NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
This whole situation and thread is WTF.
They better catch him soon.
They better catch him soon.
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47yo German allegedly in relationship w/ his 14yo niece, both on the run in Europe
- Thread starter chadskin
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It's been said a couple of times, but people are either ignoring it or they aren't reading the thread before they respond.
ClosingADoor
Member
I'm more amazed they get caught (but happy that they are). How difficult is it to book a plane ticket to South-America or Asia and disappear there. Or even just take off to Romania or Turkey. Of course if you head off to Italy, Spain, France or something, you're more likely to get caught. Certainly if you take your own car...
It is disgusting how quick some posters are willing to defend an adult getting in a relationship with a child at the slight hint that it may be legal and because she looks older than what she is which somehow makes it okay. It isn't legal. Even if it was, it wouldn't still be right because 14 year olds aren't mentally prepared to be in a relationship with an adult. As for the "she looks older than what she is" defense, it isn't uncommon for a 14 year old girl to look older than 14 because girls hit puberty earlier than boys and also wear make up which ages them. Looking older doesn't make them mature.
Omega Kirby
Member
This is why alien's wont speak to us.
LookAtMeGo
Member
What a terrible thing for this family to go through. I hope they catch this guy. The fact that he feels the need to have a gun makes me worry about what happens if they get caught. I really hope nobody gets hurt for this
. Especially the niece.
except maybe the uncle
machemachete
Banned
I hope they catch him soon.
By the way, 14 years old and already 1.78m?
Is that common in germany
By the way, 14 years old and already 1.78m?
Is that common in germany
The real issue is that those thoughts and opinions are so heavily influenced by other people as to not meaningfully be referred to as "personal choices."
As an extreme example, sometimes people who are tortured or held in captivity come to appreciate or even love their torturers/captors. Do we believe they "chose" to appreciate or love them? If your idea of "choice" is just "this is what this person believes they want," then they do choose that. I think our understanding of choice can be more nuanced than that, though.
ratcliffja
Member
I think owning a van like that has to put you on some sort of watch list anyway. Hope they find them and get the girl back without tragedy.
zyxwvu4321
Member
What a messed up situation.
Also messed up is the fact that I'm getting advertisements for wedding venues in this thread.
Also messed up is the fact that I'm getting advertisements for wedding venues in this thread.
Evil_Silver
Banned
To all the people who are giving the slightest hint of defending this disgusting relationship, go fuck yourselves!
Hopefully he gets caught.
Hopefully he gets caught.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Can you imagine the emotions the father/brother in law is going through right now. Holy cow.
Shuggananas
Banned
He may have known about the relationship, sounds like a fucked up situation already
edit :
Welcome to the 2010s
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
She's only 14? She looks 18
It is a case of:
- even if X wasn't fucked up, Y is
- even if Y wasn't fucked up, Z is
There are comments here, that defending incest or not, are missing the rest of the horrific cake. What sickens me is that there were comments that he should be excused of all the other bullshit BECAUSE incest should be less frowned upon. Like they are oppressed or something.
eso76
Member
Actually, this line of defense works in italy.
"I didn't know she was only 17 !"
And they left Germany going south..hmmm...
IISANDERII
Member
By that same exact coin, just because it may not be illegal, don't mean it's not completely immoral.
14 damnit. Less than 4yrs ago she was only 10. Think about that and now she's carrying on with a middle aged uncle who may have been grooming her, who was supposed to be trusted to protect her.
TheOohChild
Member
So basically his children have to live with the knowledge that their father left their family to be with one of their cousins. That's fucking brilliant.
But he made the choice to be sexually or romantically attracted to her?
ClosingADoor
Member
He can choose not to act on his impulses. This is a bullshit argument you are throwing up.
It would be still abduction. Parents never agreed to this.
I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be punished by the law. I'm just wondering what he thinks we can choose. Not trying to defend the guy at all.
Edit: Like he said, we can be influenced by outside forces so as to not amount to a "personal choice". I was genuinely curious as to how far this went. Not that he shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.
eso76
Member
I don't know, i'm always kind of baffled at just how much the American culture (especially) despises cheaters. Heck, I mean yeah it's bad, but some make it sound like cheating on your SO should get you in the death row. Man.
While we don't know the nature of their 'relationship' and they're not blood related this man at the very least abducted a 14 y/o and has a gun, which probably means he plans to use it in case their love runaway goes bad. That explains the urgency of the bulletin, more than anything, that's the horrific cake.
He made the choice to act on them.
I'm a hard determinist/materialist, so I'm not the one to ask here. While not everyone agrees with that position, I think most at least agree that "choice" has limits and clearly breaks down at the extremes. Most people agree that fetuses aren't meaningfully "choosing" their fingerprints, nor are people "choosing" to debase themselves if held up at gunpoint.
But yes, if you're asking how far I personally think the rabbit hole goes, I think it goes all the way down. I believe we are all very complicated automatons with some very sophisticated programming, but we are programmed automatons nonetheless. But that reality (or unreality, if I'm wrong) isn't practically applicable on an everyday basis. At least for now, we have to run our society as if free will exists even if it doesn't.
Okay. I understand. And by "run out society as if free will exists even if it doesn't" -- you mean that we have to hold people responsible for the crimes they commit right? Or are you talking about something else?
I'm sure culturally it probably means something. But I don't see a whole of difference between someone that's attracted to a 13 year old and a 14 year old... They're both children still. I don't know German law though, so that poster previously that said if you're over a certain age you can't get involved with someone that young is probably right.
yeah, that's ... well ... uhm ... exactly what i was trying to say. I hope you're just quoting me because you're agreeing with me?
If I recall correctly in these cases 14 is legal in a sense that both are underage. If a guy is 17 and the girl is 14 then it might be ok. If the other one is 18+ then it's not.
When I look at the guy and the girl I think that she looks older and he is an attractive guy. So my mind starts to think how this happened.
This is wrong and should not have happened and he should have definitely not done anything. The guy is only at fault no matter what. A kid is a kid.
It's actually a bit more complicated than that here in Germany, there's an intricate framework of laws and exceptions taking into account the age of both persons involved and their relation to each other. However, the lowest so-called "Schutzalter" sits at 14 years, and it's a hard border. Sexing anything below that will get you in trouble with the law, no matter what. The next border is 16 years, then 18 years.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Hard to believe, but the thread is a bit more shocking than the crime.
Something else, because we actually don't need to hold people responsible for their crimes to "punish" them. If prison is simply a penal system where we punish those who choose to do bad things, then yes, free will must exist. If it is instead a system of deterrence, then that's not necessary -- we could "punish" people so that other people don't engage in the same behavior.
I meant this on a much more practical scale. When dealing with my friends, or my coworkers, it makes sense to treat them as people who are making choices. In theory, if my girlfriend were to cheat on me and if I were given infinite access to the best technologies, I might be able to reverse engineer exactly why she did that. Some combination of a genetic propensity with certain effects during her childhood which led her to behave the way she did, and so forth. In that case, I might be able to absolve her of blame, or understand how to change her behavior in the future. But doing that could literally take a lifetime; I'd have to collect every piece of her genetic code and understand it perfectly. I'd have to know everything that ever happened to her, and then also understand how those events affected the biological makeup of her brain.
So rather than go through that lifelong process, it makes more sense to treat her as a person with agency making choices. Since lots of things happen every day, it's simply a much easier, more economically prudent decision to treat people as if they have free will than it is to reverse engineer every single action they take and understand precisely why it occurred on a biological level.
I looked up the law in Germany and it's actually a bit more complicated than that. In any case, this whole story is rather disturbing and I hope they catch the guy
I actually don't want to read all of this thread even if it's only two pages so far. The topic is uncomfortable but still here I am.
I don't have kids, but I always think about my nieces. They are young and close enough so that I imagine if this would happen to them. That makes me an angry man when I think of the possibilities.
I do not know german law at all, so I am using a vague memory of the age issue. My mom lives in Germany but I do not want to discuss this topic with her.
Bluekaveli
Member
Wow just wow
We're Germans, inventing hugely complex laws that account for everything and anything
(except for that one most obvious loophole)
For those with a passing interest, Wikipedia has a short-ish summary.
superdeluxe
Member
Morally/Ethically wrong. But is non-blood niece considered incest in Germany under the law?
Seems like the laws he has broken is having sex with a minor, owning a gun & perhaps kidnapping?
Seems like the laws he has broken is having sex with a minor, owning a gun & perhaps kidnapping?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Yeah you're not alone in that thinking. The age of consent in the US hovers around 16, with nuance in between states.
In any event, I'm surprised at the Gaffers who consent to this.
What if they live in places where this is legal?
Definetly kidnapping, possibly sex with minor. Incest, if they had sex, no. No direct relationship.
Most people hold significantly higher ethical standards than "well technically this is (just barely) legal in my country."
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