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343: Halo 4 is best/fastest selling game in series, will do better on quality 4 Halo5

GhaleonEB

Member
A new studio taking on Halo is a massive undertaking. So it was always going to be a heavy lift. I know some of the folks at 343 and they're great people and worked their hearts out on the game, and I'm genuinely happy for their success.

But I really didn't like Halo 4, and cannot fathom any way that it's the best game in the series, the graphics engine aside. It's the game that killed my interest in the series and the entire Halo universe going forward. For me it's hands down the worst, or at least the least enjoyable, game in the series. From the feature set to the gameplay, it unplugged most of what I loved about Halo.

I have no problem with self-congratulation, they're been successful. It's just come at the expense of what I enjoyed about the series.
 
Halo 4:

Good
maps (compared to Reach)
graphics+sound
engine feels great
customization: armor/loadouts
challenges are fun
campaign story

Bad
no map variety, artistically and mechanically
Prometheans are not fun to fight
lack of custom game options
lack of campaign theater
spartan ops is a mess
LE content was fucking terrible
UI makes me sad
 
A new studio taking on Halo is a massive undertaking. So it was always going to be a heavy lift. I know some of the folks at 343 and they're great people and worked their hearts out on the game, and I'm genuinely happy for their success.

Didn't the original Halo have less than 50 people working on it? It's about putting your energy in the right places. It's a massive undertaking not because they needed to make a worthy sequel but because Microsoft probably forced them to do certain things; either that or they didn't know how to "modernize" halo without having an identity crysis and implementing COD features to the high heavens (in the incorrect way).
 
They chased CoD but didnt know what made CoD great added the wrong elements and destroyed what made Halo Halo. Loadouts Instant Respawn Perks Grinds that arent aesthetic. These things arent and dont belong in Halo.

The playlist management of the MP is bad and they outsourced player retention to Virgin Gaming, the current contest is destroying proper playlist implementation.

A ton of Forge and map creation was outsourced to different companies. The company wasnt new exactly they were hired from tons of other companies within the gaming industry its a collab effort of all the brightest minds in the industry and the game is still crap.

It shamelessly promotes at nearly every angle I'm surprised they dont have in-game ad's. Mt Dew and Dorito mountains got the game a 9.8 at IGN and have people going into gas stations taking pictures of Dorito bags to level up quicker.

Its disgusting.

MP is terrible too.

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Population continues to decline, and the more it does the more it effects Trueskill in game. That calculates good MM games that are balanced skill wise. There is no rank system so you basically cannot get an even match.

Even the Christmas kids cant save it. There was a small bump for awhile but its still not hitting 100k now for the last few days...BlopsII hits 500k daily for comparison.

They ignored the competitive community even though the casuals only stick around if the games good.

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See above. Casuals leave after they beat the campaign and get some achievements. The hardcore fans stick around and are angry and eventually leave slower because they are chasing the ghost of a good game. You make the game good and competitive and those casuals stick around to try and beat us the good players.

All we want is Halo CE/H2/H3 type game, updated. Kind of like a Madden would do. We dont want the rules changed, we just want HALO.

But as long as everyone keeps buying the game, and IGN keeps up the 9.8s with Extreme Doritos I dont see anything changing. Congrats fans you've killed Halo.

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The End.
 

sp3000

Member
By far the worst Halo game ever made. By every measure. It's still a good game, but it is not a good Halo game.

It literally doesn't do a single thing better than any of it's predecessors except graphics, and on every other measure it does worse. Let's not even mention the incomprehensible plot and Instant Respawn COD lite stuff that has no place in Halo.

MP is a complete mess that has no semblance of map control, battle flow, or teamplay because of ordnance and loadouts. The entire game is just one baffling design decision after another.

But I really didn't like Halo 4, and cannot fathom any way that it's the best game in the series, the graphics engine aside. It's the game that killed my interest in the series and the entire Halo universe going forward. For me it's hands down the worst, or at least the least enjoyable, game in the series. From the feature set to the gameplay, it unplugged most of what I loved about Halo.

I don't know if it was a misstep by 343 or if they actually intend to do the same things with Halo 5.

I'm pretty sure Halo 5 will also have instant respawn, loadouts, and perks though. 343 doesn't seem to "get" that these things are fundamentally not Halo.
 

Tawpgun

Member
By far the worst Halo game ever made. By every measure.

It literally doesn't do a single thing better than any of it's predecessors except graphics, and on every other measure it does worse. Let's not even mention the incomprehensible plot and Instant Respawn COD lite stuff that has no place in Halo.

MP is a complete mess that has no semblance of map control, battle flow, or teamplay because of ordnance and loadouts. The entire game is just one baffling design decision after another.

Gunplay in Halo 4 is the best its been since Halo 2.

Shame its weighed down by terrible design decisions regarding everything else.
 
What do you want changed in multiplayer?

I read:

1. Remove loadouts (and ordinance drops).
2. Add forge maps.
3. Import Halo 1/2 maps.

What else?

You read wrong lol. Forge maps are generally terrible.

I have a huge file I'm working on detailing my changes.

A ton of good stuff.

A lot needs changed.
 

sp3000

Member
I'm surprised to see so many people calling 4's soundtrack the worst in the series. It certainly wasn't implemented well, but I thought songs themselves were better than a majority of what was featured in Reach and 3.

Oh yeah the OST also sucked. There are literally two good tracks in the entire OST, and the rest is generic, wannabe hollywood type affair. Not even in the same league as Marty. There is nothing resembling a good melody is most of the tracks which is what Halo's OST did
very well.

There are other good composers who I think would be able to do Halo very well (Jesper Kyd), but Neil is not one of them.

Really hope they get a new composer for Halo 5.
 
What do you want changed in multiplayer?

I read:

1. Remove loadouts (and ordinance drops).
2. Add forge maps.
3. Import Halo 1/2 maps.

What else?

I think loadouts are fine but certain weapons could use re-balancing. Something like different levels of powerups for a plasma pistol (I.E to take out a vehicle it may drain the whole gun and takes much larger to charge vs just taking out a spartans shields).

Forge is almost something I'd like to see gone at this point. I'd much rather see the game launch with 3 or 4 extra maps and have more maps in DLC packs than all the energy that is put into forge.

Weapon spawns have to be permanent and orbital drops have to go away.

Weapon additions were really good.
 
What's disgusting and pathetic is how big of an attention whore you are with everything Halo 4, including hijacking the game's thread.

I'm just trying to fix the game. Man. Did you see the chart? The numbers are going DOWN and IGN #'s go up. I'm sorry facts are real things. Its not like I made shit up lol. I rarely post in threads out of Halogaf OT...I have like two posts in the Halo4OT and three in here including this one...
 

Overdoziz

Banned
I'm having fun with the game, so I'm curious to know.
Written in a snarky way but still:
Things that are Dumb As Fuck™ in Halo 4 Multiplayer Infinity:

  • Personal ordnance - People pull Snipers, Binary Rifles and all kinds of other extremely powerful weapons out of their asses after which they proceed to kill enemy players who could've never seen it coming.
  • Global ordnance - Random weapons in random locations, go figure.
  • Flinch - Can we please get the descoping mechanic back? The flinching mechanic is annoying enough in CoD where everyone dies in one hit, it's incredibly obnoxious in Halo where it takes 5 shots to do so. Long range battles become very tedious because of it.
  • Big Team Battle - Because of the flinch mechanic BTB isn't everything but enjoyable. The fact that it turns into who can shoot each other the fastest while sitting behind a rock half a kilometer away doesn't help much either. Valhalla is especially atrocious, it's nothing but long range battles. And good luck using vehicles because they'll get EMPed, stuck and shot to shreds with precision weapons in no time.
  • Promethean Vision - You can see people across the goddamn map. Don't think that needs more explanation, right 343?
  • Camo - It's already annoying anyway as an AA, but hey now you can even be invisible on the radar if you stand still. Screw the camo power-up that promotes movement and isn't Dumb As Fuck™, no let's let everyone spawn with camo and encourage them to hide in corners.
  • Jetpack - Screw your map-layout, screw you cover, screw everyone, I've got a motherfucking jetpack.
  • Regeneration Field - It's practically impossible to win a battle against someone who is in one and right to some cover. You miss one shot and he gets his shield partly back instantly. Fun, fun, fun.
  • Thrust - No, I'm just kidding. It's pretty worthless and I don't mind it.
  • Hardlight Shield - "Just throw a grenade," people said. Well, what if the guy who's using it is across the goddamn map? What if I'm out of grenades? Gotta give people their out-of-jail-free card, right?
  • Boltshot - It's a shotgun that you get at spawn. I like using it but damn if it isn't lame.
  • Capture the Flag - A 35 seconds reset time with no ability to return it yourself. Hey 343, please stop asking Bungie for advice on how to set up gametypes. These settings could work in BTB, but they have no place on small maps. It's impossible to reset the flag 9 out of 10 times. Change it to 15 seconds reset time and 5 second return time. While you're at it turn off the auto pick-up and let us juggle the flag, thanks in advance.
  • Matchmaking times - There's a 100.000 people playing BTB, why is it taking >5 minutes for us to find amatch?
  • Servers - Stop using the EA servers, we can't go into matchmaking half the time.
  • UI - It's a mess. Active Roster and the lobby menu have taken a huge step back. Who gives a fuck about player cards? Just show a list of horizantal names of players in the lobby and use the rest of the space you freed up to give players information about the gametype or something, don't fill it with huge buttons. Also make it so Active Roster is not a button press away, I want to see who's online and what they're doing all the time.
  • Framerate - Why am I getting framedrops while looking at a wall of a cave?
  • Killcams sitrecs - It's a feature that doesn't even work properly and was probably put into the game about a week before launch. I'm used to CoD killcams not being entirely accurate but the ones in Halo 4 simply don't work half the time. If you end up fixing them, make sure to add a final killcam to every gametype.
  • Filesharing - Why can't you do it on Waypoint yet? We seriously have to wait a month after launch for basic features to be available?
  • Theater - It's not there for campaign and spec ops which is sad, and it doesn't even work properly when you record clips.
  • Medals - They all look the same and disappear within half a second. You barely see them, let alone differentiate them from each other.
  • Steitzer - He's saying so much stuff that I've learned to tune out his voice. Now I can't really keep track of half the things that happens during objective games. He should only say stuff when it's important, not when I get a headshot.
  • Complex - Jetpack abuse to hell and back. All people do is go in or on top of one of the many buildings and take pot-shots at the enemy.
  • Longbow - The most one-dimensional map in the game. You take the middle structure and you shoot the enemy team spawning one either side of said base.
  • Meltdown - Has the longest tunnels known to man-kind.
  • Adrift - Hallways, crates, and more hallways.
  • Vortex - Half the map is meant for Dominion is isn't used outside of that gametype.
  • Weapons despawning - A 12 second despawn time? Really? Hey Kevin, if you don't want too many power weapons on the map don't reward to everyone who even does as much as fart in the general direction of the enemy.
  • Forge - No precision forging, objects are worse than in Reach, category object limit still exists, the Forge maps aren't good to Forge on, lighting makes all enclosed maps look bland as fuck, all that kind of stuff.
  • Instant respawns - I've had several occasions where I could finish off my own kills after dying and respawning immediately. RIP Halo
  • Loadouts - Rock, Paper, Scissors all day, every day. Along with ordnance it makes the game unpredictable in a bad way.
  • Sprint - Just give me a faster movement speed so I can shoot while moving around faster and so I don't slow down with I'm shot.
  • Oddball - Throwing the Oddball into the hands of an enemy player who's just coming around the corner is fun the first time, sure. But it's annoying more than anything when it happens to you. There should not be an auto pick-up for the ball.
  • Dominion - It's over within a minute half the time.
  • Audio - I can't hear my surroundings as well as I could in Reach. Not sure what it is, but something's messed up.
  • Options - Why can't I turn off Assassinations? Why can't I change my audio settings? Why can't I adjust my vertical sensitivity? It's 2012, people!
  • Hitdetection - Not sure on this one, but I feel like headshots aren't registering correctly half the time. I've seen myself hit people in the head several times only for them to just shrugs it off and run around the corner. Was a lot more consistent in (0% bloom) Reach.
  • Join-in-Progress - I don't want to join a game when it's nearly finished and the other team is ahead by a million points. Why can't I turn this shit off?
  • Post-game lobby - It lasts so short that by the time that you're done seeing how many credits you got you're already in the voting screen for the next game unable to back out. What happened to the 30-second post-game screen that existed in previous Halos?
  • Flood - The gametype has less flexibility than the old Infection gametype just so you guys could add a Flood skin that looks like it's ripped straight out of doom for the infected players? It's sad to see where your priorities lie, 343.
  • Lack of classic settings - Following up on what I said about the Flood gametype; Why are the customization options for some gametypes so limited?? 343 has actively ripped out customization options for CTF, Infection and Grifball and we can't even play Assault at all anymore.
  • King of the Hill - I don't have too much issues with it but the inconsistent respawn timer can be annoying at times. Sometimes it's instant , others it's 3 seconds. Also, don't put KotH on a map as segmented as Adrift.
  • Regicide - Rewards players who aren't in the lead and promotes not doing well until right towards the end. Another problem is that the King can get a kingtacular - resulting in an overshield - in the middle of a fight. That's just fucked up.
  • Killtimes - The game can be very slow in when you're in 1v1 situations. I honestly wouldn't mind 4-shot weapons.
  • Spec Ops - Wasted resources.
  • Death waypoints - What happened to the red Xs that appeared when people died? Those were extremely useful to get a good idea of where your teammates died and where the enemy is.
  • Shield recharge rate - Seems to be around as slow as it is in Reach. I don't want to spend 6 seconds behind cover waiting for my shields to recharge.
  • Solace - Why is this symmetrical map so incredibly asymmetrical? On one side you can do several jumps up to the sniper ledge while on the other there's not a single one.

Things that are good in Halo 4 Infinity:

  • Core gameplay - It's better than vanilla Reach.

This game is becoming increasingly frustrating every day I play it. I have the feeling like the game screws me over regularly which is something that has stopped me from playing CoD completely. I have never been so agitated by a Halo game this early after launch and I really don't see Title Updates fixing the problems that I have with the game.

And this:
The biggest issue I have with Halo 4 is that it's not as predictable as previous Halo games, including Reach to a lesser extent. Halo’s multiplayer to me has always been about its simplicity. There are two teams who all being on an even playing field who are placed on a map and whoever plays the best during a match will win. The end result is only influenced by what the players do during a game, nothing else.

Halo Reach changed this slightly. You could influence the match by choosing what you spawn with. At first Bungie acted like this was going to be a big deal in Reach but in the end only Invasion really used to a great extent. Outside of that playlist most loadouts only differed in what AA you would spawn with. Even this, though, caused some annoyances on my part. You couldn’t predict what type of AA chose at spawn which lead to frustrating moments like people suddenly going into Armor Lock, going invisible out of nowhere or getting up to places with the Jetpack which you couldn’t practically predict. Luckily these annoyances were relatively rare as most people chose for sprint most of the time so in most cases you knew what you were up against. Then as time went on more and more AAs were removed from certain playlists making them less and less of an issue. Sure, the AAs themselves were still very obnoxious at times, but that’s another issue entirely. In terms of predictability Reach wasn’t all that bad (lol bloom).

Halo 4, however, takes all of this a step further: it allows you to completely determine what kinds of weapons, AAs and even perks you spawn with. You could be going up against someone with an automatic rifled, precision rifle, a mini-shotgun, a plasma pistol, a headshot capable secondary, most of the time you don’t find out until you’re already in a battle with him. Then take into account the AAs and perks and it turns the game into an inconsistent mess. Just like in Reach people can go invisible, they can dash away, they can be (sort of) invincible, all at the press of a button, without warning. But even there was a clear visual indication of what kind of AA or perk someone has it wouldn’t be enough. By the time you find this out you could be screwed over by it already.

Then there’s the global ordnance drops. 343 said previously that it’s implemented to prevent people from camping at certain areas on the map waiting for a power weapon to spawn, but I doubt this is their real reasoning. It most likely has more to do with bad and inexperienced players not knowing where and when everything spawns and them getting killed numerous times by players who did put effort into getting to know all this. To prevent this they shrank the gap between the two groups and made it so it’s practically impossible to consistently predict where weapons spawn. I feel like global ordnance ruins the flow of matches. Where in previous Halo games you could set up goals mid-match of getting a certain weapon, or prevent the other team from getting one, that’s gone now. People mostly just run around the map looking for people to kill and every now and then move towards a waypoint that appeared on the map somewhere. There’s much less direction to a match than previously and it makes everything feel a bit sloppy and uncontrolled.

Personal ordnance drops are probably a worse offender than the global system, though. It’s only in a few playlist but I still think it’s worth mentioning because I really don’t want 343 to take it a step further with it. Next thing you know the personal ordnance system has “evolved” its way into all playlist as a basic feature in Halo 5. The problem with the system, again, is that it’s not predictable. Both in terms of predicting when someone else will get it and what kind of weapon that person will get. Numerous times in (Big Team) Infinity Slayer I would get killed by a power weapon which I could not have seen coming in any sort of practical way. Someone could let a Sniper or Binary Rifle drop in and kill you before you even knew that kind of weapon was on the map. It results in many frustrating moments throughout every match. Overall I’ve been doing quite well in Halo 4 but even just dying a few times because of things that I couldn’t possible predict can ruin a match for. I can go 20 in 5 and feel annoyed because a guy pulled a Incineration Cannon out of his ass when I ran around the corner. How can I anticipate something like that?

Every one of these aspects cause the game to be unfairly unpredictable in my eyes and results in me feeling screwed over by the game mechanic and systems, rather than being outplayed by the player that killed me. It’s the same reason why I stopped playing Call of Duty. At a certain point during MW2 I got tired of getting taken down by predator missiles off spawn and sold it.

With Halo 4 I just don’t have the patience anymore. 343 is clearly taking the franchise into a direction that I heavily dislike and I don’t see any patches, title updates or matchmaking updates fixing the biggest issues I have with the game. Even if so it’ll probably only available in a single playlist which simply isn’t enough for me. I want a game that isn’t completely designed around things that I don’t like.

And let’s not forget all the issues that the game has aside from this big issue with predictability.
  • Flinch is an annoyance more than anything, especially considering that you have to zoom in more often because of the size of the maps. Sure, descoping was annoying at times but I liked the dynamic of the mechanic, especially during battles at medium range. I also don’t see how flinching gives people a better chance to fight back if you get pinged in BTB. You still get ripped to shreds before you have a proper chance to fight back.
  • Active Camo. It simply doesn’t work in any way as an Armor Ability. 343 had the perfect opportunity to turn it into a power-up again via the personal ordnance system but didn’t for some reason.
  • Jetpack. Aside from it breaking the layout of most maps, it simply isn’t fun fighting against them. The movement of jetpackers simply isn’t predictable enough in my opinion. When you run around a corner you have your reticle at head level because that’s where most people will be. With the jetpack that positions people can be at increases exponentially making it very frustrating to fight against.
  • Promethean Vision. Sure, it doesn’t have such an immediate effect as some of the other AAs, but it can make the game slow down to a crawl, more so than the radar ever did. It also shrinks the awareness skillgap since people can see where people are, what direction they’re facing and heading, and even what kind of weapon they’re wielding.
  • The Boltshot. It’s a shotgun that you can spawn with. I used it all the time and I’ll admit that I enjoyed doing so, but it’s pretty broken.
  • The campaign. I’m not going to do a big write-up about this but I’ll just say that is was pretty underwhelming. The storytelling was particularly poorly done, gameplay was dull and the levels felt restricted compared to Halo 3. Why, after two games, we still haven’t gone back to the scale of that game I will never understand.
  • Forge. In several ways a step back from Reach’s variant. Overall, the objects are less useful than in Reach, precision placement is gone, and Impact, Ravine and Erosion are less flexible than Forge World ever was. Even the better lighting introduces several issues like it making enclosed maps look bland and it sometimes glitching out when the amount of objects on a map gets too high.
  • Spartan Ops. I hoped this mode would give us challenging, more specific types of co-op missions it gave us something entirely different. A mode where you mindlessly kill hordes of Covenant and Prometheans (both of which aren’t that fun to fight), with an infinite amount of lives, reused and seemingly random environments, a lackluster story (during the missions), no customization and no theater is what we got instead.

I could go on and on about the numerous big issues that Halo 4 has (Which I did) but I’ll keep it to this for now.

So yeah, I kept playing Reach for a long time (Mainly because zero bloom, Forge map testing, and Team Objective pooping) and you won’t find me saying that it’s a better game than Halo 4, but at its core Halo Reach is more Halo to me than Halo 4 is. Reach was annoying enough at times, but Halo 4 takes this a step further and I simply can’t enjoy it anymore. I’ll admit: Reach was mostly fun because trueskill didn’t work properly as a result of the low population number of the playlists that I played in. I’ve played a shitload of Team Objective and Squad Slayer simply because whenever we went into those playlist as a team, 90% of the time we would go incredibly positive and absolutely destroy the other team. MLG (0% bloom, no sprint) was the only competitively viable playlist in Reach and it was the only playlist that was fun to play in against good players, but sadly not many people on my friendslist played it regularly so I stuck to beating up bad players.

Trueskill in Halo 4 does seems to work better, (I definitely got better opposition towards the end) but ironically enough this actually made the game less fun for me. Both Reach (MLG aside) and Halo 4 are not competitively sound in my eyes so actually playing it against good players isn’t fun at all. This is because I feel like I get killed often not because the other player is that great, but because some aspects of the game are flawed. Bloom in Reach is a good example of this. Sometimes I would get killed because my opponents just spammed his DMR and got a lucky headshot, just like I’ve done to my enemies numerous times. It feels unfair.

I’m tired of hoping for that matchmaking update, that TU, that next game that will make most of what I want in Halo a reality. Halo has lost most of the aspects that appealed to me the most and what made the franchise stand out for me so I bid it farewell, for the time being at least.
 
I'm just trying to fix the game. Man. Did you see the chart? The numbers are going DOWN and IGN #'s go up. I'm sorry facts are real things. Its not like I made shit up lol. I rarely post in threads out of Halogaf OT...I have like two posts in the Halo4OT and three in here including this one...
Is it supposed to be obvious that the numbers in that chart dropped because of AAs and loadouts?
 
I like Halo 4, and will play the hell out of the online, but, it feels like it's missing the Halo Charm. The SP was just ok, I didn't give a flying fuck about the plot because it was terrible. The OST sucked.
 
Is it supposed to be obvious that the numbers in that chart dropped because of AAs and loadouts?

No, that chart just shows the number of peak players on each day, the other one with circles describing casuals shows the hourly population so you can see its not even as high as the peak usually!

Its lower than other Halo games though.

So infer what you will from that.

Again, HaloGAF hates every Halo game after Halo 2. So what do they want to change?
Change it back to Halo 2, and simply release new maps every few months, or so.

Yea the charm of Halo in the past was always that you didnt grind like CoD. You spawned with the same weapons and armor and abilities as everyone else and it was up to you to play your best to beat the other person. A real skilled game. Slowly they took all these elements away. They made each action take a ridiculous amount of time, you couldnt reload press YY and be ready to shoot again real fast you had to sit through the whole animation. Little things like that. Chipping and chipping away.

We want a more simpler game, thats refined, a game you can play the same game over and over and still learn a new trick. Midship FFA? Remember that? All day every day.

A Halo that just upgraded in graphics and new maps would be best, the core game "worked" as you can say. The flow was there to keep you consistently playing, it was fun.

Now you grind and grind to get perks, roll ordnance, randomly get good drops, get a nice railgun, get a few easy one shot kills with it. Its not Halo.

HaloGAF also has no agreement on what the best Halo was, list wars breakout weekly. However you do see a general pattern of either CE H2 or H3. Not many people say Reach/H4. They want the simpler stuff.
 

Dirtbag

Member
A new studio taking on Halo is a massive undertaking. So it was always going to be a heavy lift. I know some of the folks at 343 and they're great people and worked their hearts out on the game, and I'm genuinely happy for their success.

But I really didn't like Halo 4, and cannot fathom any way that it's the best game in the series, the graphics engine aside. It's the game that killed my interest in the series and the entire Halo universe going forward. For me it's hands down the worst, or at least the least enjoyable, game in the series. From the feature set to the gameplay, it unplugged most of what I loved about Halo.

I have no problem with self-congratulation, they're been successful. It's just come at the expense of what I enjoyed about the series.

+1
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Didn't the original Halo have less than 50 people working on it? It's about putting your energy in the right places. It's a massive undertaking not because they needed to make a worthy sequel but because Microsoft probably forced them to do certain things; either that or they didn't know how to "modernize" halo without having an identity crysis and implementing COD features to the high heavens (in the incorrect way).

Agree. It was a huge undertaking because of how much the series added features and content. The original Halo team was small, but by Reach they'd added Firefight, online multiplayer and co-op (Campaign and Firefight), theater, file sharing, significantly expanded game types and custom options, the player investment suite (challenges, commendations, armory, etc.), a huge expansion of bungie.net support, and so on. A 50 person team couldn't pull it off, especially given the added resources current gen games take over last gen (for art and such).

It's clear from the results where 343 put their resources:

  • A huge investment into the ranking/progression unlockathon. Two perk classes, custom load outs, tons of armor and skins to unlock, specializations, and so on.
  • CoD-chasing features non comparable with Halo, such as instant respawn and personal ordnance.
  • Huge investment in graphics engine.
  • Campaign and co-op theater (was Firefight, now Spartan Ops): Cut.
  • File sharing: gutted, currently mostly non-funtional.
  • Forge: Partly outsourced, and then most objects and features just ported from Reach, warts and all. Features cut.
  • Maps: Partly outsourced (including the entire first map pack).

And that's not including stuff they tried that, IMO, failed, such as Spartan Ops or the upended gameplay (global ordnance). They put their internal resources into making the game pretty and in chasing a market that is occupied by games other than Halo. Everything else was secondary.
 
Again, HaloGAF hates every Halo game after Halo 2. So what do they want to change?
Change it back to Halo 2, and simply release new maps every few months, or so.

Most of HaloGAF likes Halo 3 as well. Reach is where the divide began, and Halo 4 is where most of the remaining fans left.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Again, HaloGAF hates every Halo game after Halo 2. So what do they want to change?
Change it back to Halo 2, and simply release new maps every few months, or so.

While I'd be okay with that, that is not the prevailing opinion in the thread. There's no "hivemind" as you are implying. Several people love Halo 3 (myself included) and a few even prefer Reach or Halo 4. Everyone has different opinions. Even if we all wanted Halo 2, how the hell does that invalidate the argument against Halo 4? Look in this thread, there are objective flaws in this game, large ones. Change is just fine, but the way it was executed in Halo 4 is mediocre.

As for the topic at hand, Halo 4, in my opinion, is the worst in the series by a longshot. We lost entire modes and features for what exactly? The graphics are nice, but performance is weak. No 3D skyboxes and the draw distance is abysmal. Textures are worse than previous entries. Multiplayer is totally different, with "modernized" design and progression that apes other games. Custom games options are out the window. It's just not the game I grew up with.
 
I'm shocked people enjoyed Halo 2, I remember all the old Halo pros hated with a loathing passion Halo 2. IGN, gamefaqs, BGH now Planet Halo, everyone hated Halo 2. They claimed it removed all skill from Halo:CE and ruined what made Halo great.
 

Striker

Member
Weapon additions were really good.
Except the Boltshot, Binary Rifle, and Incineration Cannon.

Reach had much better additions to the gameplay and were beneficial in both campaign and MP. They weren't cheap and abusive like these new ones in Halo 4 are.
 

sp3000

Member
Again, HaloGAF hates every Halo game after Halo 2. So what do they want to change?
Change it back to Halo 2, and simply release new maps every few months, or so.

This is a blatant, uninformed oversimplification.

Most people loved Halo 3 and ODST. Even Reach with all its problems was still played often by the community.
 
343, please hire people who can make an engaging campaign next time.

Unlike others though, I had no major qualms with the multiplayer. Enjoyed it quite a bit more than Reach, actually.
 

Monocle

Member
Halo 4 excels in three areas: core gameplay (basic movement and gunplay look and sound right), graphics (dat Corrine Yu witchcraft), and storytelling (the narrative itself has issues, but Cortana and the Chief's constant interaction is perfect, the cutscenes are well directed and look great, and the voice acting is absolutely superb).

I just hope that in Halo 5 the new enemies are fun to fight. Prometheans embody some of the most annoying enemy traits and behaviors in the history of gaming. They lack clear vulnerabilities, they fly away and hide when you shoot them, they teleport out of view or right up in your face, they swarm you from all sides, and their designs are not only ugly but confusing because it's hard to locate their heads and you can barely tell one subclass from another. If 343 can't get this right, they should just bring back the Covenant in full force, minus the Drones.

343 should also return to Halo 3's cleaner aesthetic for the Spartans' helmet and armor designs, rethink multiplayer (for one thing, it would be nice to play a match without frequent 30-second pauses for player joining or host switching), make the campaign areas much more open, put a lot more emphasis on sandbox gameplay (multiple ways to approach encounters, lots of different tools available), don't despawn weapons I want to backtrack and pick up, and seriously overhaul the weapons and vehicles. We don't need more rifles, we need distinctive and specialized weapons like Reach's Grenade Launcher. We don't need a big stupid mech, we need a Forerunner chopper and new designs that work as well as the classic vehicles. I would settle for a big glowing boosty-ball with limited hovering, like a ground based version of the Didact's Cryptum.

Oh, and bring back campaign scoring, full theater support, and comprehensive custom game options (I should be able to toggle off flag auto-pickup. And if you're going to fill the HUD with distracting elements, I need to be able to disable them). Spartan Ops is a failed experiment, so Firefight needs to come back as well.
 
I'm having fun with the game, so I'm curious to know.

As long as you're enjoying it. Like Nullpointer said, if you stick around the community thread for a bit, you'll see what people don't like. Personally, these are the main things for me:

-The whole way in which loadouts/power weapons are handled. The loadouts are all long range weapons which changes up the classic close range firefights that previous Halos had. (edit: you can choose close range primaries but they pale in comparison, rendering the other weapons useless.) All weapons besides loadout weapons are power weapons including shotguns, needler, etc. Those weapons gave previous Halos tons of variety, but now they're all power weapons and create a huge gap in the playing field. Shotgun? Used to be perfect; still powerful as hell but you had to be point blank. Now? Over 10 feet away and you can get a 1 shot kill. Needler used to take some skill to wield, you had to make it so they were running directly into the needles to get killed. Now? Aim, shoot for 1 second, dead. And those are the least of the power weapon's worries. Incineration cannon, binary rifle, SAW (good but too much ammo/magazines are too big). No descoping, horrible flinch as a replacement for that. Boltshot in loadouts is abused. DMR is too powerful.

-I don't mind personal ordnance (except for the fact that power weapons are super unbalanced and there is an option for grenades which nobody ever uses and there's not an option for invisibility which is a perk instead), but global ordnance doesn't work right. I'm not the best to explain why, so if you want more info I would go into the community forums.

-Maps are overwhelmingly setup for big team which is inherently less balanced than regular gametypes, and a couple of the ones that aren't are too big for regular slayer.

-The playlists stray far away from previous Halos, and they've gotten rid of some of the only ones that hardcore fans will play.

-Armor abilities and perks(yes that is what i'm calling them cause that's what they are) are poorly implemented. I could see them working, but they did some really weird shit. They didn't get rid of things like jetpack and cloak, they added one that make so you can see the X of death that you should be able to see anytime (specialization), they added one that you can disable flinch which everyone wants disabled because it sucks (randomized aim obstruction) but then have to give up something else useful, they have a wallhack in the game, the grenades are not powerful enough if you don't choose explosive perks.

-There isn't proper ranking.

-There is no communication with 343 and what they're doing to alleviate concerns that have been talked about months before the game was even out and have now been fully realized by players.

This is just the beginning. Sorry if my grammar sucks, I just "jotted down" a bunch of stuff real quick.

I think the worst thing (or most frustrating) for me is that they were so damn close to a good game. If they had ranks (yes 343, ranks are important in Halo), less crazy power weapons, no global ordnance, and altered perks/AA's, and more classic sized maps (of course incorporating sprint speed) then it could be really really fun.
 

Satchel

Banned
It actually is the best Halo game.

No flood, no Iibrary, new enemies (who are a bit draining to be truthful), new weapons (which were great), and I find it to be the best mutliplayer in the series.

So for me, it's the best Halo. Coming from someone who still held CE and ODST as the best Halo games before that.

I just wish they'd release more small slayer focused maps. The big team focused maps and the overwhelming number of them really sucks.
 

Havok

Member
It'd be hard for me to name it as a winner in graphics either, considering the tradeoffs they had to make. Look at how gorgeous the vista is at the beginning of Reach's Winter Contingency, and compare it to the awful, low resolution bitmaps that serve as Halo 4's Reclaimer skyboxes. Look at how incredibly aggressive the LOD system is - on Shutdown when you're in a Banshee, you can fire shots at enemies that are in plain view, but as you get a little closer you see a wall draw in in front of them which blocks your shot. Stand at one end of Exile or Complex, and watch as the geometry at the other end of the level transitions into Play-Doh mode. Look at maps like Wreckage where the complete abuse of bloom lighting (seen throughout the game, and one of my biggest issues with H4's aesthetics) blinds players the second they look in a certain direction. It's shininess at the expense of combat clarity, something that Halo had always done very well before. For my money, I'd take a subtler but more consistent experience over one that has to make those kinds of obvious tradeoffs and ends up looking very uneven as a result.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Halo is my favorite franchise, and Halo 4 is the worst in the series. So many things were removed, made worse, or broken, with very few positive additions. I like the gunplay and the pretty graphics, and that's about it.
 
Halo 4 is fantastic.

Best visual design and graphics by a long shot.

Second best campaign, Halo 3 still has the best.
Multi isn't quite as good as 2 or 3 but the maps are mostly great, and its leagues better than halo reach
SpOps is cool, I play it more than I ever did with firefight

Really, the playlists need help, thats my biggest complaint. There's a bunch of missing gametypes :(
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Halo 4 is fantastic.

Best visual design and graphics by a long shot.

Second best campaign, Halo 3 still has the best.
Multi isn't quite as good as 2 or 3 but the maps are mostly great, and its leagues better than halo reach
SpOps is cool, I play it more than I ever did with firefight

Really, the playlists need help, thats my biggest complaint. There's a bunch of missing gametypes :(
All of this is subjective of course, but great maps, really? Haven is great, Abandon is okay, and everything else is bad. Like, baddddd. Though, some of the maps are bad mostly because of all the heavy vehicles, and not because of the map itself (like Exile and Ragnarok).
 
Halo 4 falls behind CE and 3 for me but I still love it. It's plenty flawed, but I also have a blast every time I play. At the end of the day that is the only thing I give a shit about.

I'm hyped and hopeful for Halo 5, as I'm still confident the game is in perfect hands.

(Now nerf the Boltshot and give me Griffball)
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Graphically I loved the game, just the feel of the engine and some of the style choices. It gave me pseudo-Metroid Prime 2 flashbacks in the best way. That said, I can't say there was as many standout, "wow" vista type moments compared to the previous games. The gunplay was just as enjoyable as ever, maybe moreso at least in SP. I've yet to play a single MP match and honestly don't have much desire to.

I will say toward the end the Prometheans were getting a wee Flood-like in their persistence and just bordering on no longer being fun to fight. This tragic bit of music starts and you sort of get the sense things are wrapping up and, nope, five more floating islands of 'em.

It pulled me in enough that I'm interested to see where 343 takes it next.
 

RooMHM

Member
Devs are getting more and more full of themselves, spitting on gamers face who wait eagerly for the dirty liquid with their mouth open. Not that Bungie guys were particularly humble but...

Well, shit sells so I guess it's the new trend. Shit attitude all the way YAY!
 
Devs are getting more and more full of themselves, spitting on gamers face who wait eagerly for the dirty liquid with their mouth open. Not that Bungie guys were particularly humble but...

Well, shit sells so I guess it's the new trend. Shit attitude all the way YAY!

Eloquently put.
 

LosDaddie

Banned
I love it when people try to invalidate all complaints by saying they just want Halo 2.

Most of HaloGAF likes Halo 3 as well. Reach is where the divide began, and Halo 4 is where most of the remaining fans left.

This is a blatant, uninformed oversimplification.

Most people loved Halo 3 and ODST. Even Reach with all its problems was still played often by the community.

While I'd be okay with that, that is not the prevailing opinion in the thread. There's no "hivemind" as you are implying. Several people love Halo 3 (myself included) and a few even prefer Reach or Halo 4. Everyone has different opinions. Even if we all wanted Halo 2, how the hell does that invalidate the argument against Halo 4? Look in this thread, there are objective flaws in this game, large ones. Change is just fine, but the way it was executed in Halo 4 is mediocre..

:lol You guys act like the Halo OT is some hiding spot that no one reads. I wasn't trying to invalidate anyone's opinion about Halo 4, just telling the guy what kind of responses to expect from the HaloGAF regulars.

OK, so there's some love for Halo 3 there. Sure. I've read that, too. There was also a ton of splooging over the mock up box art for Halo 2 XBLA, and whenever someone (I forget who) post H2V screens.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
:lol You guys act like the Halo OT is some hiding spot that no one reads. I wasn't trying to invalidate anyone's opinion about Halo 4, just telling the guy what kind of responses to expect from the HaloGAF regulars.

OK, so there's some love for Halo 3 there. Sure. I've read that, too. There was also a ton of splooging over the mock up box art for Halo 2 XBLA, and whenever someone (I forget who) post H2V screens.
Well, a lot of people like Halo 2 in HaloGAF, that's no secret. But most of those people don't just want another Halo 2, they want a new Halo that sticks to what made Halo 1, 2 and 3 such great games and expand on that. They don't want loadouts, unlocks, perks, bloom, all that jazz. Instead of just saying "lol they just want Halo 2 HD" and diminish valid complaints how about you add something to discussion by bringing in your own view on things.
 
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