I think the fact that PS360 are still playing catch-up just further cements the Wii as the winner. granted I don't think either of those consoles will surpass 100m but the fact that it took them double the time to even be within arm's reach (a very very long arm at that) is very telling
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Why do people keep saying that "Wii won last gen?"
- Thread starter Comandr
- Start date
I think the fact that PS360 are still playing catch-up just further cements the Wii as the winner. granted I don't think either of those consoles will surpass 100m but the fact that it took them double the time to even be within arm's reach (a very very long arm at that) is very telling
tauroxd
Member
I kind of agree with OP, but Supermanisdead is maing a very strong and valid point. Just sayin'.
And all this:
PES 2014 was released for PS2 in November.
Damn those goalposts can MOVE!
Muppet of a Man
Member
It's not even about the amount of hardware units sold. It's really about the software attach rate. And in that department, Wii was clearly the loser of last generation.
ryanofcall
Member
I thought gamers won last gen, since we got so many awesome games on three different home console platforms and pc?
THE CONSOLE WAR IS NEVER OVER!
We shall go on to the end. We shall fight on the message boards, we shall fight on the image boards, we shall fight in the game stores and on the social media sites; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this company or a large part of it were trolled and flamed, then the fans beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the facts, would carry on the struggle, until, in Iwata's good time, the Next Gen, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
What are the attach rates at now? I thought all three were pretty decent last time it was brought up in a thread.
prag16
Banned
As I said several pages back, regardless of the argument of who won, and by what metric, we can be sure of ONE thing.
The losers of gen 7 (and every gen) are the console warriors.
For me personally, it was a terrible console for the kind of games I like to play. I hated the motion controls, have no desire to get off the couch and game. Kinect falls under this for me also. I've been a console gamer for 30 years, and Wii was not going to change the fact that I was ingrained to use video games to unwind, kick back and relax on the couch with a traditional style controller in my hands. I bought one at launch and it collected more dust than any other console of any generation...and I've owned just about every console in every generation since the beginning. Its now used as a Netflix box at my parents house, and my 4 year old certainly loves to play it when he goes over there. So while the console for me personally was the biggest POS gaming console I've ever owned, I certainly get its appeal to a wide range of people who can't, or won't, play with a traditional controller in their hands. I probably saw a dozen news stories of old people in nursing homes playing Wii sports, countless news stories of soccer moms all over the country going crazy over Wii Fit. I get it. It was mainstream. But it wasn't for me.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Wait, are you saying the PS2 generation didn't end the moment Dreamcast bowed out? It kept going?
All that tells us is that Wii was unusually successful at first (giving credence to the fad theory), while PS3 and 360 were selling "normally". As has been pointed out before, on the software side PS30 have already outsold Wii, supposedly because most of those previous non-gamers who were targeted by Nintendo's blue ocean strategy and purchased Wii to play Wii Sports bought few other games. Nintendo didn't manage to turn them into regular customers, which is an essential part of the razor and blade model.
I totally understand this approach to the Wii, I wasn't a huge fan of the motion controls either. I think I used the remote for all of about half a dozen games, and went through all of the others, including the ones I spent the most time on (being Fire Emblem, Xenoblade and Monster Hunter) with a classic controller.
What makes me wonder is backwards compatibility for motion stuff. Controllers are easy enough, but what happens when we want to play Zelda Skyward Sword on the virtual console in a few years time? Mario Galaxy and Twlight Princess are obviously easy enough to play with buttons, but SS not so much, it would need virtually every item and interaction rethinking. Not that they are anywhere near releasing even GC stuff on VC yet, but still!
abandoned quickly? It had 4 solid years and got a second Zelda game in it's fifth.
Console cycles are usually 4-5 years. What Nintendo did between 2011 and 2013 is anybody's guess though.
then you don't get it. the wii had some amazing games that didn't use motion control. If you think the wii was just a motion controlled, grandma owning system, you don't get it at all.
and I laugh at people that think you have to get off the couch to use motion controls. you don't have to flail your arms to swing a sword. shit man, people even think you have to hold out your arm to use pointer controls in COD. every motion controlled game i've played, it's a simple movement of the wrist.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
You don't normally kill a console 18 months before it's successor releases.
Comandr
Member
So for the sake of argument, what's going on this generation? Because the Wii U is nothing like the Wii at all. The Wii Remote is not the centerpiece. HD is now in focus (pun not intended.) They completely changed their online structure. They got rid of friend codes, are working towards an account system because losing all of your games when/if the system goes is unacceptable.
It occurs to me that sure, 360 and PS3 emulated some of the Wii's aspects to try to drive sales back to their hardware, but by and large, Wii U is desperately playing catch up to 360 and PS3 now.
The Wii U launched long before there were any concrete details on Gen 8. The Wii U's major competitors were 360 and PS3 at that time. I'm not going to even get in to the various ways that Wii U cannot compete against the XB1 or PS4.
Because the PS4 can do pretty much anything the Wii U can do, better. (inb4mario)From a technical standpoint. Even Remote Play with the vita is great, and remarkably responsive. And it can be done truly remotely in a wifi environment.
Reggie himself said years ago that the blue ocean strategy panned out well because Nintendo was able to capture a tremendous audience that was previously not interested in playing games.
The idea behind the Wii U was to continue that momentum, hold on to the moniker, keep it familiar, and show all of these new game-players that they can take their experience with the Wii and deepen it with a new, more robust console. Nintendo went on to say that the Wii U was targeting the core audience.
So my question is: Why change? If the Wii truly was the perfect storm, why is the Wii U so different? Sure, okay, given the time period, the Wii was the winner in terms of sheer sales. But at what cost? Why did Nintendo suddenly change gears and go in a completely different direction? The beloved Wii Remote is now gone, replaced by a more traditional two handed controller with a touch screen on it. HD graphics, online features, more things that people have been asking for. More things that Microsoft and Sony have been delivering for years.
If you look at the 360 or the PS3 today against what the Wii is capable of, it's not hard to see that both HD systems are far more feature rich and versatile than the Wii ever could hope to be.
So is the shoe not really on the other foot then? Does Nintendo themselves see the Wii as a true "winner" outside of sales? Why didn't they just continue using the Wii Remote and offering attractive software to the audience they already had?
Let's take something the Wii did (sell the most) and cast it as part of its failings. If we do that with anything positive we might say about it, then other consoles are free to win.
Poisoning the well I guess. I thought it was decided that this was a bad idea for all console warriors, right?
Poisoning the well I guess. I thought it was decided that this was a bad idea for all console warriors, right?
Really? Coming from PS2 I was beyond disappointed with PS3 as a whole. Overall, PS2+GCN was a much nicer combo than PS3+Wii, I guess.
Jawmuncher
Member
Don't really see how this is a goalpost since I said it all in one post.
Had I been changing my reasoning then perhaps. Better luck next time.
Oh I agree can't see 360 or PS3 really getting to those Wii number. Just find it odd we have this topic going on now. But it's evident we all do see generations and the like a bit diferently.
I don't even understand this post.
If your race is 'only HD third party games count' then sure, it only got a tiny fraction of the quality third party games that released across other consoles due to the power difference. You could just as easily say that those other consoles got virtually none of the awesome third party Wii exclusives too, which pretty much went unnoticed.
I know the point you are getting it is all those lovely, quality HD multiplats, but to not include the gems that only appeared on the Wii on the big list of games that each console missed out on is a bit unfair when the HD consoles got virtually none of the Wii third party stuff either.
For most of my friends, the Wii operated as their second console- it complemented a PC, PS3 or 360 very well due to the lack of crossover titles, and because of that more of them had one than any of the others, despite no one using it as their primary gaming device. Strange times.
Graphics Horse
Member
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Because it won in ever way that actually matters: Units Sold and Profitability.
And for the same reason that despite the Wii U currently having the best price compared to PS4/Xbone and the largest list of high quality exclusives at this very moment, it's losing in every way that matters: Units Sold and Profitability.
And for the same reason that despite the Wii U currently having the best price compared to PS4/Xbone and the largest list of high quality exclusives at this very moment, it's losing in every way that matters: Units Sold and Profitability.
Comandr
Member
Hahaha. Too good. Hat's off to you, sir.
SirUltimos
Member
I'm only contributing to this because I hate myself, but here we go:
Some important information to keep in mind while arguing.
The Wii has sold 100.9 million consoles and 892.34 million pieces of software.
It had a total of 1222 games released, of which 372 were exclusive.
This brings it's attach rate to 8.21.
The Xbox 360 sold 80 million consoles and I could not find the amount of software sold.
It had a total of 1119 games released, of which 187 were exclusive.
The PS3 has sold 80 million consoles and 595 million pieces of software.
It had a total of 795 games released, of which 150 were exclusive.
This brings it's attach rate to 7.43.
Please note that these numbers do not include digital only titles for any system.
This means that the Wii had better third part support than either of it's competitors. It has a slight edge over the Xbox 360 and a significant lead over the Playstation 3. In terms of number of exclusives it kills them both, and it's attach rate was slightly less than 1 point higher than the PS3's attach rate (although I do believe the 360's attach rate to kill them both).
Please keep these numbers in mind so that we're not spreading misinformation.
Some important information to keep in mind while arguing.
The Wii has sold 100.9 million consoles and 892.34 million pieces of software.
It had a total of 1222 games released, of which 372 were exclusive.
This brings it's attach rate to 8.21.
The Xbox 360 sold 80 million consoles and I could not find the amount of software sold.
It had a total of 1119 games released, of which 187 were exclusive.
The PS3 has sold 80 million consoles and 595 million pieces of software.
It had a total of 795 games released, of which 150 were exclusive.
This brings it's attach rate to 7.43.
Please note that these numbers do not include digital only titles for any system.
This means that the Wii had better third part support than either of it's competitors. It has a slight edge over the Xbox 360 and a significant lead over the Playstation 3. In terms of number of exclusives it kills them both, and it's attach rate was slightly less than 1 point higher than the PS3's attach rate (although I do believe the 360's attach rate to kill them both).
Please keep these numbers in mind so that we're not spreading misinformation.
To be a fitting analogy, King Arthur would have to jump off a cliff in the next shot.
The Wii did have some great exclusives, but I feel those HD multiplats are what got noticed by most gamers this generation. When it comes to sales, the Wii absolutely did the best. However, if we're talking gamers the HD twins had Nintendo beat.
The levels of spin in this thread just continue to evolve into utter insanity. While I'm not familiar with the sales data of the three companies or attach rates (I know Nintendo posted recently that there'd been something like 900 million sales of software and over a 100 million sellers at retail though), surely even this metric is just plain wrong because the Wii has sold more hardware. Of course their attach rate would be lower.
SirUltimos
Member
Look above. The Wii sold a lot of hardware and a lot of software. It has a higher attach rate than the PS3.
Oh, but it did. I consider the Wii a damn good machine. It was versatile, it could be modded to run homebrew software (I got many hours of fun messing around in emulators and Doom/Quake ports, not to mention some other homebrew games too) and it had a great library. Well implemented motion controls were fun (WarioWare: Smooth Moves is a blast), and the IR pointer made aiming in first person games feel fantastic. Plus backwards compatibility allowed me to discover what is now my favorite Nintendo franchise: Paper Mario.
So yes, to me it is a good console and I look at it positively. Guess I must be using questionable tactics too, right?
For perspective, Mario Kart Wii outsold the entire Uncharted franchise. So did NSMBWii. Are those not games, somehow? Am I not a gamer because I bought them, even considering I'm a PS3 owner?
Comandr
Member
This is really interesting! Does this list include games that were included with the console? Almost every Wii came with Wii Sports. And then they came with Wii Sports AND Wii Sports resort. Then there was the one that came with Wii Sports and NSMBWii. So I mean, to play devil's advocate, if you shave off the games that by and large came with the purchase of the system, doesn't that DRAMATICALLY change the picture that is painted here? PS3 and 360 for the most part, don't include a game by default. Sure there are bundles, but those are the exception, not the rule.
Thank you, very helpful. The order is not surprising, and good numbers all around.
You forgot Mario Kart Wii, which was at ~30 million copies sold before getting bundled
It's a matter of definition. When people say that Wii won last gen, it usually means that their definition of winning is selling more units that the competitors. You are not obligated to agree with that and you can suggest your own definitions. For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to introduce having a blinking blue light as a sole winning criterion. So I can say now that by that definition, Wii undoubtedly won this generation. There is no need to be upset over this stuff.
As for my actual opinion on the matter, I like the Wii. It's not as great as it could have been, but it has a very decent selection of great games. Its lifecycle ended rather abruptly, but it doesn't really have to do anything with my opinion about it.
As for my actual opinion on the matter, I like the Wii. It's not as great as it could have been, but it has a very decent selection of great games. Its lifecycle ended rather abruptly, but it doesn't really have to do anything with my opinion about it.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Your saying the Wii-U's current predicament has nothing to do with the last few years of the Wii? For me, as I dont like 2D platformers and JRPG's, there was nothing worth playing on it. I know this is probably the wrong forum, but even the most hardcore Wii gamer must recognise that most other gamers abandoned it after the novelty wore off.
I swore I'd let nobody in
Not that way again
I'd fixed it so they won't stand a chance
But you lessened the distance
I think you knew what this could be
You never gave up reaching for me
Because you hold me up so high
Give yourself with no condition
Because you guide me
When I'm stumbling in the dark
You hear what's deep inside
When I need you there to listen
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO WON MY HEART
Not that way again
I'd fixed it so they won't stand a chance
But you lessened the distance
I think you knew what this could be
You never gave up reaching for me
Because you hold me up so high
Give yourself with no condition
Because you guide me
When I'm stumbling in the dark
You hear what's deep inside
When I need you there to listen
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO WON MY HEART
SirUltimos
Member
That's actually a very good question!
I don't exactly have an answer for you, however. These numbers ultimately came from each of the company's themselves, so it would depend on whether or not they include bundled software. I would say that in some cases bundled software are included and in some cases they aren't. It's very hard to determine how much software was bundled with each console (especially since in some regions it counts as software sold and in some it doesn't, not to mention that not all regions got all bundles!)
To err on the side of fairness I would probably say that Nintendo's software number should be slightly lower and the Xbox 360's should be slightly lower than the (unknown) number it currently is since it had many, many bundles throughout it's day as well.
The novelty of awesome exclusive games that you didn't like?
The novelty of the 360 wore off for me sometime in 2008 and I never looked back. What a failure of a console.
Are the millions of people who bought all that Wii software, not gamers?
Shin Johnpv
Member
Not really. The Dreamcast actually sold fairly decently, what killed it, was the fact that Sega ran in the red for 13 years straight and the company couldn't financially support the Dreamcast any more.
I don't think bundled software usually counts in totals, but just so you know, Wii Sports was only bundled in one region. I'm not sure what other regions bundles looked like but only NA got Wii Sports for free afaik.