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[Gaogaogao]

Nah, it wont be until they scrap the entire thing to switch it to a new engine. It could be the new driv3r though

is this still using cryengine? if so, that could happen...

 

[Alienous]

Nah, it wont be until they scrap the entire thing to switch it to a new engine. It could be the new driv3r though

Isn't it using Cryengine currently?

I wouldn't blame anyone for counting that chicken before it hatches.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

is it still not finished?

At this point it probably won't ever be, just some perpetual alpha to which they'll periodically nail another plank or two.

I am not sure what the backer expected when he dumped XXXX USD into the game and why all of a sudden he thought that was a bad idea. The game increasing in scope post-KS is not too surprising considering you can see the backing goals going up each time until 65 Million was hit.

He expected the game to be out within the timeframe originally promised with the security of the no-questions refund policy initially backing that proposal should it miss said timeframe. It says it pretty clearly in the article. Don't be willfully ignorant.

 

[wesleyshark]

I'd almost forgotten about this game but good on getting a refund. It's way way delayed/overhyped and undelivered so far from what i've seen.

I check on it periodically, as I'm still *somewhat* interested as someone who enjoys space flight games, but it seems like the only time anyone reports on this game, it's about a new delay, or someone getting a refund, etc. The dripfeed of actual game updates and content announcements is slower than a crawl. Honestly doesn't seem like they'll ever finish it.

 

[kraspkibble]

i agree with the decision. anyone should be entitled to getting their money back if the project changes too much or takes too long.

personally i don't trust any of these crowdsourcing projects or early access games. you never know if you'll actually get the full game. just look at the state DayZ is in. i feel like that is a scam. star citizen looks like it could be a fantastic game but i wouldn't go near it until it's complete. if it never does get finished then it'll be for a good reason.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Game is a scam. The project managers should be fired.

 

[PanicFreak]

I don't think anyone one who pledges money on a Kickstarter which doesn't turn out to be a complete fraud is entitled to a refund.

 

[deleted]

If they are able to release Squadron 42 in the next half year and make some progress on the rest, all of this will be forgotten.

That is to say, Sq42 has to be actually good

I don't care about the delays, just make it work.

 

[Anoregon]

At this point it probably won't ever be, just some perpetual alpha to which they'll periodically nail another plank or two.

It certainly feels that way. I'm not going to ask for a refund of my $40 pledge, but I'm not actually expecting the game to ever be delivered. Or at least not in the form I was expecting when I put my money in. I've essentially chalked it up as a loss.

 

[Hektor]

I don't think anyone one who pledges money on a Kickstarter which doesn't turn out to be a complete fraud is entitled to a refund.

Then don't go out promising said refunds to your backers.

 

[charsace]

Always hilarious to see people who haven't played this game talk about it being a scam or out of scope. They update regularly and make good progress. What is in the beta right now is great stuff and makes me hungry for 1.0. If the game was shit like everyone who hasn't played it thinks it is, way more people would be crying for a refund.

 

[usp84]

Someone giving a company 2500 dollars for the promise of a great game.I dont know what to think about this

 

[Triggerhappytel]

How long do you think it takes to make an AAA game including building the studio for it? Waht's the "acceptable timeframe"?

That's the problem with crowdfunding, and consumers being involved from the beginning - a lot of these smaller games are probably going to take up to 3 years to develop, while as you point out something the scale of Star Citizen with hundreds of employees and tons of scope is probably going to be more like 5 years before it's entirely finished.

 

[epmode]

Someone giving a company 2500 dollars for the promise of a great game.I dont know what to think about this

This isn't uncommon for crowdfunded projects. It's how they get made.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

The terms are pretty clear, in my opinion. The backer wasn't entitled to anything. There is always risk involved with crowdsourcing.

Didn't they only recently change their terms of service with regards to refunds? i was under the assumption these new terms of service only applied to new backers and old backers would still be eligible for a refund, not 100% sure about this however, would love if somebody with more knowledge could clear it up. Heres the article i saw..http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-21-star-citizen-terms-of-service-update-makes-it-a-bit-harder-to-get-a-refund

 

[DedValve]

good for him.



well, this is wrong.

How so? Its an investment, not a purchase. There is a key difference here that people should really understand before going to sites like kickstarters. Investments may not get you any return, thats the risk involved with them. If they were selling this on the steam storefront and refused to give out a key then he would be entitled to a refund.

 

[Geist-]

I honestly don't understand anyone who gives that much money to a crowdfunding campaign and doesn't either trust the devs or have a realistic idea of how long the game will take to make. Especially since he apparently joined up in 2014, long after the scope was increased.

And btw, a guy on Reddit used the FOI act to see if there really was an investigation open, and apparently there is not. Take that as you will.

 

[patapuf]

How so? Its an investment, not a purchase. There is a key difference here that people should really understand before going to sites like kickstarters. Investments may not get you any return, thats the risk involved with them. If they were selling this on the steam storefront and refused to give out a key then he would be entitled to a refund.

They did promise the possiblity of a refund at the start.

Whatever ones feelings are about the game itself, i think it's ok to expect companies to own up to their promises.

 

[usp84]

This isn't uncommon for crowdfunded projects. It's how they get made.

I know that but it still doesn't make sense to me

 

[MoeDabs]

How so? Its an investment, not a purchase. There is a key difference here that people should really understand before going to sites like kickstarters. Investments may not get you any return, thats the risk involved with them. If they were selling this on the steam storefront and refused to give out a key then he would be entitled to a refund.

You are wrong. They are most definitely not an investment. More akin to donations with some vague promise of a product eventually.

 

[Sulik2]

I'd love to play Star Citizen, but at this point it feels like the video game version of pyramid scheme. Its been in development for way way too long.

 

[WalTech]

How so? Its an investment, not a purchase. There is a key difference here that people should really understand before going to sites like kickstarters. Investments may not get you any return, thats the risk involved with them. If they were selling this on the steam storefront and refused to give out a key then he would be entitled to a refund.

It's not really an investment, though. It's more like a pre-order. An investment has the chance to gain you money, or appreciate somehow. If you give CIG a thousand bucks, you just get some ships once the game launches and you get the game. To me, I'd say it's more of a pre-purchase than an investment, and if you don't deliver my purchase in a timely fashion, or if you deliver it in a state that's not what we agreed upon, then I should get my money back.

 

[Geist-]

Game a total scam.

DayZ comparison is a bit off tho. DayZ had a successful and feature complete mod to base off of. The devs are just incompetent and can't set priorities.

Game is a scam. The project managers should be fired.

Either you guys don't know what scam means or you're being purposefully hyperbolic

Either way, maybe you should actually do some research before you claim a company is committing criminal activity.

I'd love to play Star Citizen, but at this point it feels like the video game version of pyramid scheme. Its been in development for way way too long.

Pyramid scheme? Really? Do you know what a pyramid scheme is?

 

[Krejlooc]

Ah, time for another star citizen thread filled with people who havent payed any attention to the game, but want to pretend like they know what they are talking about.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

That's the problem with crowdfunding, and consumers being involved from the beginning - a lot of these smaller games are probably going to take up to 3 years to develop, while as you point out something the scale of Star Citizen with hundreds of employees and tons of scope is probably going to be more like 5 years before it's entirely finished.

Well we're coming up on at least 4 pretty soon, so they've got one more

 

[Shiz86]

Sadly, without crowd funding this game would never be made as the scope is far too large.

The concept is brilliant which is why it has generated so many backers. The trouble is, money doesn't solve everything.

As others have said, SC seems like a game that would take a very large and established studio 4-5 years to make, maybe longer.

I think serious backers of this project know this and are happy with the results so far despite being very keen for more content.

I haven't spent anything on SC but I'm grateful for the ones that have. When this game is finished it should be epic and I cant wait to buy it on release.

 

[univbee]

It's not really an investment, though. It's more like a pre-order. An investment has the chance to gain you money, or appreciate somehow. If you give CIG a thousand bucks, you just get some ships once the game launches and you get the game. To me, I'd say it's more of a pre-purchase than an investment, and if you don't deliver my purchase in a timely fashion, or if you deliver it in a state that's not what we agreed upon, then I should get my money back.

This, and most countries (although not the US) have decent consumer protection laws that clearly define these things and legally mandate refundability before product is delivered, and it doesn't matter what the TOS/EULA says because it doesn't trump federal law.

 

[MUnited83]

Yes the terms are clear. That's why the backer was in fact entitled to a refund. hence why he won the lawsuit.

By the time he backed the game, it stated that everybody is entitled to a refund in case of a delay that is bigger than 18 months.

Later on the terms were changed to a no refund policy but he won the lawsuit due to the fact that he backed the game before said change occurred and that these changes of terms therefore do not apply to him.

Good on him.

What lawsuit?

 

[Krejlooc]

It's more like a pre-order. An investment has the chance to gain you money, or appreciate somehow. If you give CIG a thousand bucks, you just get some ships once the game launches and you get the game. To me, I'd say it's more of a pre-purchase than an investment, and if you don't deliver my purchase in a timely fashion, or if you deliver it in a state that's not what we agreed upon, then I should get my money back.

Thisbis absolutely incorrect and exactly the wrong mentality. Crowd funding is NOT preordering. It is much more like a donation. If you have the mindset that your donation is a preorder, then save yourself some headache and skip the campaign because crowdfunding isn't for you.

 

[Bold One]

People kept throwing untold amounts at the devs and then get surprised when the game doesnt come out.

Why release a game if you can just keep getting money.

 

[MUnited83]

I check on it periodically, as I'm still *somewhat* interested as someone who enjoys space flight games, but it seems like the only time anyone reports on this game, it's about a new delay, or someone getting a refund, etc. The dripfeed of actual game updates and content announcements is slower than a crawl. Honestly doesn't seem like they'll ever finish it.

Doesnt seem you are checking enough, games still gets lots of updates.

 

[epmode]

Ah, time for another star citizen thread filled with people who havent payed any attention to the game, but want to pretend like they know what they are talking about.

Yeah, Star Citizen has always attracted the CROWDFUNDING IS A SCAM types.

While I'd like to see faster updates, building a AAA-scale studio from scratch and finishing such an ambitious game takes a very long time.

 

[dancrane212]

All I wanted was modern, modest, Wing Commander successor. Things have changed so much since I initially backed the game I really have no idea what that Squadron 42 is even going to look like at this point.

After the teased campaign demo ended up being aggressively underwhelming the game is on my back-burner. If it the game releases and is fantastic than that's wonderful, but for the moment I'm done following it.

 

[Geist-]

If people want to really know the progress of the game right now, watch the latest AtV 100 4 parter episodes. They're doing Studio specific episodes that show off everything they've been working on and their work environments. Very informative and next Thursday will be Frankfurt, where they will hopefully be showing off the Procedural Tech.

Part 1: LA Studio

Part 2: Foundry 42: Manchester

Part 3: Austin Studio

 

[Wereroku]

Ah, time for another star citizen thread filled with people who havent payed any attention to the game, but want to pretend like they know what they are talking about.

Yep this isn't a scam or anything it's just a case of feature creep and normal development times. Anyway the only reason this backer received a refund is because the company had originally agreed to give them in their earlier TOS. Looking at most of the info a small claims court would have probably sided with the customer anyway and then they would have had to cover court costs as well.

 

[Krejlooc]

Doesnt seem you are checking enough, games still gets lots of updates.

Lol of course. The last update was only 6 days ago, in fact

 

[Hektor]

What lawsuit?

Guess i must've misunderstood the attorney part. Doesn't really change what my post is about tho.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

i got a refund for starbound because it stayed in beta for so long and they failed to deliver on what they promised. the devs told me too bad but humblebundle actually listened and refunded me.

it's a valid stance

 

[cyress8]

Guy got his money back only because CIG did not want to waste cash on using their lawyers. Cheaper just to give him the money back. Pretty normal in the business sector.

 

[Krejlooc]

Yep this isn't a scam or anything it's just a case of feature creep

Oh hey check it out, its one of those people i described

 

[artsi]

I started playing after 2.0 and I've been enjoying all the updates, already worth my money. Can't wait to see how it plays in 1-2 years.

 

[PandaShake]

It's not really an investment, though. It's more like a pre-order. An investment has the chance to gain you money, or appreciate somehow. If you give CIG a thousand bucks, you just get some ships once the game launches and you get the game. To me, I'd say it's more of a pre-purchase than an investment, and if you don't deliver my purchase in a timely fashion, or if you deliver it in a state that's not what we agreed upon, then I should get my money back.

And even then, this is more like a donation than a pre-order. With a pre-order, you can cancel and get your deposit back before the game ships. With kickstarter, if the project fails, you're not entitled to anything. If someone in the team decides to take the kickstarter money to build a house in Canada instead, you're SOL without building a case.

 

[charsace]

I'd love to play Star Citizen, but at this point it feels like the video game version of pyramid scheme. Its been in development for way way too long.

Pyramid scheme? You are really spewing bullshit right now.

I think its hilarious that people think this is an attempt to steal. This is Chris Roberts making the game he has always wanted to make since he's been in the industry. This is not some random dude who has never made a game, working by himself on an ambitious game idea, thinking he can hire half a dozen free lancers to achieve his goal.

 

[Dictator93]

He expected the game to be out within the timeframe originally promised with the security of the no-questions refund policy initially backing that proposal should it miss said timeframe. It says it pretty clearly in the article. Don't be willfully ignorant.

Oh I am not being willfully ignorant, I am just doing a bit of deep-hermeneutics and actually doubting that he/she (the backer in question here) expected that because it seems borderline-idiotic given the money invested and all the contextual clues, backer updates, and monthly reports since the intial 30 day campaign.

Yep. I am doubting the the person's self-described expectations.

 

[Gaogaogao]

I started playing after 2.0 and I've been enjoying all the updates, already worth my money. Can't wait to see how it plays in 1-2 years.

oh ffs

 

[WalTech]

Thisbis absolutely incorrect and exactly the wrong mentality. Crowd funding is NOT preordering. It is much more like a donation. If you have the mindset that your donation is a preorder, then save yourself some headache and skip the campaign because crowdfunding isn't for you.

I don't see it as a donation either, because their own language is very much speaking about purchasing things. They have regular "Ship Sales" and "Concept Sales". They charge sales tax on the money you spend, which donations do not need to do. Legally, it's not donating and in practice it's not donating, either. People are buying goods and if they aren't delivered I don't see why someone can't claim their money back.

And I have skipped the campaign. I was quite interested previously but decided to wait it out and buy it upon release, if it's any good.

 

[Geist-]

And even then, this is more like a donation than a pre-order. With a pre-order, you can cancel and get your deposit back before the game ships. With kickstarter, if the project fails, you're not entitled to anything. If someone in the team decides to take the kickstarter money to build a house in Canada instead, you're SOL without building a case.

It's stuff like this that will probably lead to more stringent laws concerning crowdfunding, it's so sad seeing so many campaigns tainted because a few assholes don't want to meet their obligations.

What I wish people would understand about Star Citizen is that they give us project updates every month, every week, and sometimes every day. It's information overload, so I understand why not everyone wants to inform themselves, but I wish they would at least try if they are going to start throwing accusations.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't see it as a donation either, because their own language is very much speaking about purchasing things.

Really? What were you purchasing at the $10 tier?

Crowdfunding is NOT a pre-order.

 

[Azubah]

I like how they kept on changing their terms of service.

 

[DMczaf]

I wouldn't say it's a scam, but Star Citizen seems like a great case study for why good project managers are important