rockstar" is an expectation going forward, counterpoints, hot takes, and discussion as to why it's not a big deal can be expected as well.

 

[L Thammy]

Just read the first page and within a few posts you can see why.

To make it clear, there is nothing wrong with wanting more diversity in games or other media. I don't give a shit if the protagonist is a woman, black, asian or whatever. As long as the game is fun, I'm all for it. You won't see me crying over a game where the characters aren't (just) white males.

But to almost immediately derail the thread of the announcement of Red Dead Redemption 2 is another thing. Why not make a new thread where you can discuss the (lack of) diversity in the game? Not everyone wants to discuss these things.

Discussing the diversity of the characters in the image isn't really a derail, though, it's just discussion. The image is what the thread topic's about and they're still talking about the image.

Beyond that, the conversation up to that point consisted of "Hell Yes!", "oh wow ", and "Holy shit !!". Not exactly an intense debate, and pretty easy to resume if you really wanted.

 

[Alcotholic]

People need to step back and ask themselves the important questions:
"Would changing the skin color/sex make a difference or affect the the story? If so, how?"
I don't really think developers/consumers think about this enough. I see nothing wrong with having diversity- in fact, I think it would make stories and characters more interesting. Why are there so many white men? Most of them are shells anyway, not like changing gender/race would make a huge difference.

 

[sasliquid]

I don't think people would have a problem with no female characters in RDR2 if

A. Rockstar is one of the biggest developers in the world and neither GTA or RDR have had female protagonists
B. GTA and potentially RDR2 have multiple player characters and none (seemingly) are female
C. Their female NPCs tend to be really bad (not all)

 

[WrenchNinja]

I would like to have a civil discussion about all of this but the fear of banning is ever present. There has to be 2 sides to every argument whether you agree or not.

Diversity for any reason is a good thing i think most people can agree with but some people do take issue when posters start getting mean when they see a protagonist as another white male. "Oh look, another white guy" sounds so derogatory. I think some people see that as a personal attack. If the same comment was turned around, i doubt it would be accepted in civil discourse.

I think there is great fodder for an honest, mild-mannered discussion, but only if the first instinct isn't to ban or silence any dissenters.

It would pretty pathetic if white guys were so thin skinned that even pointing out "oh another white guy" is a considered an insult.

 

[Frozenprince]

Did we break out the gaming side "diversity thread" bingo card yet?

Crossing Eden usually has it on hand.

 

[BlizzKrut]

The word "many" does not mean "all".

And it might not be a different question. It's not like there's a study on this. Maybe playing as a minority protagonist really does undercut the power fantasy attraction for some people. Hence me writing that it "needs further examination".

You're saying to just stop even thinking or talijg about this line of reasoning. May I ask why?[/QUOTE]

I was talking about in this thread in particular, not all-together, and I wasn't ordering anyone to stop, I was just giving my opinion that this discussion isn't really what the thread is about.

 

[ModBot]

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