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Crossplay is pushed by the underdog

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F

filly

Member
Having followed this industry for around 15 years now, I seem to remember (please correct me if I'm wrong), that when the PS3 was around it was Microsoft stone walling cross play with the 360. I'm struggling to find the source of this info however, so I might be talking rubbish.

But if my memory does serve me right, this cross-play issue that is being presented to us is a mechanic used to frame a company as anti-consumer when the have the higher install base (which is a correct Judgement, lack of cross-play is anti-consumer). Microsoft are being just as strategic by pushing cross play as Sony are by not allowing it. The timing of this: Microsoft pushes it at the exact same point where someone can gloat about a superior console specification - over cross-play. Nintendo doesn't care, their fight was never with specification of their console, just gameplay, having more people to play with improves that.

If you need a good example, lets take Destiny. If cross play was enabled, I would absolutely be getting that on the X (or PC). I prefer the controls and it would probably be more stable. All my Destiny friends are on PS4 and there is no cross play. So you know I only have one choice.

Having said that, personally as consumer I am of course all for it! I would love them to sort out their differences and just compete one specs, gameplay and customer service. But it should be of no surprise that install base is also a point of competition. One that is always going to be protected by either side that has the majority lead.

I guess people are surprised because we thought new Sony were better than that. Doing things to delight and surprise its customers has been why a lot of us have been such enthusiastic supporters.

It's just a shame that I can't sit at home on my PS4 with Rocket League and play with my friend on his Switch.

Update: I found one source an article posted on Kotaku in 2011 about Defiance! Needed to know I'm not going crazy....

As cool as this sneak peek was, Trion can't let the finished Xbox 360 game connect to the PS3. "Microsoft won't let Sony players play against them," Rodberg said, before suggesting we change the topic to something less sensitive. Presumably the barrier is a corporate and/or technical incompatibility between the Xbox 360's Xbox Live and Sony's PS3/PSP PlayStation Network. Those services are separate enough that people who play, say, Call of Duty on one, can't play that game against owners of the other, rival console.
Click to expand...

http://kotaku.com/5813740/i-saw-the-playstation-3-wired-to-play-against-an-xbox-360-but-you-wont
 
E

EvilKatarn

Member
filly said:
Having followed this industry for around 15 years now, I seem to remember (please correct me if I'm wrong), that when the PS3 was around it was Microsoft stone walling cross play with the 360. I'm struggling to find the source of this info however, so I might be talking rubbish.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to recall it as well and the main game that pops into my mind is Final Fantasy XI for some reason.
 
O

Oersted

Member
The first cross play game on Nintendo 3DS was Pure Chess and that handheld console was not really an underdog in 2014.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I definitely see your point.

There's also the fact that the example of Minecraft is a Microsoft game on a Sony console. It's easy to talk about how open Microsoft is in wanting crossplay, and how closed Sony is in disallowing it.... but are we 100% sure that if Sony published Uncharted 4 on Xbox One that Microsoft would allow you to log in to your PSN account?
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
EvilKatarn said:
I've been trying to recall it as well and the main game that pops into my mind is Final Fantasy XI for some reason.
Click to expand...

FFXIV. They got FFXI on 360 easy because Microsoft wanted Square on their console at any cost. Never allowed it again during 360 days. I actually wanted a PS2 or PS3 (backwards compatible) only server. PC people hacking pissed me off in that game. China gil farmers too. I was sad when SE removed the ability for beastmaster to kill the nearly afk gold farmers that showed up to camps with armies of characters and most likely bot claim tools.

FFXIV remains to be PC PS4 PS3 only, Storm Blood just launched for early access about a hour ago (PS3 not included, dropped. No cross play for PS3!).
 
L

Lom1lo

Member
I feel people forget the change in leadership and direction of microsoft when comparing this Situation to the 360 days.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Spider_Jerusalem said:
That's not how cross-play works.

You log in with your XBL account and play with gamers on PSN/PC/Nintendo. Not the opposite.
Click to expand...

That is how Minecraft on Nintendo Switch works. You log in with your Microsoft account.

Would Microsoft allow the reverse? Many aspects of the new open Microsoft would say "hell yeah".... but I wouldn't be surprised if there are apparatus' in the company that would stop it anyway.
 
S

SplitYourInfinities

Member
As a shareholder, I think it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Also I prefer Sony to keep their walled garden so I don't have to deal with filthy Xbox and Switch players. And the most important thing, this uproar seems fabricated by console warriors just to make Sony look like the bad guy.

Don't give in into crossplay guys.
 
B

bennibop

Member
Totally agree with you OP, this week Micrsoft seems to be going out its way to try and hurt Sonys reputation. Its a shame most people cant see through it.

They also forget that PS4/PS3 already has cross play and has done so for years and Microsoft were previously blocking hance why no FFxiv on X1.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
BocoDragon said:
That is how Minecraft on Nintendo Switch works. You log in with your Microsoft account.
Click to expand...

That's only because MS is the publisher of the game too. It's the same as logging into a Square Enix playonline account to log into FF14 or FF11. If Sony published a game on xbox I would expect it to use a PSN ID, but since that's not exactly going to be a common thing it's not REALLY a concern. You don't use your XBL to log into say, Rocket LEague, for example, just to play cross-play.
 
E

EvilKatarn

Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
FFXIV. They got FFXI on 360 easy because Microsoft wanted Square on their console at any cost. Never allowed it again during 360 days. I actually wanted a PS2 or PS3 (backwards compatible) only server. PC people hacking pissed me off in that game. China gil farmers too. I was sad when SE removed the ability for beastmaster to kill the nearly afk gold farmers that showed up to camps with armies of characters and most likely bot claim tools.

FFXIV remains to be PC PS4 PS3 only, Storm Blood just launched for early access about a hour ago (PS3 not included, dropped. No cross play for PS3!).
Click to expand...

doh, I even play XIV. How did I mess that up.
 
S

Savantcore

Unconfirmed Member
Kenzodielocke said:
So Sony doesn't want this because it gives Microsoft more MAU's?
Click to expand...

It's probably because when you have an Xbox account, you'll start getting Xbox emails, then you'll start seeing Xbox deals, then the Xbox games available, then all of a sudden you've bought into the Xbox ecosystem and that's less time and money you're spending on PlayStation.

It sounds farfetched to us but it's exactly the kind of thing that works on thousands of people.
 
T

tzare

Member
filly said:
Having followed this industry for around 15 years now, I seem to remember (please correct me if I'm wrong), that when the PS3 was around it was Microsoft stone walling cross play with the 360. I'm struggling to find the source of this info however, so I might be talking rubbish.

But if my memory does serve me right, this cross-play issue that is being presented to us is a mechanic used to frame a company as anti-consumer when the have the higher install base (which is a correct Judgement, lack of cross-play is anti-consumer). Microsoft are being just as strategic by pushing cross play as Sony are by not allowing it. The timing of this: Microsoft pushes it at the exact same point where someone can gloat about a superior console specification - over cross-play. Nintendo doesn't care, their fight was never with specification of their console, just gameplay, having more people to play with improves that.

If you need a good example, lets take Destiny. If cross play was enabled, I would absolutely be getting that on the X (or PC). I prefer the controls and it would probably be more stable. All my Destiny friends are on PS4 and there is no cross play. So you know I only have one choice.

Having said that, personally as consumer I am of course all for it! I would love them to sort out their differences and just compete one specs, gameplay and customer service. But it should be of no surprise that install base is also a point of competition. One that is always going to be protected by either side that has the majority lead.

I guess people are surprised because we thought new Sony were better than that. Doing thing to delight and surprise its customers has been why a lot of us have been such enthusiastic supporters.

It's just a shame that I can't sit at home on my PS4 with Rocket League and play with my friend on his Switch.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree with you.
In fact the ones pushing crossplay right now do it for their own interest, not the gamers, and sony does the same, not allowing for now because their interest comes first.
If this has to be a thing, the whole industry must reach a standard and some agreements instead of being a single game.
And well, then there's the usual forum/internet reactions, that is interesting too

It's probably because when you have an Xbox account, you'll start getting Xbox emails, then you'll start seeing Xbox deals, then the Xbox games available, then all of a sudden you've bought into the Xbox ecosystem and that's less time and money you're spending on PlayStation.

It sounds farfetched to us but it's exactly the kind of thing that works on thousands of people.
Click to expand...
Bingo
You are one step closer to the other side.

A standard online service you could log in from your provider, be it PSN/XBL/Steam/Nintendo and then allow interconnection with anyone should be the way to go.


edit. Doesn't help some PR saying stupid things, like the sony one on protecting their 'young' users. Only adds fuel to the fire.
 
A

Arulan

Member
This is a common occurrence with competition among corporations, but it's especially egregious when closed-platforms are involved.

They have you trapped on their platform. For most people, they've had to make a financial investment to get there. In addition, every game that you purchase is another incentive to stay. Subscription services often add other incentives. Every single action or feature available is dictated by the platform-holder. It's easy to see how these platform-holders can take advantage of their users when it's convenient for them to do so.
 
S

ScientificPizza

Banned
bennibop said:
Totally agree with you OP, this week Micrsoft seems to be going out its way to try and hurt Sonys reputation. Its a shame most people cant see through it.

They also forget that PS4/PS3 already has cross play and has done so for years and Microsoft were previously blocking hance why no FFxiv on X1.
Click to expand...
Poor Sony :(
 
M

meirl

Banned
Savantcore said:
It's probably because when you have an Xbox account, you'll start getting Xbox emails, then you'll start seeing Xbox deals, then the Xbox games available, then all of a sudden you've bought into the Xbox ecosystem and that's less time and money you're spending on PlayStation.

It sounds farfetched to us but it's exactly the kind of thing that works on thousands of people.
Click to expand...

its only for Minecraft. for rocket league crossplay you do NOT need an XBL ACC
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
TheYanger said:
That's only because MS is the publisher of the game too. It's the same as logging into a Square Enix playonline account to log into FF14 or FF11. If Sony published a game on xbox I would expect it to use a PSN ID, but since that's not exactly going to be a common thing it's not REALLY a concern. You don't use your XBL to log into say, Rocket LEague, for example, just to play cross-play.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree that Rocket League is exempt from this issue. Just that it makes Minecraft a weak litmus test to determine Sony's ultimate stance on crossplay. I could see logging into a Microsoft Account on PS4 being a sticking point even if crossplay were technically on the table.

Personally I don't think logging into competing services should be a problem in this day and age. Every service has an API that links up with everything else in most aspects of our modern life.
 
U

Usobuko

Banned
My stance is just because it's in the interest of the underdog doesn't mean my own interest should be overlooked by Sony.

Then again, the cross play I want is for Monster Hunter, especially for PC and PS4.

SplitYourInfinities said:
As a shareholder, I think it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Also I prefer Sony to keep their walled garden so I don't have to deal with filthy Xbox and Switch players. And the most important thing, this uproar seems fabricated by console warriors just to make Sony look like the bad guy.

Don't give in into crossplay guys.
Click to expand...

Can't tell if serious or sarcastic, though you're not wrong it's getting more noise by other console warriors while Sony ones put up defence against them.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
With Minecraft 4k I think it has something to do with DLC. The DLC will be unified I hear. Will sony get side stepped when PSN players buy DLC on PC because it was cheaper during a crazy sale, then access it on their PS4?

When PC games with their own client move to steam it's a big decision. Marvel Heroes did it and now give steam a cut for things bought by accounts that ever tried the steam version, even if they stopped using it. The account is tagged as a steam account in Marvel Heroes (said David Brevik, former CEO. "It was worth it").
 
T

The Real Napsta

Member
BocoDragon said:
I definitely see your point.

There's also the fact that the example of Minecraft is a Microsoft game on a Sony console. It's easy to talk about how open Microsoft is in wanting crossplay, and how closed Sony is in disallowing it.... but are we 100% sure that if Sony published Uncharted 4 on Xbox One that Microsoft would allow you to log in to your PSN account?
Click to expand...
Account log in isn't the issue.

See: Rocket League
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
bennibop said:
Totally agree with you OP, this week Micrsoft seems to be going out its way to try and hurt Sonys reputation. Its a shame most people cant see through it.

They also forget that PS4/PS3 already has cross play and has done so for years and Microsoft were previously blocking hance why no FFxiv on X1.
Click to expand...
This has to be satire, right?
 
B

big_z

Member
Walled multiplayer has always been on the bigger downsides to consoles. I understand why it happened especially with companies wanting you to pay for their services but now the services have been expanded beyond just multiplayer so segregating players has become outdated. It's a stupid practice, it would be like if NVidia made it so you cant play with AMD users. I understand why sony still likes it, especially with how they like to buy up content with marketing deals but hopefully by the end of this gen online multiplayer will be cross platform all around.




bennibop said:
Totally agree with you OP, this week Micrsoft seems to be going out its way to try and hurt Sonys reputation. Its a shame most people cant see through it.
Click to expand...

lol come on now, cross play benefits gamers not companies and it's not like Sony isn't known for shitting on the competition. Sonys early ps4 marketing strategy was using Microsoft's missteps against them.
 
T

The Greek Freak

Member
Sony would be dumb to allow it. Being the market leader has a snowball effect. Your friends are all on psn so you buy a ps4 just like last gen with the 360.

I'm also highly skeptical about how many people actually want it besides liking the idea or console warz bs just like the two week period last gen when certain people got mad about it.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The Real Napsta said:
Account log in isn't the issue.

See: Rocket League
Click to expand...

As I said above.

But I was talking about the example of Minecraft in this discussion.

GhostTrick said:
Explain Rocket League then.
Click to expand...

No. My post is about the example of Minecraft being worth nothing.

BassForever said:
But then why can't rocket league on ps4 cross play with switch? The rl devs called out sony saying "why was it cool to cross play with pc which is far less secure, but with Nintendo we need to keep our garden secure"

Sony is also the same company that initially denied mods on consoles.

Sony fans can justify this however they want, the fact is they're now getting an objectively inferior game for no reason.
Click to expand...

Same as above, etc.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
When the interest of the underdog meats the interest of the consumer it ends up with Sony being the jerk in this story.

This is not only about Minecraft for which Sony can use the lame excuse that it uses Xbox live as a backbone, but it's also valid for Rocket League and it was also the case for Pure Chess in the past. There's no excuse for those.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
BocoDragon said:
I definitely see your point.

There's also the fact that the example of Minecraft is a Microsoft game on a Sony console. It's easy to talk about how open Microsoft is in wanting crossplay, and how closed Sony is in disallowing it.... but are we 100% sure that if Sony published Uncharted 4 on Xbox One that Microsoft would allow you to log in to your PSN account?
Click to expand...



Explain Rocket League then.
 
T

TsuWave

Member
i think its crazy that people expect sony to open their larger userbase to other platform holders. like just give away one of their biggest competitive advantages.

they would lose money because like the op said many people that buy software on their platform to play with friends and/or just bigger communities for certain games, wouldn't have to do it anymore. doesn't majority of the money in the gaming industry come from software sales and locking you up to their ecosystem?

i find the whole thing unrealistic.
 
B

BassForever

Member
BocoDragon said:
Yeah I agree that Rocket League is exempt from this issue. Just that it makes Minecraft a weak litmus test to determine Sony's ultimate stance on crossplay. I could see logging into a Microsoft Account on PS4 being a sticking point even if crossplay were technically on the table.

Personally I don't think logging into competing services should be a problem in this day and age. Every service has an API that links up with everything else in most aspects of our modern life.
Click to expand...

But then why can't rocket league on ps4 cross play with switch? The rl devs called out sony saying "why was it cool to cross play with pc which is far less secure, but with Nintendo we need to keep our garden secure"

Sony is also the same company that initially denied mods on consoles.

Sony fans can justify this however they want, the fact is they're now getting an objectively inferior game for no reason.
 
G

gamz

Member
It's being pushed by Multiplats that are MP for obvious reason. The more the merrier. That will continue to happen because the technology is there to do it.

Has nothing to do with underdogs or what not. Minecraft and RL are certainly not underdogs.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Busaiku said:
PC and mobile are the underdogs now?
Click to expand...

Let's be real, the main games that MS wants crossplatform aren't indie games, they're AAA games that would likely only be crossplatform between the PS4 and Xbox One. An example I gave in the other thread was Monster Hunter World. The overwhelming majority of players are going to be on the PS4. And in particular for Japan this would be the case. Because if they can get that in place then suddenly they can market the Xbox One X in a different way by telling people not only will you have the best versions of multiplatform games, but you also won't have to worry about userbase as there's crossplatform with the biggest userbase.

That's how Sony is going to be looking at this. There's literally nothing in it for them aside from a bit of positive PR, while there's a big benefit for MS having this happen.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
TsuWave said:
i think its crazy that people expect sony to open their larger userbase to other platform holders. like just give away one of their biggest competitive advantages.

they would lose money because like the op said many people that buy software on their platform to play with friends and/or just bigger communities for certain games, wouldn't have to do it anymore.
Click to expand...



Crazy indeed that some people may think a company may see benefit in pleasing their userbase.
Also, PC/Mobile/XB1/Switch userbase on Minecraft >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS4 userbase on Minecraft.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
TsuWave said:
i think its crazy that people expect sony to open their larger userbase to other platform holders. like just give away one of their biggest competitive advantages.

they would lose money because like the op said many people that buy software on their platform to play with friends and/or just bigger communities for certain games, wouldn't have to do it anymore.
Click to expand...

I think for both Minecraft and Rocket League the userbase is bigger on the other platforms combined than Sony's. So again a false argument.
 
B

BADMAN

Member
CookTrain said:
wK3Rx0g.jpg
Click to expand...

From the other thread. It's too perfect not to have here as well.
 
O

Oregano

Member
Sony allows crossplay for DQX because they wouldn't get the game otherwise and they're weaker in Japan.

So yeah it's blatant what their standards are.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Ehh, Steam, the undisputed heavy weight champ, allows crossplay with no qualms at all.

It seems like confining ones customers to online play within the home network is a fairly logical way to leverage ones large installed base. A new potential customer could potentially have 2 friends on PS4 playing "popular game x" vs 1 friend on Xbox.

But that logic falls apart when you start combining the game's populations across several networks:

In addition to 1 friend on Xbox, this new potential customer might have a friend on PC, and a friend on switch. One of those PS4 players might own a gaming PC. The other PS4 might have two little cousins on switch. Now it starts to make sense for a group of friends to collectively buy a version of the game that has crossplay.

Suddenly, the advantage of having more friends on tenuous as it becomes more valuable to own non-PS4 versions of games.

The less progressive tend to be the ones to block crossplay. I think it happens that the underdog is usually the most progressive. But Sony was open to crossplay and developer run servers way back in the PS4 days. They forgot where they came from.
 
M

Mix Master

Member
SplitYourInfinities said:
As a shareholder, I think it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Also I prefer Sony to keep their walled garden so I don't have to deal with filthy Xbox and Switch players. And the most important thing, this uproar seems fabricated by console warriors just to make Sony look like the bad guy.

Don't give in into crossplay guys.
Click to expand...

Is this a Meme?
 
P

Podge293

Member
The problem I see with it is that Sony already do cross play. Hell they do it with rocket league. The problem is they don't wanna play ball with Microsoft in the console realm and the excuses they give are utter toss.

I'm not saying people would be happy if they came out and said "were winning why give ms a boost" but at least they wouldn't be viewing us as idiots
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
Microsoft is no longer concerned with selling you consoles, if they can sell you on their games in any way, they are content with that (The xbox guy mentioned this. Phil? forgot his name. The "I believe in ___" guy). They are looking at a bigger picture. I have a feeling Minecraft will be used as kick off point. Why require Xbox Live log in? Well, I guess I can understand why, but they should have stuck with the normal Minecraft log in if they cared enough for cross play negotiations. This might have killed their chances, and they might know it and are ok with it. They got people doing their job now, trying to sell Minecraft crossplay so maybe it'll work.

If Xbox Live is the hub for crossplay, that would be a big win for MS. What middle ground would be suitable as a standard crossplay service? Steam? GOG? Intel something?
 
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