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Tomb Raider Definitive Edition - PlayStation 4 = ~60fps, Xbox One = ~30fps

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P

Projectjustice

Banned
fade_ said:
I have a gtx titan and it can't run Tomb Raider at a locked 60fp on the highest settings...
Click to expand...

So you run the GTX titan GPU on its own, without motherboard, CPU, RAM and ectt?

LIke I said TressFX still needs optimization on PC.

ShinUltramanJ said:
I really need to make a list of what games I'm excited about?

If you're not interested in them that's fine. But to act surprised that other people are "excited" about these consoles is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

No its not, theres no system seller out on either console. Most of the sales are based on hype.
 
J

jaythagamer

Member
bud said:
30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.

30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.

I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.


Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard

So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.

30fps vs 60fps

The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.

http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense
Click to expand...

you should have read the comments in that link before posting such nonsense
 
C

Canis lupus

Member
bud said:
30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.

30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.

I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.


Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard

So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.

30fps vs 60fps

The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.

http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense
Click to expand...

When I'm passing through the TV section of Mediamarkt I always stop by to see demo movies they put on those TV's with higher motions that are advertised with marketing names as "truemotion, smooth motion, motionflow" etc, it makes the movies look like amateur cam footage.

I admit I often have that soap opera effect feeling with some games in 60fps, it's not bothering, it just feels weird lol.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard API’s that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we don’t know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we’re giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference – it would be obvious.

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.
Click to expand...

When reading this in retrospect it's almost as if he's trying to convince himself, not us.

30 fps vs 60 fps on the same game is a pretty huge deal and I think we are going to see the gulf between the two widen as we move forward. I hope the "all-in-one" idea was worth it.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Projectjustice said:
PS4 is a powerhouse? I have to give Sony credit in marketing. They really nailed it on some IPhone levels here.

Your hardware PC comparisons is completely wrong, TressFX still needs optimizing on PC.
Extreme bang for the buck huh? Yet it cant run Tomb Raider locked at 60FPS on a resolution thats is past its prime on PC.
Click to expand...
You can't talk smack about the price-performance ratio of the PS4 hardware with a straight face.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
I have no issue at all with this game being 30fps. That is totally playable, and so long as it keeps to that, not janky at all.

However, when one version is running at twice that speed, it makes it look bad in comparison. If I only had a Bone and wanted the game, it would not stop me from buying or enjoying it at 30fps. PS4 owners can laud this over Xbone, but that doesn't stop that version from being either good, or perfectly playable.

So sure, console warriors can mark this as a PS win, but people shouldn't be so eager to dismiss the Bone version, as I'm sure it's still fantastic.

You can get the game on PC for next to nothing now as well, so the price should be a complaint from all sides.
 
A

AbandonedTrolley

Member
zainetor said:
more like tressfx on pc sucks.
dont start making things up like this, please.
Click to expand...

So you're trying to say that at $400 the PS4 doesn't offer a better $/power value than a PC becuase of poor optimization? It's amazing how the PC users all of a sudden were calling out the PS4 when they thought it was 30fps and how the PC could do 60+, now it's no big deal that it's been mentioned that it can handle that too.

The posters that can accept it's a decent machine agree that it's doing well with what it's got and it's price point, others look for excuses as to why it's doing so well in comparison.
 
Gumbie

Gumbie

Member
All the console war aside....good on the devs for utilizing the hardware and not gimping for parity. I hope more developers follow suit. This is coming from someone who owns a ps4 and x1.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Ol No Bones said:
I have no problem with the thread being made. Its really just the 50 pages of snark that is with it. That snark goes for most threads these days. Of course I could just avoid Gaf but some of the best discussion happens here but these are dark days where the console wars are so vicious. I just think pages and pages of snark is getting old. Doesn't really matter what I think.
Click to expand...

why read the thread then? you don't have to quit GAF, just stop coming into these threads.

you'll keep getting snark as long as you keep getting people trying to say 1080p and 60 fps don't matter.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
Projectjustice said:
So you run the GTX titan GPU on its own, without motherboard, CPU, RAM and ectt?
Click to expand...

Will you start making sense please? PS4 not good bang for buck because it doesn't run Tomb Raider at constant 60 FPS, and then that post. Seriously.

Projectjustice said:
Cause i wasnt talking about price. Just performance and its not impressive.
Click to expand...

Of course you were when you asked about the PS4 being good bang for the buck. Extremely poor trolling, but you've been following that trend in this thread at least.
 
U

U2NUMB

Member
gaming_noob said:
As a Halo fan, I can only hope this beating will help MS make better tech decisions for next gen.
Click to expand...

It is a few months into this gen... everyone flipping out over this sort of thing is really amazing to me. Look how far last gen went in terms of visuals and performance.

This is very similar to last gen..but this time Sony's platform will be the slightly better version of most multi plat games. Last gen 360 games were always a tad better.

As an owner of both I have my foot in both camps... this sort of stuff is just getting out of hand. No idea why people want to "win" on so many levels this gen.
 
Revolutionary

Revolutionary

Member
fade_ said:
I have a gtx titan and it can't run Tomb Raider at a locked 60fp on the highest settings...
Click to expand...
As a few of us mentioned yesterday when you mentioned crashes and poor Titan performance: something is wrong with your setup.

I have a Titan and I achieved 60 once the patches started hitting a few weeks after release of the game. The crashes also stopped.
 
J

Jack cw

Member
TAJ said:
My GPU is 3.8TF and it's not enough to average 60 fps, let alone maintain it. 120fps would be pretty tough.
Click to expand...

Yep. Thats why post like those from that guy are so useless because they are obvoius trolls. I bet that not even 5% of this board were able to play this game on PC with max details, tressFX enabled and average 60fps.
 
R

RooMHM

Member
symmetrical said:
That's what people don't get. What it is for a mere $399. Then they argue that in a couple years PCs will catch up again in the price/performance ratio, but by that time the ps4 could drop to $349 or $299 and again still be a very relevant machine FOR THE PRICE.
Click to expand...
That s delusional. Not denying the console might be "relevant" but your speech about price/performance ratios when ps4 uses.id-low tier components ... No.
 
K

Kaswa101

Member
trickstar said:
yMfyYgV.jpg
Click to expand...

Dat comment lol.
 
S

Senor Kami

Banned
30 FPS is fine for me but it's upsetting how much a joke the X1 appears to be from a technical standpoint. Increased optimization will probably make the gap even further as the X1 has to first reach what the PS4 was able to do on launch while obviously the PS4 will be exceeding that.
 
O

orioto

Good Art™
U2NUMB said:
It is a few months into this gen... everyone flipping out over this sort of thing is really amazing to me. Look how far last gen went in terms of visuals an performance.

This is very similar to last gen..but this time Sony's platform will be the slightly better version of most multi plat games. Last gen 360 games were always a tad better.

As an owner of both I have my foot in both camps... this sort of stuff is just getting out of hand. No idea why people want to "win" on so many levels this gen.
Click to expand...

Nahh this is not really the same situation actually...
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Man that sucks. If this really is going to be a standard with these releases it's going to really hurt the Xbox over time. If I didn't have both systems I would be really disappointed.
 
N

nictron

Member
jaythagamer said:
you should have read the comments in that link before posting such nonsense
Click to expand...

Everyone disagrees with that post lol. Movies and Games are two very different things. A movie is filmed one way to be seen from one perspective. A game a can be flipped rotated and spun in real time. Why is this comparison even being made?
 
S

Shahed

Member
Projectjustice said:
Cause i wasnt talking about price. Just performance and its not impressive.
Click to expand...

Not that I have a shoe in this since everyone is free to choose what they want, but the person you quoted (and quoted you) clearly mentioned the whole price/performance angle. You even referenced the bang for buck line!
 
C

Canis lupus

Member
emiranda061288 said:
the resolution wars... if people are that concerned they should play it on pc at more than +120 fps. I'm getting tired of this discussion on every single game because it is a waste of everybody's time.
Click to expand...

I'm getting tired of these comments that forbid us to talk about anything tech related just because it isn't the best.
 
U

U2NUMB

Member
orioto said:
Nahh this is not really the same situation actually...
Click to expand...

It sure is... does not matter what the exact reasons are but games will be created on the PS4 platform and ported over to the X1 and there will be some give there this time due to some power issues and last gen it was due to difficulty with the hardware.

End result is the same and the average gamer is oblivious to it.
 
P

Projectjustice

Banned
Can Crusher said:
Will you start making sense please? PS4 not good bang for buck because it doesn't run Tomb Raider at constant 60 FPS, and then that post. Seriously.
Click to expand...

When did I said it wasnt? All I said in his PC hardware comparison is that it wasnt good. Everyone is falling back on this bang for the buck non-sense as a scapegoat these days. Its just so crazy that this is what gamers are hanging on to just to justify their console.

SmokyDave said:
Sorry, I assumed you had read the post you responded to. My mistake ;)
Click to expand...

I was just replying to his PC comparison, its not the angle im taking.
 
A

AbandonedTrolley

Member
Projectjustice said:
Cause i wasnt talking about price. Just performance and its not impressive.
Click to expand...

Well performance comes at a price, so yes it is impressive. That's like saying a Titan isn't impressive, because 4 of them would blow it out the water. But yeah you're paying a hell of a lot more for that performance.

Really I don't understand some people when they post. How is a $400 machine pulling off what it's doing not considered impressive?
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Projectjustice said:
Cause i wasnt talking about price. Just performance and its not impressive.
Click to expand...

I have a pretty solid setup with my PC and I wasn't hitting 60fps with tressFX on when I played it.

Projectjustice said:
When did I said it wasnt? All I said in his PC hardware comparison is that it wasnt good. Everyone is falling back on this bang for the buck non-sense as a scapegoat these days. Its just so crazy that this is what gamers are hanging on to just to justify their console.
Click to expand...

I'm lost here so I apologize if this is a dumb question but are you not impressed because it isn't running at a higher resolution? Being able to play this at maxed specs on your tv is a good thing no?
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
BruceLeeRoy said:
Man that sucks. If this really is going to be a standard with these releases it's going to really hurt the Xbox over time. If I didn't have both systems I would be really disappointed.
Click to expand...
What sucks is that Crystal Dynamics didn't push the PS4 version even further, to differentiate the 360 and PS3 generation from the PS4 version even further.

COME AT ME 60FPSER
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Projectjustice said:
When did I said it wasnt? All I said in his PC hardware comparison is that it wasnt good. Everyone is falling back on this bang for the buck non-sense as a scapegoat these days. Its just so crazy that this is what gamers are hanging on to just to justify their console.
Click to expand...
Well no shit. When has console gaming ever been close to PC gaming?

This "hurr PC is stronger" stuff needs to stop. We know.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
I mean I played this game at 60 fps max settings on 3 year old pc hardware.

What is the problem with the new consoles to make it so they can't even run a previous gen game marginally better?

I hope this gen is short.
 
W

Waaghals

Member
TheAngryMonkey said:
I found the 48fps version of the hobbit to look really odd in some scenes but that feeling just doesn't translate over to gaming. Some games really do benefit from 60fps, TR is one of them.
Click to expand...

It's more than that, games are not movies. Movies benefit from some really nice natural motion blur that make them look good even at 24fps. Games need to run at 30fps in order to feel anywhere near smooth.

In addition, input lag is reduced at higher framerates. This of course is something movies don't have to worry about. As a result there are very good reasons for games to run at higher framerates, reasons that does not apply to movies.

We should all keep in mind that movies have traditionally always been 24fps, so that is what we are all used to. There is no inherent natural standard for the cinematic feeling; we are just used to it being 24 fps.If movies had always been 60fps, nobody would have complained about 60fps games.
 
MMaRsu

MMaRsu

Banned
U2NUMB said:
It is a few months into this gen... everyone flipping out over this sort of thing is really amazing to me. Look how far last gen went in terms of visuals and performance.

This is very similar to last gen..but this time Sony's platform will be the slightly better version of most multi plat games. Last gen 360 games were always a tad better.

As an owner of both I have my foot in both camps... this sort of stuff is just getting out of hand. No idea why people want to "win" on so many levels this gen.
Click to expand...

This is nothing comparable to last gen. AT ALL.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
i hope this gen is 8 years long again. the games are running 1080/60 and the console wars are full of hilarity

ps4 is basically making xbox ones and gaming pcs obselete, and the resulting saltiness is so delicious
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
U2NUMB said:
It sure is... does not matter what the exact reasons are but games will be created on the PS4 platform and ported over to the X1 and there will be some give there this time due to some power issues and last gen it was due to difficulty with the hardware.

End result is the same and the average gamer is oblivious to it.
Click to expand...

Ahh using the 'average gamer wont notice' defense to downplay a pretty big difference between the two ports.
 
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