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Human_me · Jun 20, 2015

Interesting article from Digital Foundry, They test various games available and compare them to their native 360 counterparts.

Unlike the spotty backwards compatibility available on Xbox 360, which required a custom wrapper for each individual game, Microsoft has taken a more extensive approach through the use of a virtual machine that runs on the Xbox One as a game in and of itself. This virtual environment includes the Xbox 360 OS features, though they remain unavailable to the user, enabling the software to behave as if it is running on original hardware. The Xbox One then views this "Xbox 360" app as its own game allowing features such as screenshots and video sharing. The emulator supports both digital downloads and original DVDs, though discs simply act as a key, the core data downloading over the internet via Xbox Live.

Kameo was one of two Xbox 360 launch titles from Rare and remains a lovely game to this day. It's also one of the best performers in the entire roster of backwards compatible titles, with a near flawless presentation. The frame-rate during our test held rock solid at 30fps, just as we had hoped, and all of the lovely lighting and textures are present and accounted for. It feels every bit as solid on Xbox One as it does on Xbox 360. Of the titles we tested this is the virtual machine working at its best, producing the most accurate 'emulation'.

Status: Virtually perfect.

It should be noted that as an early title on Xbox 360, Mass Effect suffers from rather egregious tearing, severe texture pop-in and serious frame-rate issues - all issues which were improved in subsequent games. The results on Xbox One are very interesting and a little unexpected.

Mass Effect:
As it stands, during both exploration and combat sequences, the game runs upwards of 30 per cent slower on Xbox One with a deviation ranging between 5-10fps at any random point. What was already a sluggish experience on original hardware becomes nearly unplayable at points on Xbox One. During an explosive encounter during the train sequence in the first mission, we encountered dips as low as 10fps. We suspect that forcing v-sync is to blame for the drop in performance, though CPU inefficiencies seen in many early Unreal Engine 3 titles may also be an issue. We'll be eager to see how the virtual machine evolves over the coming months and we can't wait until other Unreal Engine titles become available for testing, but for now, this is not the right way to experience the game.

Status: Sub-optimal and nearly unplayable in places.

There is a lot more in the link.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-vs-backwards-compatibility-on-xbox-one

Ryaaan14 · Jun 20, 2015

Totally expected despite NeoGAF skepticism.

Wagram · Jun 20, 2015

Mass Effect looked pretty bad when they showed it on stage.

Raide · Jun 20, 2015

Very impressive stuff. Cannot wait to see the list get fleshed out more with new titles. Hopefully all publishers get on board and release them again.

Percy · Jun 20, 2015

lol, wasn't there a thread claiming ME was better than it was on 360 yesterday?

VGA222 · Jun 20, 2015

N+ seems to have frame pacing issues on the Xbox One. Some frames in the Xbox One version seem to display twice the game simulation of a single frame.

Max_Po · Jun 20, 2015

I told you all in the xbox 1 bc thread that X360 games are running as apps and ms is using VMware technology but I was laughed at.

There were people mentioning how vibrant mass effect runs and it runs better on xbx1 then the x360..... dead wrong ....

Shin-Ra · Jun 20, 2015

Straight away we note that image quality on Xbox One mimics the standard 1080p output available on Xbox 360, with a couple of minor differences. Notably, the contrast levels on Xbox One are boosted slightly, in addition to a subtle sharpening effect that produces minor edge-ringing. Thankfully, these differences only manifest when comparing the two side-by-side and certainly don't detract from the overall presentation. Additionally, unlike original Xbox emulation on the 360, there are no additional image quality enhancements available, and there probably never will be.

From what I've seen of the directly captured PNG screenshots people are posting, the sharpen filter isn't subtle at all.

Jomjom · Jun 20, 2015

Percy said:
lol, wasn't there a thread claiming ME was better than it was on 360 yesterday?

Yeah saw more than a few people post that. Placebo effect or DF is wrong.

sinnergy · Jun 20, 2015

Ryaaan14 said:
Totally expected despite NeoGAF skepticism.

Totally in preview, it's software so bugs are bound to happen

And it's a pretty thing to program a emulator that runs this good on a other hardware architecture, talk ti emulation programmers.

That's why it's in preview.

bigol · Jun 20, 2015

15-16 fps in combat in Mass Effect is simply unplayable.

Hockeymac18 · Jun 20, 2015

Percy said:
lol, wasn't there a thread claiming ME was better than it was on 360 yesterday?

Loading times and pop in did seem to be improved on the XB1, yes.

sinnergy · Jun 20, 2015

Jomjom said:
Yeah saw more than a few people post that. Placebo effect or DF is wrong.

Well the video comparison showed, that Xone was faster with loading and textures, watch the video

Black Republican · Jun 20, 2015

pretty impressive what they managed to do, hopefully they can get multi disk games running too

batman2million · Jun 20, 2015

Like anything, it's a start and like the Xbox One updates, it'll improve. I hope people didn't expect it to be 100% from the beginning.

Dictator93 · Jun 20, 2015

I am still surprised they even achieved this. I can likewise hope it only gets better.

Now launch this program on PC so I can play perfect dark zero in all of its hideous glory there.

Jomjom · Jun 20, 2015

sinnergy said:
Well the video comparison showed, that Xone was faster with loading and textures, watch the video

Ah that's true people were primarily commenting on loading times. I stand corrected.

Hoo-doo · Jun 20, 2015

Why did Spencer even say that the Xbox 360 games run 'natively' on Xbox One? It was obvious from the get-go that it was emulation.

kadotsu · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Why did Spencer even say that the Xbox 360 games run 'natively' on Xbox One? It was obvious from the get-go that it was emulation.

I think that native meant fat client in this case in comparison to the thin client "solution" from Sony.

Raide · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Why did Spencer even say that the Xbox 360 games run 'natively' on Xbox One? It was obvious from the get-go that it was emulation.

It is weird. The Xbox One is basically just running the 360 OS. So it is emulating the OS and the games just work that way. It seems that the games themselves are not being emulated in the normal sense but the OS is the one being emulated.

MrBigBoy · Jun 20, 2015

It's still in preview so I'll wait for the finished update to play my good old 360 games.

monlo · Jun 20, 2015

I still don't understand why users have to download a new version of every game

pswii60 · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Why did Spencer even say that the Xbox 360 games run 'natively' on Xbox One? It was obvious from the get-go that it was emulation.

He said it was emulation in GB interview.

Also the emulator is still in beta at this stage, so of course there will be performance improvements between now and launch.

sinnergy · Jun 20, 2015

It's all speculation at this point, but it's no simple feature

you have to emulate code that could be almost to the metal, emulate hardware limits, ram speeds etc.. etc..

Be glad that they got the job done, I am sure they will improve.

Shin-Ra · Jun 20, 2015

Is the grass rendering correctly here? I only played the original Viva Piñata.

CheezyMac88 said:

Hoo-doo · Jun 20, 2015

pswii60 said:
He said it was emulation in GB interview.

Yes, but he made sure to mention the word 'natively' on the Microsoft E3 press conference.

PensOwl · Jun 20, 2015

The original Perfect Dark received an accomplished re-release on Xbox 360 with improved assets and a jump to a 1080p60 presentation, looking quite attractive bearing in mind its N64 origins. Unfortunately, this game reveals one unexpected issue with the virtual machine - it doesn't yet support internal resolutions higher than 720p. When running on Xbox One, we see the game render at 720p upscaled to 1080p, while the original Xbox 360 version delivers a full HD experience. The lack of jaggies may suggest that Xbox One is actually rendering internally at 1080p, presenting at 720p via the VM, then upscaling back to the higher resolution.

This is... very strange. It shouldn't be a huge deal to support output higher than 1080p, especially since it's already rendering at this resolution should it?

Fliesen · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Yes, but he made sure to mention the word 'natively' on the Microsoft E3 press conference.

they're running "natively" on the emulated Xbox 360, i suppose.

maybe he (mis)used the word "natively" to clarify that the games themselves don't really need to be ported.

StealthGoblin · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Yes, but he made sure to mention the word 'natively' on the Microsoft E3 press conference.

Yeah, he seems to like having the division say something in a conference and then clarify it later....

Tenebrous · Jun 20, 2015

Solution - Put this emulator on PC where people have the hardware for it. Simples.

Mass Effect looked terrible on stage. I've no idea why people thought it'd be good.

Inuhanyou · Jun 20, 2015

As expected. Software emulation is going to be a challenge for every game having different results. 5 to 10fps slower for Mass effect which already ran pretty bad in the citadel on 360 is just not even worth it just to say i can play it on XB1.

Throw in no enhancements like 4xMSAA like 360's OG Xbox emulation and its just pointless...and for what, how long is it going to take to say the limited amount of games all run at an 'acceptable' quality on XB1? Cause they probably aren't ever all going to run at full original speed just by the nature of how they are being played.

StealthGoblin · Jun 20, 2015

I wonder why they decided to show a game with so many issues. Surely you'd bring a game to the show that worked really well.

Shin-Ra · Jun 20, 2015

The N+ shot shows a smoother dithering pattern so there's definitely a difference in the upscaling.

And it looks like 360 might have already been applying a sharpen filter to 720p games.

Brad Grenz · Jun 20, 2015

Wow, the performance in Mass effect is comically bad.Game is running at half the frame rate of the 360 on Xbox One at points. I can't imagine how much worse newer games will be...

geordiemp · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Why did Spencer even say that the Xbox 360 games run 'natively' on Xbox One? It was obvious from the get-go that it was emulation.

Was hoping it would be a strong emulation improving on 360..but.

With this, there is no point in getting an Xb1 to play 360 games, my 360 is better.

Backwards compatibility looks good on paper, but if its not better than the original, then there is ZERO point imo

End,

jem0208 · Jun 20, 2015

Hoo-doo said:
Yes, but he made sure to mention the word 'natively' on the Microsoft E3 press conference.

That's probAbly because most people consider "natively" to mean "running on the console" as opposed to a streaming solution like Sony's

Maximilian Kolbe · Jun 20, 2015

geordiemp said:
Was hoping it would be a strong emulation improving on 360..but.

With this, there is no point in getting an Xb1 to play 360 games, my 360 is better.

End,

You do know it's in beta right?
And for loading times and graphically, it's better on XB1.

Riky · Jun 20, 2015

When Spencer said "Natively" I took that as meaning not streamed. Amazing job really, adding V Sync overall is a good idea as I notice screen tearing always.

plasmawave · Jun 20, 2015

Wagram said:
Mass Effect looked pretty bad when they showed it on stage.

Wonder why they decided to show off that one instead of something else.

Zeouterlimits · Jun 20, 2015

Very impressive either way, but glad to get to the truth of current performance rather than fan hearsay.

Hopefully they can improve it.

Brad Grenz · Jun 20, 2015

plasmawave said:
Wonder why they decided to show off that one instead of something else.

Because it's the only remotely impressive game on the compatibility list?

Mechazawa · Jun 20, 2015

Take off the god damn vsyyyynnncc.

That shit is gonna make something like Bayonetta considerably worse.

danowat · Jun 20, 2015

Microsoft has taken a more extensive approach through the use of a virtual machine that runs on the Xbox One as a game in and of itself. This virtual environment includes the Xbox 360 OS features, though they remain unavailable to the user, enabling the software to behave as if it is running on original hardware. The Xbox One then views this "Xbox 360" app as its own game allowing features such as screenshots and video sharing. The emulator supports both digital downloads and original DVDs, though discs simply act as a key, the core data downloading over the internet via Xbox Live.

Outside of everything else (game availability and performance etc), I think that this is pretty damn impressive.

Raide · Jun 20, 2015

Damn people are quick to forget this is in testing phase and its part of the Preview Program, which is all about unfinished and potentially issue filled updates. There is going to be emulation problems considering what they are trying to do. Sheesh.

naitosan · Jun 20, 2015

Some people doesn't bother to read...

First of all, it's still in beta (only available for preview users) so it's bounced to have some bugs.

Secondly, I tried several games including Mass Effect and they all works beautifully with some expectations. Mass Effect did have some weird v-sync going on but loading and texture pop ins are all better.

And lastly, it's still in beta!

In general, the emulation is near perfect. I have no doubt they will improve it before fall release but I know games already looking better than on 360. Definitely excited.

Henrar · Jun 20, 2015

Totally expected. Xbox 360 emulation of original Xbox was similar - performance issues, lots of graphical bugs, etc. Still better than no BC however.

BuffetChamp · Jun 20, 2015

Brad Grenz said:
Wow, the performance in Mass effect is comically bad.Game is running at half the frame rate of the 360 on Xbox One at points. I can't imagine how much worse newer games will be...

So why not wait and see then? Or I guess you could go with the alternative - paying a company outrageous fees and having really bad input lag in those games? Oh wait....

rokkerkory · Jun 20, 2015

Brad Grenz said:
Wow, the performance in Mass effect is comically bad.Game is running at half the frame rate of the 360 on Xbox One at points. I can't imagine how much worse newer games will be...

Really now. I would expect continued refinement and improvements to come along as the emulation matures. Just like all other OS improvements.

Edit: Okay reading your post history, you always poo-poo X1 and the games. I get it now.

Collateral22 · Jun 20, 2015

Yeah there is definitely something wrong with ME. I don't remember the fps being that bad on it. Super Meat Boy seems to run fine though.

herod · Jun 20, 2015

rokkerkory said:
Really now. I would expect continued refinement and improvements to come along as the emulation matures. Just like all other OS improvements.

Just like it did on 360? lol

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