Metalmurphy
Member
Not sure about that one. It's fairly new to me, but I believe it's the slowest of the bunch. Don't quote me on that though.
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15th Anniversary of Gran Turismo Europe: Invite to GT6, [Make A New Thread]
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Not sure about that one. It's fairly new to me, but I believe it's the slowest of the bunch. Don't quote me on that though.
thesuperfunk
Member
But they were never licenced in the first place?
MLAA or any post-process do not add input delay.
BTW GT 5 has already one post-AA technique used - TAA, it can be turned on in options.
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IQ would suffer though.
MSAA has been around since 1984. More details are over at
- http://books.google.ca/books?id=V1k1V9Ra1FoC&pg=PA129#v=onepage&q&f=false
- http://hinjang.com/articles/01.html
He was talking about SMAA - Enhanced Subpixel Morphological Antialiasing developed by Jorge Jimenez
http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/
Its based on MLAA GPU implementation with added post-AA stuff and combined with MSAA resolve and temporal supersampling. It has many different performance modes.
Metalmurphy
Member
Right, they add perceptive delay, and all intents and purposes is the same thing to the user.
No, they dont. You are mistaking post-process used in TVs to post-process implemented in engine.
Metalmurphy
Member
An image that takes longer to render and display is an image that has a bigger delay in showing a response to input...
Why do you think AA was removed to reduce input lag on PS3 BF3?
phosphor112
Banned
I like this. 2 more days!
For the same reason why BF 3 has lod on consoles based on Low settings PC, because they couldnt keep up frame update below 33ms.
As long as You keep Your rendering time below required time You can throw whatever You want into rendering engine. In GT 5 case, we are talking about only about visual feedback, because input feedback is much faster than 60hz.
If You throw away 4x MSAA You will get GPU time to use postAA [or CELL in case of PS3], decrease memory usage per frame and still will get some gpu time left for rendering something additional, thats why most current console games moved to postAA, because its cheaper, so they can spend that gpu time on something different.
Metalmurphy
Member
Got that documented somewhere? All I heard/read is that there's a bigger render time using MLAA than 4x MSAA on PS3.
Lagspike_exe
Member
God of War 3 switched from MSAA to MLAA during development (E3 demo was with MSAA) and huge number of recent games whose prequels used MSAA switched to MLAA or similar kinds of AA. The main reason is that you offload work from RSX to Cell, leading to, in most cases, to a more balanced performance utilization. You can probably look for DF's articles on GoW3, MLAA was thoroughly explained IIRC.
Metalmurphy
Member
I don't see how that touches on render time or input lag. My personal experience for example (but on PC only ofc) is that either FXAA or MLAA causes noticeable mouse lag when MSAA doesn't.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Input lag happens (in most cases) when a frame takes more than 33.3ms to render (with a 30 FPS target). If you go for MLAA and still hit that timeframe, there won't be any input lag. It doesn't matter what AA method you use. The only developer I heard complaining about using SPUs for rendering purposes (such as MLAA) was Criterion.
I like this too.
The AA discussion though - feels like I've entered a PC tech demo thread on beyond3d. It's like the ultimate killer of all hype.
Expected. Disappointing.
Why is that?
velociraptor
Junior Member
PRAISE THE LORD!
What on earth? Why would you want PS2 cars?
I dont get why would anyone be happy about less cars?
Red Chocobo
Banned
The thing about having no Standard cars is good and bad.
Good that all cars will be high quality with cockpit view.
But bad that the number of cars will drop drastically.
I have no problem using standards in GT5, as I either use hood or chase-cam for all cars. So going from 1000+ cars to about 300-ish will be a huge step backwards :/
Good that all cars will be high quality with cockpit view.
But bad that the number of cars will drop drastically.
I have no problem using standards in GT5, as I either use hood or chase-cam for all cars. So going from 1000+ cars to about 300-ish will be a huge step backwards :/
PetriP-TNT
Member
Very very excite here, GT5 was easily my driving GOTG
Because games aren't for playing, they're for comparing to other games and making you feel better about your purchases
BloodMoney
Banned
What if they've converted all of the standards to premium... that would certainly not be "disappointing"
Edit: Give me premium Gen 1 RX-7, Ruf BTR, and Merc 190e Evolution II.
RobotRocker
Member
Ask yourself "Do we need every single econobox k-car Toyota/Nissan/Daihatsu/Mazda et all graced the wangan-sen with in our racing games?"
No. No we don't.
I really doubt they converted all those cars.
Interfectum
Member
Quality > Quantity
Red Chocobo
Banned
As long as they converted ones that actually matter.
All the outdated road cars could be diched and nobody would miss them. But we need the classic and iconic cars to stay.
Yes, because those are the cars that people will lament the loss of... You make it sound like there aren't any cars worth driving in the standard garage.
Edit: There's that word again, 'consistency' I don't understand the fascination with it, especially as regards the actual important part of the game, they all drive consistently great, 30 polys or 3,000,000.
I love some of the outdated road cars.
I don't want just iconic cars, I want everyday cars as well. That is part of the fun for me. Racing cars I see out on the streets.BloodMoney
Banned
It's a long shot, but who knows... If the game has around 500 cars (all premium) that will be plenty.
I agree with the above posts that PD can edit out the econoboxes and 50 version of every Nissan vehicle produced in the 90's
Thats is what make GT great I think.I love some of the outdated road cars.
There is no *conversion* process from Standard to Premium, only painstaking modelling of every vehicle from a scratch.
Standard models are Standard models, PD does not use anything from them when building Premium vehicles.
*Conversion* is some crazy idea from someone over the GTP forums that became a trope while there is no real substance to it.
Nothing gets *converted*, everything has to be build from the very foundation. Every duplicate Standard/Premium model from GT5 are two different cars, made in different standards and with vast difference in various *possibilities* within game.
Standard models are Standard models, PD does not use anything from them when building Premium vehicles.
*Conversion* is some crazy idea from someone over the GTP forums that became a trope while there is no real substance to it.
Nothing gets *converted*, everything has to be build from the very foundation. Every duplicate Standard/Premium model from GT5 are two different cars, made in different standards and with vast difference in various *possibilities* within game.
Red Chocobo
Banned
I love some of the outdated road cars.
But they can be replaced by more modern road cars.
I don't want to spend 90% of GT6 racing in 90's and early 00's cars again. GT NEEDS more modern cars.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Because I don't want my game to be plagued with low quality half-assed assets.
Perfection > A shit load of quantity.
Furthermore, the car list is the same old car list we've had for the past decade. It's getting quite tiresome.
GT6 needs a hell of a lot more unique cars instead of variations of the same thing.
Thanks for explaining
I do not agree nor will ever agree.
Variety is what counts. I would always welcome older vehicles then new ones.
New cars are boring as hell and every damn game have them.
velociraptor
Junior Member
A mixture of unique cars is fantastic, irrespective of time period. But only as long as they up to standard.
gutterboy44
Member
I want way more older cars. Bring on the big slip angles!
Red Chocobo
Banned
To be fair. When I say "Converted" I don't actually mean that they turn the model into a premium. It's pretty obvious that they have to be completely re-built
The word conversion is used to point out that the car will go from Stardard to Premium (Not the same assets)
Diablo Rosso
Member
I want classic F1 cars from the 70s, 80s and 90s. All premium cars is a good thing too by the way. Consistency is the key.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'm curious, of all that don't want standards, how many of you have over 20 hours of GT5?
Ignoring the fact that the reason we have a hundred Skylines is that they are all unique variants, I can't believe anyone would complain about GT not having enough unique cars, the variety is absolutely astounding, I still find cars I don't remember ever seeing before in my garage.
Other car games focus on popular (boring) modern cars for 90% of their line up, GT doesn't and that's one of the things that makes it unique. I don't want GT to turn into another game about supercars...
I like those old stupid standard cars. A lot of times that's why I plug the wheel in and boot the game up. Fast iconic mega-cars are awesome, don't get me wrong, but I have a ton of fun in standards.
Also, to add to my hype I finally purchased the 2 track DLCs. I had never got around to it because honestly the regular game had a shit-ton of content.
Yeah, this is what I meant.
Also, to add to my hype I finally purchased the 2 track DLCs. I had never got around to it because honestly the regular game had a shit-ton of content.
Modern cars are fun but you cannot beat racing old as fuck cars that were not designed to be thrown around a corner
Yeah, this is what I meant.
Diablo Rosso
Member
I put 100s of hours into GT5 I still want all premium cars, too many repeated cars in the standards. Also some tracks need remaking, like Trial Mountain and Laguna Seca.
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