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Star Citizen Backer Successfully Gets $2550 Refund

Bulk of the article text:

"A backer of the infamously expansive space shooter Star Citizen has argued for, and won, a sizeable refund on his $2550 pledge to the game on the grounds that “the product remains unfulfilled and no longer constitutes the product(s) I originally purchased.”

"It’s a long read, but in essence Streetroller is arguing that since Star Citizen has changed so much in scope since its initial reveal (adding a number of features and modes, like a first-person shooter), and since it’s still not out years after its first crowdfunding campaign, he’s entitled to a refund of the massive $2550 pledge he made to the game."

"He also claims to have been contacted by “an LA County investigator” asking for information on the game, who was told by Streetroller that he felt the game was a “scam”.

"A representative for Cloud Imperium tells Kotaku that “Any refunds with respect to Star Citizen are made on a discretionary basis. There was nothing special about this situation. The fact that this particular party used a complaint form that is online and openly available, doesn’t make this any different.”


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Link:

http://kotaku.com/report-star-citizen-backer-gets-2550-refund-1783699701

Thoughts, GAF? I feel that he was entitled to such a refund, given how long this game has been in development, but I could see how the argument could be made that crowdsourcing a game has its pitfalls and putting money down on something of this nature should be given more thought and contemplation. The idea of putting $2550 down on a VIDEO GAME makes me cringe, though...

Throw this out the airlock if old.
 

Isurus

Member
The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.
 
I'm of the opinion that Kickstarter/crowdfunding devs should just refund anyone who requests it. I'm dead sure the number of such requests is trivially small and it's just not worth the bad PR to deny them. And CIG has a ton of money so they can easily afford to do this.

The only time this becomes an issue is if the project is very close to the end and the funds might have been used up, or if a significant number of backers start asking for it.
 

wipeout364

Member
I will comment as a peripheral observer as I have not played the game but it feels like milestones are being met in the game and the developers seem to be communicating. The one problem I do see, though again as someone not too involved, is indeed the bloat that seems to be happening the developer seems to want to make the ultimate space game. I would compare it a little to duke Nukem where latest trends and engine updates and lack of focus resulted in milestones being shifted and changed which does seem to be a real danger here as well. Sometimes striving for perfection is not the best thing.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
How is this game not done? I thought they didn't expand from the initial scope and all the stretch goals were basically things like extra ships? Can someone maybe summarize what's happened scope-wise to make this game such an impossibility?
 
Game a total scam.

DayZ comparison is a bit off tho. DayZ had a successful and feature complete mod to base off of. The devs are just incompetent and can't set priorities.
 
How is this game not done? I thought they didn't expand from the initial scope and all the stretch goals were basically things like extra ships? Can someone maybe summarize what's happened scope-wise to make this game such an impossibility?
They decided to add an FPS portion, for example.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Glad I sold off my $300 Constellation years ago. Looking forward to playing Squadron 42... but got no drive to go space trucking around.
 

Starfield

Member
How the fuck do you spend willingly 2.5k on an unfinished game?

I backed it for 40$ just to get a starter ship since you can unlock and buy ships with ingame currency anyways.

Just wait until its out. theres plently of other stuff to do meanwhile
 

flkraven

Member
How the fuck do you spend willingly 2.5k on an unfinished game?

I backed it for 40$ just to get a starter ship since you can unlock and buy ships with ingame currency anyways.

Just wait until its out. theres plently of other stuff to do meanwhile

People spend tons of money on everything. Video games are no different.

If it's something their interested in and can afford it, all power to them.
 

Aselith

Member
How is this game not done? I thought they didn't expand from the initial scope and all the stretch goals were basically things like extra ships? Can someone maybe summarize what's happened scope-wise to make this game such an impossibility?

Well, they are making a videogame which takes time. They have made a lot of headway and there's a fair slice of content out there to play.

Wasn't that always there in the campaign, or am I misunderstanding what the campaign was meant to be?

Yes it was
 

patapuf

Member
It won't be finished any time soon. Its like DayZ, they spoke to much got too ambitious and now have to try and hit the target they set in terms of scope, which will never happen. Everyone who backed it is entitled to a refund.

How long do you think it takes to make an AAA game including building the studio for it? Waht's the "acceptable timeframe"?
 

Outrun

Member
I can relate. I really did not sign for fps. However, defenders of the game will probably point out some doc stating that this was a possibility.


I think at the end of the day, the lack of single player SQ42 release hurts this game currently.
 

Alienous

Member
The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.

Seemed like the backer's argument was that a change in scope (increased) directly resulted in a delay.

If I put money down on Yooka Laylee, with a proposed end of development time, and they decide to make an MMO of which the platforming is just a small segment, I think a refund is acceptable.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Glad I never pitched in. The level of jank that will pervade the entire thing even post 1.0 release would drive me up the wall.
 

WalTech

Member
The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.

Unfortunately for CIG/RSI the terms were very clear. 18 months after their own deadline, they said that they would offer refunds upon request. They wrote it into their own terms of service.

There is always a risk with crowd funding, yes, but that risk was mitigated by the terms of service they wrote. It's basically a written in guarantee that they failed to deliver on. Good on StreetRoller for flexing his rights and getting what was his, I say.
 

Outrun

Member
How long do you think it takes to make an AAA game including building the studio for it? Waht's the "acceptable timeframe"?

That is for each backer to individually determine. Some are happy, some are not. Those negating the concerns of other backers is not prudent.
 
Seemed like the backer's argument was that a change in scope (increased) directly resulted in a delay.

If I put money down on Yooka Laylee, with a proposed end of development time, and they decide to make an MMO of which the platforming is just a small segment, I think a refund is acceptable.
That's where I base my feelings on this. The game he backed is quite different from the game being developed in its current state. Definitely entitled to a refund.
 
Is this the Wing Commander style game?

Yes but no. Theres a single player campaign part of the game with mocap from mark Hamill and Gary Oldman thats suppose to be wing commander. But then there's a multiplayer component that promises to be a universe simulator with trading and space pirates and on foot combat and microtransactions but also in game money. The game is being worked on all the time by some sizable development teams. However the bloats definitely so great that it could still sink the project (or leave it half baked).
 

Mupod

Member
I had a friend/coworker who dropped 350 on it a very very long time ago. We got laid off a month later...wonder if he ever got a refund.

Me, I put 60 in because I wanted Squadron 42, rest of the game sounded like a far off pipe dream. Little did I know that the project would end up such a mess that Squadron 42 was also to be a far off pipe dream...
 

Merc_

Member
How the fuck do you spend willingly 2.5k on an unfinished game?

I backed it for 40$ just to get a starter ship since you can unlock and buy ships with ingame currency anyways.

Just wait until its out. theres plently of other stuff to do meanwhile

Heh.
 
Less text from the article would suffice to give them the proper clicks they deserve for scrounging up the data on the stuff on the first place.

I am not sure what the backer expected when he dumped XXXX USD into the game and why all of a sudden he thought that was a bad idea. The game increasing in scope post-KS is not too surprising considering you can see the backing goals going up each time until 65 Million was hit.

But more power to him I guess. He probably should have been a lot more weary with so much damn money in the first place if he is that impatient.
Do we have any idea of a release date on this ? Anything remotely vague ?

It depends on what you are asking about: SC as a 1.0 product (the MMO portion of the game) won't release in a complete state for a while. So who knows there.

But Squadron 42: the wing commander style campaign has a projected release date for the end of 2016 according to a trailer.
Me, I put 60 in because I wanted Squadron 42, rest of the game sounded like a far off pipe dream. Little did I know that the project would end up such a mess that Squadron 42 was also to be a far off pipe dream...

What is giving you the impression that the 'project is such a mess that SQ42 is also a far off pipe dream'?
 

2San

Member
I had a friend/coworker who dropped 350 on it a very very long time ago. We got laid off a month later...wonder if he ever got a refund.

Me, I put 60 in because I wanted Squadron 42, rest of the game sounded like a far off pipe dream. Little did I know that the project would end up such a mess that Squadron 42 was also to be a far off pipe dream...
It's actually kinda baffling that at least Squadron 42 isn't out yet.
 

~Cross~

Member
The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.

I dont know man, if you as a company try to reassure potential buyers of the legitimacy of your crowdsourcing campaign by offering them a no questions asked refund and then you go over the date you promised then you are definitely entitled to a refund.

Not only that, in countries where consumer protection is stronger all you have to do is tell them that you want a refund and they'll give it to you. In the UK/EU you pay VAT for buying a game package. This isnt a "donation", you are paying for a product and service.
 

phyrlord

Member
It won't be finished any time soon. Its like DayZ, they spoke to much got too ambitious and now have to try and hit the target they set in terms of scope, which will never happen. Everyone who backed it is entitled to a refund.

Yeah, it's one of those games that looks like it would take a huge game company 3-4 years to make. I think they really went out of scope with what backing a project should be for.
 

Hektor

Member
The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.

Yes the terms are clear. That's why the backer was in fact entitled to a refund. hence why he won the lawsuit.

By the time he backed the game, it stated that everybody is entitled to a refund in case of a delay that is bigger than 18 months.

Later on the terms were changed to a no refund policy but he won the lawsuit due to the fact that he backed the game before said change occurred and that these changes of terms therefore do not apply to him.

Good on him.
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
I'd almost forgotten about this game but good on getting a refund. It's way way delayed/overhyped and undelivered so far from what i've seen.
 
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