rokkerkory
Member
Just like the monthly OS updates on the X1 "lol"
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Digital Foundry vs Xbox One backwards compatibility
- Thread starter Human_me
- Start date
Just like the monthly OS updates on the X1 "lol"
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I'm sure it'll getbbwttrr before the official release.
Really? You don't? Maybe because the Xbox One isn't really a 360?
Miles Quaritch
Member
For anyone who missed it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1066097
Hmm.
I trust DF more, but it's interesting how both reached such wildly different conclusions.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Perhaps it has something to do with the eSRAM, perhaps they need it to speed up the graphics, but higher resolution as 720p hardly fit in.
Grimgrillz
Banned
Mass Effect:
As it stands, during both exploration and combat sequences, the game runs upwards of 30 per cent slower on Xbox One [/I]with a deviation ranging between 5-10fps at any random point. What was already a sluggish experience on original hardware becomes nearly unplayable at points on Xbox One. During an explosive encounter during the train sequence in the first mission, we encountered dips as low as 10fps. We suspect that forcing v-sync is to blame for the drop in performance, though CPU inefficiencies seen in many early Unreal Engine 3 titles may also be an issue. We'll be eager to see how the virtual machine evolves over the coming months and we can't wait until other Unreal Engine titles become available for testing, but for now, this is not the right way to experience the game.
Status: Sub-optimal and nearly unplayable in places.
As it stands, during both exploration and combat sequences, the game runs upwards of 30 per cent slower on Xbox One [/I]with a deviation ranging between 5-10fps at any random point. What was already a sluggish experience on original hardware becomes nearly unplayable at points on Xbox One. During an explosive encounter during the train sequence in the first mission, we encountered dips as low as 10fps. We suspect that forcing v-sync is to blame for the drop in performance, though CPU inefficiencies seen in many early Unreal Engine 3 titles may also be an issue. We'll be eager to see how the virtual machine evolves over the coming months and we can't wait until other Unreal Engine titles become available for testing, but for now, this is not the right way to experience the game.
Status: Sub-optimal and nearly unplayable in places.
If even a good percentage become good quality experiences, it will not be 'pointless', c'mon.
plasmawave
Banned
Impressive in what way?
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Don't you think it just match what DF saying, you don't need to "trust" which one more.
Yeah as in not via cloud streaming! Was pretty obvious what he meant imo.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Viva Pinata's a much better looking game than Mass Effect.
Brad Grenz
Member
Well, before they announced backwards compatibility the conventional wisdom was the Xbox One's CPU was simply not nearly fast enough to emulate the 360's. When MS promised "hundreds" of games by this holiday that threw some doubt on the matter. But after seeing the performance they are currently getting with the oldest 360 games it probably turns out we were right in the first place. Now their E3 announcement comes across as borderline irresponsible. Pinning our hopes and dreams on another bottle of "special sauce" is as foolish now as it has been since the Xbox One's specs first leaked.
That's not what 'native' means though.
Flintty
Member
Agreed and it works great and loads quicker than it did on 360.
Still so much salt over this though...
VE3TRO
Formerly Gizmowned
Well lets hope performance can be improved once its released to the public. I expect over the next weeks or months for updates to roll out for us preview members. Maybe they can offer us some options before playing like enable v-sync.
I'm interested to see how newer games perform such as Splinter Cell: Blacklist, Gears 3, XCOM or Bioshock Infinite.
I'm interested to see how newer games perform such as Splinter Cell: Blacklist, Gears 3, XCOM or Bioshock Infinite.
Dreadnought
Member
Native means it's running on the hardware, which it is.
Right. People are going to nitpick this, but obvious there isn't actual X360 hardware in the system...
ersocaster
Member
It's not emulation, it's virtualization.
Emulation translate old code to new hardware. Virtualization runs native code.
Any issues with frame rate and contrast, as well as resolution would have been no big deal; If this had been out a year ago.
I feel they missed their window of opportunity to really bring 360 gamers up, and back to the Xbox one.
Many have sold their consoles to move up, and usually that means games go as well.
Not everyone is a collector, and those that are tend to still have the system that runs them best.
This was a great move in my opinion, but just bad timing.
Xbox 360 had BC at launch, correct?
And so did the PS3.
At launch, it means the system is not barran, and you CAN play your old games on new hardware. almost 2 years after launch introducing BC? Nah, its a little late for most.
I feel they missed their window of opportunity to really bring 360 gamers up, and back to the Xbox one.
Many have sold their consoles to move up, and usually that means games go as well.
Not everyone is a collector, and those that are tend to still have the system that runs them best.
This was a great move in my opinion, but just bad timing.
Xbox 360 had BC at launch, correct?
And so did the PS3.
At launch, it means the system is not barran, and you CAN play your old games on new hardware. almost 2 years after launch introducing BC? Nah, its a little late for most.
Would microsofts approach to how their doing backwards compatibility on Xbox one have any effect on input lag ? Meaning , if they add let's say black ops 2, and they say you can play online against other 360 users , would this soulution, running inside in app as it appears to be cause any additional input lag ? I won't pretend to have any knowledge, just a general question since there is obviously emulation as well as scaling the image .
Your right. I guess i overreacted. Even though i thought 360's OG Xbox support was shitty, i still find it invaluable today as my OG Xbox is now broke, and i can only play the more popular games on that. Not being able to play DOA2U at all would truly be a shame.
No offense meant, but doing that is obviously twisting the meaning of "running an application natively". Using an emulator to run a game locally, instead of streaming it from a server, is not "running it natively". If it were a native application, the game wouldn't need an intermediary layer between itself and the hardware to "translate" the game into something the Xbox One can read (which is exactly what emulation does).
If this is another case of marketing changing established concepts to suit its needs, just like it did with "exclusive", then so be it. But let's not fool ourselves: emulated game do not run natively.
No. "Native" means that it is written to run directly on the hardware. These games are emulated: they need another program that bridges their coding and the hardware, since they otherwise wouldn't "click" with each other. It's the difference between "software backwards compatibility" (i.e. an emulator) and "hardware backwards compatibility" (i.e. actual hardware from a previous console inside the newer box, as early model PS3s used to have).
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Can someone post a less oblique angle screenshot of Viva Piñata on BC?
rokkerkory
Member
I see, I see. Do tell us more how you feel about the X1?
In the main X1 BC thread, many folks are having positive experience with most games in the preview program. They have some months to better the experience before it goes public. Like all things s/w, I expect it to improve but you seem to tie this back to other things for some reason.
As long as the visualization works, that is a purely academic differentiation that has no bearing on any consumer-facing discussion.
But I guess this is more about feeling good about ones favored platform, then having interesting technical discussions.
'Our' hopes and dreams? This is concern trolling at its finest.
It's emulator enhancements.. emulation hardware so they need to fix that.
The games run natively in the OS, the OS is emulated to run within the X1.
If the original code wasn't designed for the Xbox One hardware, it's still not running natively. It's a misleading use of the word no matter how you slice it.
Without a virtual machine. Running on a virtual machine isn't native. The code is still unchanged, but it still has to run through a virtual machine that with a high certainty isn't running the native code as effectively as the real machine.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I am still baffled why they choose Mass Effect to show off the BC feature. It performed horribly back then and still does now. Something like Halo 3 or Gears would have been a better choice.
I don't think anyone can argue that.
PSNow may work, but its not BC.
It is a subscription service for people that don't own any games, but still want to play them.
Also don't have to own a sony console to play them anymore it seems.
BC would have been awesome to have early on in the launch window of these consoles, but as sales have outpaced the need for it, I see no reason to focus on it now.
I won't say its bad to do it now, just late in my opinion.
DF assumes that this is the source of the performance problems, but I don't think that is a completely safe assumption, either. May well be that they'd still run worse, but with tearing on top of it.
Backfoggen
Banned
Seems like there is still a lot of work to be done until Holiday 2015.
Like I said above, the games run natively in the OS. The OS has been changed to run within the X1.
One of the developers posted on the X1 reddit, saying they've had to do little to no changes to support each of the games.
ersocaster
Member
There is no emulation.
Emulation translates hardware calls on the emulated system with software calls on the host system. It goes through an adapter and does not have direct access to the hardware.
Virtualization has direct access to the hardware. These games are running native code.
Yes, it is running natively. You cannot make up your own definition to suit your desires. A native game is one that is written for a specific platform. A software platform is still a platform. Microsoft virtualized the 360 OS. The games were made to run on the 360 OS. Therefore it is running natively per the definition.
Which depends on the code for every individual game how they actually perform. As it says in the article, there is concern the further you get from direct x9's basic framework and closer to the metal in 360 code.
If it ran natively, it wouldn't have required any changes at all and any Xbox 360 game would have worked.
I assumed it was part of the problem but I don't believe it's the only source of issues.
Well if you've got a 360 game which is practically written in assembly, and its doing things slightly different to the last game, your going to need to add more logic within the virtualisation layer.
The games are still running natively, its just the layer between the 360 OS / X1 hardware doing the work.
It's what I get from it. It wouldn't be native if they ran like:
Game > X1 OS/Hardware
But its:
Game > 360 OS > X1 OS/Hardware
Why split hairs on something in beta? If the game is running on the hardware without any outside support its as good as native, even if it is virtualized or emulated.
Gotcha.