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343 Industries' Josh Holmes explains design decisions in Halo 5

Killer

Banned
I’m going to try my best to explain some of the thinking behind the inclusion of sprint and other abilities so that you can better understand where we are coming from. Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light. I should also mention that while I am going to try and summarize a bunch of shared thoughts and experiential goals from our team, it’s impossible for me to represent each individual team member’s perspective. We spend countless hours discussing and debating everything that goes into the game as a natural part of development and it’s tough to do justice to that ongoing discourse here.

Now, to take a quick step back and talk more generally about goals for H5G and Spartan Abilities…

One of the fundamental goals that we start with for the game is “immersion,” which I’ll just use as shorthand for creating and maintaining an active sense of belief on the part of the player in everything that they are experiencing. This unpacks to a lot more complexity than I am going to dive into, but at the most basic level we are trying to simulate the act of a bipedal hero moving through an environment from first person perspective. We want to convince the player that this illusion is true. We start with questions like: what would it feel like to move? To shoot? Upon that foundation we consider the actions and capabilities that should be available to a Spartan on the battlefield. What are the unique capabilities available to a Spartan? How should those feel? This is based on established lore and our individual perceptions. To achieve an immersive experience, we first ground our portrayal of actions in what it feels like to be a human being in our world (that’s the common lens that we all use as reference) and then we adapt those actions to reflect what it would be like to be a kick-ass Spartan wrapped in Mjolnir assault armor.

The desire to maximize immersion goes beyond just the portrayal of actions themselves and extends to the possibility space that should exist for players within the moment-to-moment of combat. What options or choices would I as a Spartan expect to have within combat? Gunplay is obviously paramount, and we focus a crazy amount of time on nailing the feel of firing the weapons in our game to make sure that they have weight and impact. In addition to rock-solid gunplay, with H5G we are striving to provide a focused suite of mobility-based actions that reinforce the experience of fighting as a Spartan. We specifically chose to focus on mobility because it was the part of the Spartan experience that we felt was the most under-developed and had the most promise to deliver a fresh and exciting new play experience for Halo. It’s something that we started talking about midway through Halo 4 and it became a foundational part of the design intention for Halo 5.

We want each of the new abilities to expand the possibility space for competitive combat in meaningful ways. They should provide players with new tools to create on the battlefield and present interesting choices on both sides of an encounter. At the same time we don’t want these tools to result in imbalance or chaos. When Halo is working well there is structure and flow to the combat, with a unique back-and-forth, move / counter-move experience that provides depth and opportunities to enhance the skill gap between players. That’s what we’ve been focusing on for Halo 5 MP.

Some of the Spartan Abilities are core mobility options like Clamber, Sprint and Thruster that allow for more fluid and natural movement through the environment. They should augment combat in interesting ways, when used effectively. Other abilities are offensive in nature and more oriented toward “crowd-pleaser” moves (like Charge or Ground Pound) that provide a big punctuation point in a match. At a competitive level you are not going to see many GPs attempted in close games because the risk is too high. But when someone does go for it and manages to land it, they deliver a big wow moment that pays off both for them and the viewers of the match.

Going back to sprint… why have it in Halo?

As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.

Anyway, sorry for rambling a bit. I started writing and this got long. Hopefully there are some nuggets of sense in there. TLDR; sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat, it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of, it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well, it is being carefully balanced, it’s something that most Halo players expect, and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role.

I will let you all be the judges as you play the beta but I believe that we are doing a much better job of designing the maps around the core mechanics with Halo 5. A big reason for that is the fact that we nailed down the core focus for gameplay early. When we start releasing some of the behind-the-scenes footage from the development of Halo 5 next week, you will see that we’ve been playing with this core set of abilities for the better part of two years. This has allowed us enough time to refine and iterate on map design with the abilities in mind. The other big change has been the addition of our internal pro team. They have been invaluable in helping us to identify issues with mechanics and map design that become obvious at the highest level of skilled play, and we’ve had the time and focus to react to that feedback.

Finally I want you to know that we do listen to you guys. As mentioned, I lurk here often to read through the forums. So do a lot of people at 343, particularly our MP and Sandbox teams. Keep in mind that there are many different inputs that we consider when we make decisions about core aspects of the game. Literally none of those are corporate hacks up the chain. Not all decisions will be ones that you agree with. Nevertheless, I appreciate the passion that we all share as Halo fans, even when we may disagree. I will be in here reading your feedback throughout the beta and I hope that you guys will share your thoughts when you play. Who knows, I may even keep posting… depending on how this goes. ;-)

/Josh

Source

Copy Call of Duty if old.

h2MTcl9.png

 

Pudge

Member
So it's all about "immersion" and making spectators happy, with almost nothing about how it will improve gameplay. Only change it up.

They have the wrong focus, I don't care if I "feel like a Spartan", I care if the game is fun to play.
 

E92 M3

Member
I think they should focus on appeasing the core Halo fans and the good word will spread out from there. Look at games like Bioshock - a game not designed for the general public. It became a huge hit with everyone that played and the word spread. I believe that by focusing to the main community, the sales will come from there.
 

Magwik

Banned
After Halo 4 I'd much rather someone explain to me why he has a job with creative input. I don't give a shit about immersion how about a fun game and stop taking Halo so seriously
While I do appreciate the long and thought out post from him, his Sprint argument is "it is expected and we don't want to fracture SP and MP with Sprint"
So don't fracture it and just not have it?
Also lol at "It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense" it's used to run away or run towards an enemy.
 

Card Boy

Banned
Didn't Halo 3 sell like 15 million copies? Why the fuck do they need to copy COD when the traditional gameplay stands up on its own?
 

RE_Player

Member
I read the whole explanation. Would have been much easier to say they are trying to court some of the younger shooter audience that are used to Call of Duty type controls and feel.

Best of luck to 343. Even though I disliked Halo 4 and MCC has an abysmal launch I would like to see them be successful and make Halo their own.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
I must be of the extreme minority opinion that sprint was not the issue with Halo Reach or Halo 4. In fact, I prefer it to the god awful snail's pace that is Halo 3 MP. Halo 4's problems were derived from shit maps, shit "random" weapon drops and shit abilities and perks. Promethean vision, active camo, regeneration and that fucking jet pack were what broke the game. The core movement and gameplay -- sprint included -- was great. Nothing they have in Halo 5 seems anywhere near as bad.
 

Natiko

Banned
I really don't mind the inclusion of sprint, thrusters, or the quasi-ADS. I just think the additional abilities (ground pound and shoulder charge) are unnecessary. I'm also concerned that the SMG is too strong but I'll reserve judgment until actually playing.
 

Magwik

Banned
I must be of the extreme minority opinion that sprint was not the issue with Halo Reach or Halo 4. In fact, I prefer it to the god awful snail's pace that is Halo 3 MP. Halo 4's problems were derived from shit maps, shit "random" weapon drops and shit abilities and perks. Promethean vision, active camo, regeneration and that fucking jet pack were what broke the game. The core movement and gameplay -- sprint included -- was great. Nothing they have in Halo 5 seems anywhere near as bad.

The shit map design came largely from catering to sprint though
 
remember the last time when they told us that everything will be fine and that we are all wrong about our complaints? yeah..
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Wow. The negativity was so quick. Am I the only one reading this with nods of agreement?

343 lost a ton of goodwill with their Halo release this year.
 
Seriously, guys?

PEOPLE CAN RUN.

HULKING SUPER SOLDIERS IN HYPER-ADVANCED POWER ARMOR CAN RUN TOO.

I can not BELIEVE so many people are railing at the fact that there's a sprint button in a halo game..
 

hawk2025

Member
I'm not sure I understand the explanation.

It feels like something along the lines of "we want to expand the lore in this direction". But that's not gameplay design.
 

Orayn

Member
remember the last time when they told us that everything will be fine and that we are all wrong about our complaints? yeah..

This time they've reverted most of those bad decisions, and the new changes seem a lot better. There is some reason to be optimistic.
 

Uiki

Member
Never read so much bullshit while talking about gameplay decisions in a competitive shooter.

If you want to have "immersion", you are developing the wrong genre.
 

KevinG

Member
343 lost a ton of goodwill with their Halo release this year.

I mean, I'm still upset about MCC, and I fully think it should have been delayed and polished with as much care as I assume they're giving H5G, but I have to consider the reality that MCC was thrown together by several developers with only a small team at 343i tying the package up with a UI.

I'm excite for H5G. Way more than I was for H4. Maybe I'm just too casual to see these changes as anything other than a progression of the series.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm not sure I understand the explanation.

It feels like something along the lines of "we want to expand the lore in this direction". But that's not gameplay design.
There's a ton of talk about gameplay design in the OP. No idea why the OP said "copy call of duty" since they're not doing that at all. How something feels, thinking about how new features would impact moment to moment gameplay, balancing those new features etc is all about gameplay design. They also talk about it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k96NK5moXyg
 

VinFTW

Member
I'm already disappointed that some people are already bringing up call of duty. It's as If no one actually understands the point of this post in the depths of one of the most passionate and hardcore halo fan sites left and I doubt people will. This post is taken out of context and the OP doesn't even try to portray that to the people now reading it.

Take the time to read and understand what he's saying before we "copy call of duty if old".

Ugh.

These guys are fucking clueless, Halo is so dead.

Pretty fucking harsh post without any explanation. Nice!

Please explain to use how you would do things differently if you were in charge of a multi million dollar, established franchise from times past in an ever changing and evolving (fastly) fps market. Go ahead.
 
it just reads like "we think that most people who buy this and play it for a week before moving on expect these things in shooters so we need to have it, sorry fans".
 
Wow. The negativity was so quick. Am I the only one reading this with nods of agreement?
No. I'm with you too, and I appreciate the write up by 343. I think some just prefer to pout in a corner, and let them be.
I'm already disappointed that some people are already bringing up call of duty. It's as If no one actually understands the point of this post in the depths of one of the most passionate and hardcore halo fan sites left and I doubt people will. This post is taken out of context and the OP doesn't even try to portray that to the people now reading it.

Take the time to read and understand what he's saying before we "copy call of duty if old".

Ugh.
Saying "copying Call of Duty" is easy for the ones who can't put together an actual argument.
 
good read with some insight into their philosophy, even if some people will dismiss it outright.

all that matters is the map design. if they nail that then good on them.
 
I don't think so. Reach's maps were great -- Invasion shit aside -- and that had sprint.

God no, Halo: Reach maps were the lowest point in the series that they made Halo 4's god-tier in comparison.

As for Halo 5: Guardians, I'm going to hold off until the beta first before getting mad. If anything Halo 2: Anniversary's multiplayer should've been what they were striving for, modern looking/feeling but retaining all the great gameplay.
 

Crisium

Member
They need to go back to H2 and H3 basics. Look at CS:GO. Back to basics, no new movement options like sprint, no ADS. It simply sticks with the formula established in the early 2000s when the game was most popular. Halo needs to stick with what made it a phenonemom in the mid 2000s when Halo 2 and Halo 3 were played by millions.

Not a Valve worship post, I swear. But CS:GO does it right.
 
Seriously, guys?

PEOPLE CAN RUN.

HULKING SUPER SOLDIERS IN HYPER-ADVANCED POWER ARMOR CAN RUN TOO.

I can not BELIEVE so many people are railing at the fact that there's a sprint button in a halo game..

super stretched maps are not good for Halo, which has longer kill times, and it was worse when sprint was always being used to run away.

if they buff kill times, make running away less desirable and make the maps smaller, it will work. the concept of "sprinting" isn't necessarily the problem.
 
eh.

I'm going to say that you do not need sprint if base speed is good enough, look at quake for example you move swift and with control with minimal effort.

I always presumed back in halo ce that Spartans were always moving at their maximum, your movement was always much faster then regular marines.
 

VinFTW

Member
No. I'm with you too, and I appreciate the write up by 343. I think some just prefer to pour in a corner, and let them be.

Saying "copying Call of Duty" is easy for the ones who can't put together an actual argument.

Yup. Even some of the most negative and anti-halo people on the site I mentioned (in my earlier posts) respected the time josh spent to respond and write this for us so much that they are willing to give it a chance and respect the decisions.
 
Interesting read; I'll wait for the beta before I judge it.
This concept confuses me...
Yup. Even some of the most negative and anti-halo people on the site I mentioned (in my earlier posts) respected the time josh spent to respond and write this for us so much that they are willing to give it a chance and respect the decisions.
Good. I'm glad it's getting some respect somewhere at least.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I'm not really digging his 'immersion' idea, because I personally feel that multiplayer is inherently un-immersive. After all, the use of 'immersion' as it pertains to mechanics has generally been applied to games that are built around simulating real world stuff in their single-player--that is, they 'immerse' players in a virtual world by striving to make it as believable as possible. You can't capture that in a game with real people.

Still not wild about sprints or supers. Would much rather have seen then return to form and actually not suck at it before attempting something else. There's that old idea that you have to know the rules backwards and forwards before you break them, and 343's failed thrice to prove they can do great.

Seriously, guys?

PEOPLE CAN RUN.

HULKING SUPER SOLDIERS IN HYPER-ADVANCED POWER ARMOR CAN RUN TOO.

I can not BELIEVE so many people are railing at the fact that there's a sprint button in a halo game..

Because it's not about what people can do in real life and/or game lore, it's about what makes for good gameplay, and sprinting reduces the chance for the duels that make Halo what Halo is. We've seen two games where this is the case.
 

Uiki

Member
They need to go back to H2 and H3 basics. Look at CS:GO. Back to basics, no new movement options like sprint, no ADS. It simply sticks with the formula established in the early 2000s when the game was most popular. Halo needs to stick with what made it a phenonemom in the mid 2000s when Halo 2 and Halo 3 were played by millions.

Not a Valve worship post, I swear. But CS:GO does it right.

Hold for a second and think about an halo game with cs:go structure and h2/h3 gameplay.

15/20$ or even free with gold, crow founded tournaments, skins for guns, drops, keys, meaningful and explained design choices about gameplay FIRST.... all that.

That would be the killer application MS is looking for.

Instead of that... we got "yeah, we added the sprint because spartans are supposed to run" -_-
 

Killer

Banned
They need to go back to H2 and H3 basics. Look at CS:GO. Back to basics, no new movement options like sprint, no ADS. It simply sticks with the formula established in the early 2000s when the game was most popular. Halo needs to stick with what made it a phenonemom in the mid 2000s when Halo 2 and Halo 3 were played by millions.

Not a Valve worship post, I swear. But CS:GO does it right.

They need to read this post.
 

btrboyev

Member
343 did not invent sprint in Halo. Bungie did. There was nothing wrong with sprint in Halo 4 and playing the old Halo games in MCC, it's hard to go back to the slowness of them. Especially after Destiny.
 
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