Support NeoGAF

[Zomba13]

https://youtu.be/1ORFgfhj_hM

2:40 and 4:00 Whatcha say dawg?

This is the multiplayer. Video from March, not a year old+

You might get lucky and see someone for a second. Servers still toast though

Yeah, he says EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING HE HAS BEEN SAYING. That is one of the videos that shows that it should be in and should work like expected.


Like, seriously, listen to what he says. Yes, he mentions how it's not Multiplayer in the sense of some FPS or actual advertised mutliplayer game is in that you can friends can join up and quest and pvp and all that. He does however specifically call out Journey and Dark Souls. Now Dark Souls he could just be referring to messages as the "sense that someone has been here" but in Journey you meet another player, you interact, you see each other. It might not be for long, it might not be the whole game, you might lose each other or just catch a glimpse as they move on (or you move on without them), but you see them and interact in some way. You couldn't invite your PSN buddy into a party and instantly join a lobby and no one expected that here, but they did expect to see another player when two or more are on the same planet together.

 

[7suna]

I sincerely hope all you who haven't bought the game yet are holding onto your money until Murray finds his balls and gives us an explanation. People who are pre-ordering and buying game despite this vague nonsense are basically sending the message 'This is OK. Jerking us around like this is OK, games industry.'

Personnaly I prefer the game like how it is now than what I imagined it could be.
I thought it was a 4X, something I'm not fond of, but actually it's more an explore game like subnautica.

 

[flkraven]

People are still defending the point that Sean never confirmed it? Can that video at the top of this page go into the OP...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVrDaudzn64

Sure

 

[Shari]

Some of you should really stop and think a moment. This is a person, a passionate person. Who has logged inhuman workhours for the last couple of weeks to get this thing ready for launch. Who just released his baby into the wild. Does he really deserve all this crap?

Like ever other indie developper EVER.

Working hard does not allow you to lie and misguide potential customers to increase sales.

Cant believe this arguments.

 

[Klyka]

But can I see other character?

 

[RichiRamjag]

Do me a favor. Read the Kotaku article again. Take a look at the quote and tell me again that he didn't lie.



"Ken Levine got away with misrepresenting his game, so Sean Murray should as well!"

Hey I'm not gonna reply anymore. Replying in the first place was a mistake. It's clear that a lot of people here are believing what they want to believe and they will not be dissuaded, no matter how compelling the evidence. While I feel that makes you guys a bunch of gullible, overenthusiastic, unrealistic money-dispensors, I think I would be just as big a fool to debate you guys. Facts, logic and reason are treated as irrelevant here and that makes the debate futile and infinite. This thread is an M.C. Escher painting.

But, like Escher's works, they're very nice to look at.

That's funny actually. I think those that purchased a game based on a feature that someone was very unclear about makes a person just as gullible, if not more.

 

[Theanine3D]

Sean is part of the pantheon now

I think we should wait and see before putting the blame solely on him. There's a chance that he's being gagged by Sony and prevented from saying anything.

Smaller studios like Hello Games generally are much more communicative with their fans than big ones. I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't dying to speak out right now, but is unable to for nondiscloseable reasons.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Had EA done this stunt all of you guys would be up their asses. This game was always, from the start very vague about its contents, what a player could expect etc. The maker needs to get called out for the deliberately vague and maybe outright deceiving advertising of the game imo.

 

[OCD Guy]

It's a pointless number so there is no reason to challenge it.
It's a proceduraly generated game world, for all practical purposes you can assume the number of possible combinations is infinite.
But this information is pointless. You can have 2 billion different planets just by changing their 24bit RGB color. Having a lot of different combinations doesn't need the difference between the combinations is meaningfull.
So challenging the 18 Quintilion number will be pointless since it doesn't mean much anyway.

I think that's very important to note.

A lot of people assumed the variety would be great between different planets and species.

Afterall Sean himself even mentioned that 10 million species had been discovered in the first day.

But for me it's the equivalent of having 500 variations of a Miata in Gran Turismo so they can say they have hundreds of cars.

I would honestly rather have 50 unique objects as opposed to 1000000000000 slight variations of the same thing.

 

[Alec]

Right, which doesnt actually mean that its possible for that to happen though.

Lol WHAT

Hahahahah

 

[Little Mons†er]

The way the Internet is ripping this game a new one

Too much hype damaged this badly

 

[Animation-Imp]

This whole situation reminds me of when Blizzard announced Karabor would not function as a capital city in Warlords of Draenor. People lost their minds over it, talking about broken promises, cut content etc. Now all this was months before the expansion even launched.

With NMS i'm not surprised that we're seeing similar reactions, especially since they didn't communicate this change pre launch.

But they did a couple days before launch,
They just suck at communication. These are computer scientists, not communication managers.

 

[Bytes]

Check how many times he said "conceptually"...
The game was in very early stages at those moments.
He has been clear, even two days before release.

And again, that's the problem.....he "clarifies" that the game is single player on Twitter just hours before release after spending years touting the ability for meetups and cooperation. And that's shady as hell.

A simple "we couldn't get it working" or "we are working on it but we couldn't get it ready before release" would have diffused this entire situation.

 

[SoulUnison]

This whole "controversy" has gone on way too long and gone way too far.

You're right, but only in the sense that the devs have had more than a year to settle on a definite feature set and consistent, accurate marketing, but as recently as 2 weeks ago they were still talking about the multiplayer functions of the game.

The day the game came out they were still tweeting as though the functionality was in the game but being hampered by server issues or some obscure activation/gameplay procedure.

 

[The Jackdog]

Check how many times he said "conceptually"...
The game was in very early stages at those moments.
He has been clear, even two days before release.
I really feel this is getting out of hand.

Theres multiple videos of him never saying conceptually, and straight up saying you can find your friends. run into them. play with them. greif them. none of these experiences are in the game.

We have a small team here who have created a very unique experience.
It's not perfect, but the flaws are easily outshined by the strong points.

No one is saying its a bad game (although some reviews are). People are pissed they were misled.

Comparing him to Molyneux is just wrong.
Almost everything he said it would be is in the game.
The size, the exploration, the factions, the spaceships, etc...

The cooperation he's talking about is community based.
He referred to that in several interviews. Communities working together to get a grasp on the games systems and that is in fact happening since before release.

This reads like trumps spokesperson saying "he didnt say people should shoot hiliary, he said 2nd amendment supporters are passionate!!!"

I feel a bit ashamed by these reactions.
Here we have a small devteam, who have worked their asses of the last couple of years to create a digital universe you can play around in. And some of you would nail him to the cross for a couple of media interviews given in early stages of development.

Some of you should really stop and think a moment. This is a person, a passionate person. Who has logged inhuman workhours for the last couple of weeks to get this thing ready for launch. Who just released his baby into the wild. Does he really deserve all this crap?

Again I'm a bit disgusted and ashamed.

Sean murray official gaf account?

I guess I see it differently? I see a company who is trying to sell a product who at multiple opportunities to correct, clarify, and explain, chose to mislead instead. This is still a product being released for money. Your money, my money if I chose to get it. Why shouldnt I be completely aware of what im buying? Maybe he wasnt misleading. Maybe it just wasnt in the game yet. Maybe he meant to put it in and it just didnt make the cut. Maybe its coming.

But we dont know. Because theyve been silent on it. Theyve been vauge and misleading on features of this game. I dont see why thats so hard to grasp. It doesnt make it a bad game, it doesnt make what this team accomplished less impressive. It just makes it shady and misleading.

 

[Bytes]

But can I see other character?

"Well, you know, that's not the main focus of the game" - Sean

 

[DOWN]

defenders in here like "what really is seeing? does him saying others can see what you look like really have to be a comment about the game? maybe by meeting he means the way simba spiritually meets up with his dad?"

 

[7suna]

i love this picture ahahahahah
so well done

True xD
Except that Molyneux is far ahead, not at the same level xD

 

[CraigerGamer]

Honestly surprised yet no one is challenging the 18 Quintillion number since there have been multiple instances of two or even in one case I read three players reaching the same planet (the two streamers trying to meet up found a planet named by a third player). It would be something easy to exaggerate from an algorithm standpoint but logistically not so much.

I suggest you leave this thread and start counting then. Please return once you are done.

 

[Pop]

Sure

Hey bro..

Can you put this one to in the op too? I mean, it's only the newest one with what exactly happens in multiplayer explained by the creator of the game.

https://youtu.be/1ORFgfhj_hM

Exactly 2:40 and 4:00 mark

Thx bruh. Glad we could all settle this.

 

[Klyka]

I think that's very important to note.

A lot of people assumed the variety would be great between different planets and species.

Afterall Sean himself even mentioned that 10 million species had been discovered in the first day.

But for me it's the equivalent of having 500 variations of a Miata in Gran Turismo so they can say they have hundreds of cars.

All you have to do is look at the streams on twitch.

The same types of planet have the same stuff on them with different colors.

The times anyone actually finds something that I haven't seen on someone else's stream yet are few and far between.

I really hope the generation shakes up a bit

 

[ClosingADoor]

https://youtu.be/1ORFgfhj_hM

2:40 and 4:00 Whatcha say dawg?

This is the multiplayer. Video from March, not a year old+

You might get lucky and see someone for a second. Servers still toast though

We don't know if that can happen. It is unclear. That is why this thread is 100+ pages...

You can repeat this video a dozen more times, but other videos state other things. So people are confused about what is actually going on and in the game now.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Murray is the new Molyneux.

Molydeux, if you will

You're fucking kidding right? The only thing that potentially can be inferred as a broken or oversold promise is seeing other players. Literally everything else was spot on or even undersold by Murray.

 

[Shari]

But they did a couple days before launch,
They just suck at communication. These are computer scientists, not communication managers.

He doesnt suck in communication, on the contrary, he masters it and contrary to the vast majority of PR he knows the business.

He's been putting all this mixed messages and playing with the fact people didnt know much about the game.

Having 10x more articles on lanch that INSIDE is not because the game is better or the studio has more rep (in fact, quite the contrary compared to Limbo's creators), it's because the hype train he has created.

You're fucking kidding right? The only thing that potentially can be inferred as a broken or oversold promise is seeing other players. Literally everything else was spot on or even undersold by Murray.

Variation and world size was clearly oversold when the truth is that after the first worlds you start to see paterns. In that regard he didnt lie but he overstated the size of the world, which in the end is meaningless for the player experience.

 

[DylanEno]

The Sean Murray apologists are blowing my mind rn. God bless them, lmao.

 

[OCD Guy]

But can I see other character?

"My mind is blown at the amount of people playing this game" Sean Murrary

Can I meet up with a friend?

"There are 10 million different species discovered in the first day, my mind is blown" Sean Murray

Please Sean, yes or no, can I actually come across other online players on a planet?

"My mind is blown at the amount of twitter support I'm receiving" Sean Murray

 

[ElfArmy177]

Everyone really needs to get over it... Most people never knew about the video if it had to be posted in the Op and "found". I never knew of it and I've been super excited for the game since announcement. Never once did they show multiplayer gameplay or anything. Personally I just think all of you are complaining to complain... :/ Sorry. Dude is a game developer who suddenly made a game so popular he probably has no idea how to handle things and made decisions on the fly about things.

Maybe that day they talked about it and then they took it out and he forgot about it... Who knows.. this isn't a AAA studio, cut the guy some slack.

 

[Animation-Imp]

Like ever other indie developper EVER.

Working hard does not allow you to lie and misguide potential customers to increase sales.

Cant believe this arguments.

And you're a 100% shure that's the case here?

You really think he lied to increase sales? Or could it be that at the moment of the interviews a soul's like interaction was still on the table, an idea the team played with.

I agree a hundre percent that their communication could be clearer.
But accusing him of being a liar, that's just a bridge too far for me.

 

[maabus1999]

It's a pointless number so there is no reason to challenge it.
It's a proceduraly generated game world, for all practical purposes you can assume the number of possible combinations is infinite.
But this information is pointless. You can have 2 billion different planets just by changing their 24bit RGB color. Having a lot of different combinations doesn't need the difference between the combinations is meaningfull.
So challenging the 18 Quintilion number will be pointless since it doesn't mean much anyway.

Maybe my last sentence wasn't clear but this was my point. There isn't anywhere near the number in a perceived sense due to how algorithm works. There may be 18 quintillion permutations but in the end I highly doubt they structured the logistics of player placement, data tracking, and seed generation to be anywhere near that number, which is why people are finding planets already discovered with at best a million players? ( I would guess a few 100K to be honest). They built the game in reality to a much, much smaller subset. It goes to the statement it would be difficult to "find another player" which this thread is about when in truth it isn't that hard at all...and therefore the starting planet seeds are fairly limited, and may always be.

 

[The Jackdog]

Hey bro..

Can you put this one to in the op too? I mean, it's only the newest one with what exactly happens in multiplayer explained by the creator of the game.

https://youtu.be/1ORFgfhj_hM

Exactly 2:40 and 4:00 mark

Thx bruh. Glad we could all settle this.

dont you get it? THIS IS THE ISSUE. Other videos say completely different things. Its total mixed messaging.

 

[ElfArmy177]

The Sean Murray apologists are blowing my mind rn. God bless them, lmao.

Because you've never made a mistake in your life right?

 

[nynt9]

Everyone really needs to get over it... Most people never knew about the video if it had to be posted in the Op and "found". I never knew of it and I've been super excited for the game since announcement. Never once did they show multiplayer gameplay or anything. Personally I just think all of you are complaining to complain... :/ Sorry. Dude is a game developer who suddenly made a game so popular he probably has no idea how to handle things and made decisions on the fly about things.

Maybe that day they talked about it and then they took it out and he forgot about it... Who knows.. this isn't a AAA studio, cut the guy some slack.

Sean was the lead developer of Black and he worked at EA. He's no newbie.

 

[Septic360]

Maybe that day they talked about it and then they took it out and he forgot about it... Who knows.. this isn't a AAA studio, cut the guy some slack.

What? No.

When enough people are asking for clarity on the point,the least he can do is at least come out and clarify the point. Stop defending this

 

[DeepEnigma]

We don't know if that can happen. It is unclear. That is why this thread is 100+ pages...

You can repeat this video a dozen more times, but other videos state other things. So people are confused about what is actually going on and in the game now.

But an older interview is allowed, when we are, you know, unclear? But the newer one is not?

This thread man, lol.

Yes I want answers, but let us not spin right round baby right round.

Variation and world size was clearly oversold when the truth is that after the first worlds you start to see paterns. In that regard he didnt lie but he overstated the size of the world, which in the end is meaningless for the player experience.

Truth be told, everyone's experience is different in this game. Some are seeing completely different things, others are seeing similar in the same solar system.

He did not overstate the size of the world, if anything, he undersold it... because holy shit are they incomprehensibly massive for a game (I still cannot wrap my head around the area I explore the size of all open world games is legit the size of a pin tip on these worlds). He also said they are biomes, so there is no lie.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I'm puzzled by the ambiguity regarding the nature of online interaction. They said we could meet up with other players. We can't. It's a pretty open shut case. The only question is WHY can't we. I'm guessing by his vague damage control tweet the he backpedalled on minutes later that multiplayer is just not in the game but for some unfathomable reason they wanted us to think it was possible. Honestly, dude seems like he has good intentions but his head is in the clouds. I'm sure he's getting a dose of reality now though. Be kind, people.

 

[thecouncil]

So, he was asked straight after that if "you could run into other people, other players". He said "Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare."

Like, how you can take that more than one way? Where is the forced narrative?

0% is incredibly rare.

Look, Sean seems like a cool humble dude. Someone I could call my "bro". And my bros don't lie to me. So I'd really appreciate it if people stopped talking about him like this.

And, honestly, if he was lying, then I forgive him. I'd love to be tricked into playing a game this great more often.

 

[Tagyhag]

Oh my God people here are playing the indie card now?

Guess what, there's thousands of other indie developers, do they not work hard as well?

They do, but that doesn't mean that they can be free of criticism.

 

[10k]

Sean is part of the pantheon now

My soul has left my body.

 

[MaDKaT]

And again, that's the problem.....he "clarifies" that the game is single player on Twitter just hours before release after spending years touting the ability for meetups and cooperation. And that's shady as hell.

A simple "we couldn't get it working" or "we are working on it but we couldn't get it ready before release" would have diffused this entire situation.

Honestly, they have been pushing the narrative that it is a single player experience since pretty early. The "Multiplayer", if it can even be called that, was pretty much always billed as chance encounter. While obviously not precluding playing with friends, if you happen to find them, it was never billed as something with any sort of traditional multi or coop features.

That said. Unless we got more since it was clarified for me last night. We still dont know what the issue is. Seems premature to preach Lies and Deception based on what little we have. Lack of communication sucks but could very well be explained but some sort of NDA or gag.

 

[Pop]

But an older interview is allowed, when we are, you know, unclear? But the newer one is not?

This thread man, lol.

Yes I want answers, but let us not spin right round baby right round.

It's gotta fit their agenda to be accepted. That fucking video is clear evidence of what goes down but hey continue to parade around.

 

[flkraven]

Hey bro..

Can you put this one to in the op too? I mean, it's only the newest one with what exactly happens in multiplayer explained by the creator of the game.

https://youtu.be/1ORFgfhj_hM

Exactly 2:40 and 4:00 mark

Thx bruh. Glad we could all settle this.

Dude, he doesn't say anything during that period of time. He jerks off for a minute to sheer unlikeliness of 2 people being in the same space, and then in the last 20 seconds he side steps exactly what would happen, talks about you sensing things, says 'dark souls' and 'journey' and moves on.

 

[Tunesmith]

Honestly surprised yet no one is challenging the 18 Quintillion number since there have been multiple instances of two or even in one case I read three players reaching the same planet (the two streamers trying to meet up found a planet named by a third player). It would be something easy to exaggerate from an algorithm standpoint but logistically not so much.

The amount of theoretical planets their algorithm allows isn't necessarily linked to the algorithms' ability to seed players evenly across it all.

 

[maabus1999]

And again, that's the problem.....he "clarifies" that the game is single player on Twitter just hours before release after spending years touting the ability for meetups and cooperation. And that's shady as hell.

A simple "we couldn't get it working" or "we are working on it but we couldn't get it ready before release" would have diffused this entire situation.

I doubt they have any realtime netcode due to how the upload functionality works..

 

[Shari]

And you're a 100% shure that's the case here?

You really think he lied to increase sales? Or could it be that at the moment of the interviews a soul's like interaction was still on the table, an idea the team played with.

I agree a hundre percent that their communication could be clearer.
But accusing him of being a liar, that's just a bridge too far for me.

Yes, much like molyneux he promised X, didnt deliver and kept quiet until people found out in hopes sales wouldnt be affected.

Again, this is a guy that writes 5-10 tweets per day and didnt write a single one in almost 48h since this mess started.

He's hoping for an unaffected PC release and next week once refund period is gone he'll give a statement saying this is coming later on. I'd bet you money on it.

 

[ResoRai]

Everyone really needs to get over it... Most people never knew about the video if it had to be posted in the Op and "found". I never knew of it and I've been super excited for the game since announcement. Never once did they show multiplayer gameplay or anything. Personally I just think all of you are complaining to complain... :/ Sorry. Dude is a game developer who suddenly made a game so popular he probably has no idea how to handle things and made decisions on the fly about things.

Maybe that day they talked about it and then they took it out and he forgot about it... Who knows.. this isn't a AAA studio, cut the guy some slack.

So those who knew can't be disappointed and look for the devs to give a straight answer?

 

[Afrowhitey]

Yeah, he says EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING HE HAS BEEN SAYING. That is one of the videos that shows that it should be in and should work like expected.


Like, seriously, listen to what he says. Yes, he mentions how it's not Multiplayer in the sense of some FPS or actual advertised mutliplayer game is in that you can friends can join up and quest and pvp and all that. He does however specifically call out Journey and Dark Souls. Now Dark Souls he could just be referring to messages as the "sense that someone has been here" but in Journey you meet another player, you interact, you see each other. It might not be for long, it might not be the whole game, you might lose each other or just catch a glimpse as they move on (or you move on without them), but you see them and interact in some way. You couldn't invite your PSN buddy into a party and instantly join a lobby and no one expected that here, but they did expect to see another player when two or more are on the same planet together.

And just like Demon/Dark Souls I couldn't see or play with my son in the same house.

Even though we were in the same spot and used the item that was supposed to be used in the game. They didn't lie, they didn't deceive, they had problems with their system for almost 3 weeks. I could still play the core function of the game and gave the AAA studio the benefit of the doubt.

NOW a game on the same scale and being sold the same way is functioning the same but being thrown under the bus. Even though it was done by almost 100 less people. People are such hypocrites it's astounding here. The whole game is still there and they are having problems with the other. Pretty simple logic.
Here's an article still showing how Bandai Namco hasn't fixed the original problems that still persist trying to play with each other on the Original Dark Souls, yet this game is getting the whole witch hunt. IT's pretty hilarious how one is the king of gaming for the same problems, yet an indie team can't have problem while still trying to release their game for another platform.
The mental gymnastics in this thread show, why us as a gaming community never thrive.
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...bandai-namco-working-on-fix-for-the-issue.htm

 

[vkris]

It wasn't minor for me

This isn't directly to you, but to anyone who purchased the game because they wanted to meet up with their buds. It's honestly silly 'cause they've downplayed the MP since Day 1.
Did you really want to buy this because you could SEE and not interact with a person if by some cosmic miracle you crossed paths?

Remember when they released 4 trailers for the pillars of the game?
None of them talked about MP. 'Cause it's not about MP. Not in the slightest. The feature that is missing (or not working atm) is currently a single sprinkle on the icing of the cake.

That being said, yes, we should be able to see other players *if* we meet up.
I'm not saying he gets a free pass, but people seem to be comparing him to Molyneux, where that's clearly not the case. They've been completely open about almost literally every other aspect of the game.

This is like... This is like railing on a new Tetris game because it doesn't have a Story/Adventure mode, which they promised. Like yeah, sure, you were super down to learn about the adventures of the Tetrimino, but the mode is a tac-on that has nothing to do with the core concept. You're still entitled to being angry that you don't have the mode. However, in 2016, you'd think you'd read a review before purchasing. If you didn't purchase yet, then congrats, you don't have to buy it.

 

[thecouncil]

This is about ethics in video game... development.

 

[The Jackdog]

So, he was asked straight after that if "you could run into other people, other players". He said "Yes, but the chances of that are incredibly rare."

Like, how you can take that more than one way? Where is the forced narrative?

0% is incredibly rare.

Look, Sean seems like a cool humble dude. Someone I could call my "bro". And my bros don't lie to me. So I'd really appreciate it if people stopped talking about him like this.

And, honestly, if he was lying, then I forgive him. I'd love to be tricked into playing a game this great more often.

this post sequence. this post sequence.....unbelievable.

Guys, sean didnt lie, he was totally honest. 0% is SUPER RARE!!! Dont you guys GET it??

My head is spinning just trying to make the leaps you are to say "a zero percent chance is rare so he was honest, i prefer that to 'no there is not multiplayer'"

 

[Tagyhag]

Honestly, they have been pushing the narrative that it is a single player experience since pretty early. The "Multiplayer", if it can even be called that, was pretty much always billed as chance encounter. While obviously not precluding playing with friends, if you happen to find them, it was never billed as something with any sort of traditional multi or coop features.

That said. Unless we got more since it was clarified for me last night. We still dont know what the issue is. Seems premature to preach Lies and Deception based on what little we have. Lack of communication sucks but could very well be explained but some sort of NDA or gag.

Considering how badly gagged Sony had them regarding the PC version, I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

If that were true though, that'd be a reeeaaaal bad look for Sony.