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[Air Zombie Meat]

Arizona has the second highest pedestrian fatality rate in the country. The law exists for a reason

This jaywalking being a crime stuff is weird to me so I've been doing a bit of reading about it and came across this:

The UK is among those countries where jaywalking is not an offence. But the rate of pedestrian deaths is half that of the US, at 0.736 per 100,000 inhabitants in 2011 compared to 1.422 per 100,000 in America.

Heres the full article: Jaywalking: How the car industry outlawed crossing the road

Honestly sounds like a bullshit law to me. From what I've been reading theres no evidence to suggest it prevents deaths and plenty that suggests it has no effect. It does seem like a good revenue stream for police departments though.

 

[jimi_dini]

Once again two different eyes. Everything the cop says is gospel while the clearly offended and distraught person is wrong. What's the likelihood a college professor is drunk on campus anyway?

I never said that she was drunk. I said that what she says during that video could make her appear to be drunk, which would make sense in general especially on a campus. The police officer just saw a woman (not a "professor") walking - and I quote - "in the middle of the street", while cars are driving by.

He then tells her that and shes goes on and on about him being disrespectful and other stuff. Which already is quite strange. She could have just said "I'm sorry officer", instead she rambles about this and that. He even explains it. And she still goes on. Only then he asks her for ID. And then she still rambles on and on and doesn't answer the request at all. Not even with a "no, I don't have it with me". He is even patient and asks again and again and again. She simply ignores it totally.

I mean honestly - if you are in a stress situation, would you call a police officer disrespectful, when he clearly isn't? And then ramble around instead of at least reacting in one way or another to the officer?

 

[kess]

Arizona has the second highest pedestrian fatality rate in the country. The law exists for a reason

The primary responsibility should fall on the driver, since he or she is driving something that can kill others.

Arizona really has no real excuse for such a high rate compared to a state like Pennsylvania, which has more big cities, more elderly, and more people. I know where I go to college, there are clear, delineated walkways that traffic ABSOLUTELY has to stop at if there are pedestrians on it.

 

[Oli]

I'm more disappointed by the pathetic response from the university. An institution of higher knowledge shouldn't be so quick to look at laws in such a black and white fashion.

ASU essentially said, "Yeah, this is alright."

Yeah, even KFC stood behind their employee more than this.

 

[massoluk]

I listened to the entire thing.. I'm with the cop here. The lady was acting absolutely crazy. Aside from the physical at the end, the cop was rather polite imo until she start asking about.. I don't what she's trying to ask, she just turned hysterical there.

 

[Game-Biz]

Surprised to see that there are some defending this woman. Yes, if she was simply jaywalking quickly across a street, then the cop was being an ass - even so, she was breaking the law and he had clear legal ground to stop and ticket her. But the way she handled everything...fucking idiotic.

 

[J.ceaz]

I mean honestly - if you are in a stress situation, would you call a police officer disrespectful, when he clearly isn't? And then ramble around instead of at least reacting in one way or another to the officer?

Who knows what you would do in a stress situation? we all would react differently and we can't say how we'd act until it happens to us. But clearly isn't disrespectful? the stop itself can be disrespectful. Unfortunately we don't have audio for that. I mean she asks for respectful treatment at the start so its possible she was disrespected beforehand.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I listened to the entire thing.. I'm with the cop here. The lady was acting absolutely crazy. Aside from the physical at the end, the cop was rather polite imo until she start asking about.. I don't what she's trying to ask, she just turned hysterical there.

She has no weapons and it not like she was throwing punches and flailing her arms everywhere. It appears he had two other officers as backup he blew the entire situation way out of proportion.

 

[Jmanunknown]

Surprised to see that there are some defending this woman. Yes, if she was simply jaywalking quickly across a street, then the cop was being an ass - even so, she was breaking the law and he had clear legal ground to stop and ticket her. But the way she handled everything...fucking idiotic.

Yeah I agree she should know her place right.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I'm going to be honest she should have just showed her ID. I've had friends stopped by cops for jay walking before.

 

[|ync]

I'm done. Bro, you're wrong. Full name is merely a verbal statement. Documentation is not required. The word "true" does not make documentation a requirement. My links have said that. Your link said that.

I'm quoting you because you seem especially fixated on the letter of the law, but also to other people talking about whether submitting to the request to present id is a legal requirement.

The cop has stopped her because he saw her jaywalk, which, regardless of the merits of the law, is illegal in Arizona and many other places in the world. So the cop says "I'm writing you a ticket for jaywalking, who should I make it out to?" are you expecting me to believe that there's anywhere in the world where replying "sure make that out to John Smith" is sufficient proof of identification?

(please don't respond that those are not the exact words used by the cop, I'm just illustrating why id is expected and required in such situations)

 

[jimi_dini]

But clearly isn't disrespectful? the stop itself can be disrespectful.

Of course. How dare a police officer stops a "professor".

Her attitude is kinda obvious - I quote: "your lack of respect FOR ME FOR ME ... I'm a professor of the university bla bla" while resisting arrest. What the fuck did she expect? "Oh I'm sorry, you are saying that you are a professor. So off you go, I shouldn't have tried to arrest you. You are much better than me. Resisting arrest? That's normally a problem, but for professors there is an exception in the law"

It seems as if she treats him like one of her pupils.

She even says that she didn't know the law. Which is okay, but she is a professor. She should be able to put 2 and 2 together. "I didn't know the law. Oh this isn't allowed? Maybe the police officer was right to stop me and I should just stop rambling, say that I'm sorry and stop acting like a crazy person".

But instead she even tried to use the "but everyone does it" excuse. Normally even teenagers know that this excuse never works out.

Unfortunately we don't have audio for that. I mean she asks for respectful treatment at the start so its possible she was disrespected beforehand.

Yeah, I bet he called her a cunt and then just switched to "M'am" right afterwards. (this is sarcasm). None of the things he said hints to him being even slightly disrespectful beforehand. It seems as if she felt offended, because she obviously didn't know the law (her fault) and also obviously felt superior to him (her fault as well). Those 2 are a very bad combination.

 

[J.ceaz]

Two different sets.

 

[terrisus]

.

That's from Wikipedia.

I gave you the actual laws. Try again.

(Which oddly enough are linked to on that Wikipedia page! Oh damn!)

My last try.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

The joys of people using Wikipedia pages as "sources" or "references..."

 

[ishibear]

Of course. How dare a police officer stops a "professor".

Her attitude is kinda obvious - I quote: "your lack of respect FOR ME FOR ME ... I'm a professor of the university bla bla" while resisting arrest. What the fuck did she expect? "Oh I'm sorry, you are saying that you are a professor. So off you go, I shouldn't have tried to arrest you. You are much better than me. Resisting arrest? That's normally a problem, but for professors there is an exception in the law"

It seems as if she treats him like one of her pupils.

Or maybe... get this, okay? Maybe, she was trying to prove she's a law abiding citizen, with an upstanding career and has no reason to break the law intentionally?

Or is that too hard for you to grasp since you know, you're so offended by her?

 

[Vilam]

I hope J,ceaz never finds himself stopped by an officer, he doesn't sound like he handles dealing with authority figures well. People let their pride get them into bad situations.

 

[MHWilliams]

I'm quoting you because you seem especially fixated on the letter of the law, but also to other people talking about whether submitting to the request to present id is a legal requirement.

The cop has stopped her because he saw her jaywalk, which, regardless of the merits of the law, is illegal in Arizona and many other places in the world. So the cop says "I'm writing you a ticket for jaywalking, who should I make it out to?" are you expecting me to believe that there's anywhere in the world where replying "sure make that out to John Smith" is sufficient proof of identification?

(please don't respond that those are not the exact words used by the cop, I'm just illustrating why id is expected and required in such situations)

Again, not required. And yes, it is sufficient. In many states, and in this case, Arizona.

You can expect whatever you want, but if you come to me as an officer of the law, I expect and require you to follow that law, not just the parts that make your job easier.

This is what police officers tell each other, as written by Beverly A. Ginn, Principal Assistant City Attorney and Legal Advisor to the Tucson Police Department, Tucson, Arizona. http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...eaction=display&article_id=382&issue_id=92004

What Hiibel Means and Does
Not Mean for Law Enforcement
Hiibel affirms that during a lawful Terry stop an officer may ask the detained person to state his or her name. Hiibel also affirms that in states that have statutes that make it a crime for a person to refuse to identify himself on demand during a Terry stop, a person may be arrested for refusing to do so.

It is important to note what Hiibel does not do. It does not extend or expand the scope of a permitted Terry stop or provide a new or different basis on which to stop and detain persons. It does not permit officers to demand proof or documentation of identity. It does not permit officers to randomly stop persons and demand that they identify themselves.

She's going to get hit on assaulting the officer, but is she required to produce ID, like the officer said repeatedly? Nope.

 

[J.ceaz]

I hope J,ceaz never finds himself stopped by an officer, he doesn't sound like he handles dealing with authority figures well. People let their pride get them into bad situations.

I know my place in America.

 

[Jenov]

Wait, you have to show ID if a cop demands it or you get arrested? What if you don't have an ID? What if you just don't have a driver's license? What if you just left your wallet at home that day?

Forgot the fact that she was jaywalking eh?

 

[Jenov]

Again, not required. And yes, it is sufficient. In many states, and in this case, Arizona.

You can expect whatever you want, but if you come to me as an officer of the law, I expect and require you to follow that law, not just the parts that make your job easier.

This is what police officers tell each other, as written by Beverly A. Ginn, Principal Assistant City Attorney and Legal Advisor to the Tucson Police Department, Tucson, Arizona. http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...eaction=display&article_id=382&issue_id=92004


She's going to get hit on assaulting the officer, but is she required to produce ID, like the officer said repeatedly? Nope.

So when the officer says "license and registration" when you're pulled over in a car, you're not required to show them ID? You can just tell him "nope" and everything should be fine eh?

lol k

 

[Pritchardo]

It's actually really common on college campuses. Usually to defend the students as it is extremely common and ends up in dangerous situations for the jay walker

yer but think about it though. getting done for walking across a street lmao.

 

[DrForester]

Curious if this was a crackdown due to a lot of jawywalking in the area. How many other people were stopped that day?

 

[|ync]

Again, not required. And yes, it is sufficient. In many states, and in this case, Arizona.

You can expect whatever you want, but if you come to me as an officer of the law, I expect and require you to follow that law, not just the parts that make your job easier.

This is what police officers tell each other, as written by Beverly A. Ginn, Principal Assistant City Attorney and Legal Advisor to the Tucson Police Department, Tucson, Arizona. http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...eaction=display&article_id=382&issue_id=92004


She's going to get hit on assaulting the officer, but is she required to produce ID, like the officer said repeatedly? Nope.

The relevant portion of your reference seems to apply to "Terry stops" which I had to look up. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop (sorry everyone, it's Wikipedia). "a "Terry stop" is a brief detention of a person by police[1] on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest." I don't think that applies in this situation since probable cause was not in question.

Again, I have to question your application or interpretation of the laws you are quoting since it would make it impossible to issue tickets for non vehicular offenses such as jaywalking, public urination, etc.

 

[Jenov]

The relevant portion of your reference seems to apply to "Terry stops" which I had to look up. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop (sorry everyone, it's Wikipedia). "a "Terry stop" is a brief detention of a person by police[1] on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity but short of probable cause to arrest." I don't think that applies in this situation since probable cause was not in question.

Again, I have to question your application or interpretation of the laws you are quoting since it would make it impossible to issue tickets for non vehicular offenses such as jaywalking, public urination, etc.

Agreed, this was not a "Terry stop."

 

[mugurumakensei]

Or maybe... get this, okay? Maybe, she was trying to prove she's a law abiding citizen, with an upstanding career and has no reason to break the law intentionally?

Or is that too hard for you to grasp since you know, you're so offended by her?

There's a lot of people who run red lights and speed unintentionally.
Not all crimes are intentional. We'll never know what would have happened if she gave him her ID. Hell, he might have just given her a warning afterwards. That the officer stops and asks you for an ID doesn't mean he's automatically going to ticket you. The intention of identification is to run a check on your record. In the case that an officer does decide to give you a ticket, it also acts to ensure the right person is responsible for any debts/fines that occur as a consequence of sentencing.

 

[Fusebox]

gotta admit it it's kind of a strange feeling knowing I will never be arrested or merely confronted for jaywalking. I can't even relate to that concept. I don't even know what I would do.

This is only because the fashion police don't have enough power yet.

 

[user8503492]

Ive been caught jay-walking. Cop looked at my ID and warned me.

All he said was "Look man, I know its not a big deal for you but we just dont want kids to see people do it. So we stop people, and sometimes ticket them, to scare little kids from not using crosswalks"

And I think she acted a fool and brought it on herself.

 

[ishibear]

There's a lot of people who run red lights and speed unintentionally.
Not all crimes are intentional. We'll never know what would have happened if she gave him her ID. Hell, he might have just given her a warning afterwards. That the officer stops and asks you for an ID doesn't mean he's automatically going to ticket you. The intention of identification is to run a check on your record. In the case that an officer does decide to give you a ticket, it also acts to ensure the right person is responsible for any debts/fines that occur as a consequence of sentencing.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person because none of this is relevant to my post at all.

I'm defending the woman's right to say she's a professor at ASU since some people see that as "offensive" or snobby.

 

[lemonade]

The officer could have de-esculated the situation by just letting her speak her mind. ASU professor may have avoided the situation by just showing the id. The officer did nothing wrong outside the law. I understand that many people say that jaywalking is a stupid crime (hell I do it all the time) but the fact is, an officer can stop you anytime for doing it. Yes, I agree the officer could have handled the situation a lot more efficiently, but he is not at fault. I also think she should be charge for aggravated assault. Police departments should make everyone take sensitivity training courses to avoid bs like this. With all the construction around, it would make sense to wink an eye until the project cleared up.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I think you may have quoted the wrong person because none of this is relevant to my post at all.

I'm defending the woman's right to say she's a professor at ASU since some people see that as "offensive" or snobby.

I'm a professor is neither a name or an ID. It's kind of irrelevant info that is going to be perceived as snobby.

With all the construction around, it would make sense to wink an eye until the project cleared up.

The road is not completely closed off. Construction crews would still be running through, and you see someone coming out of an alleyway or parking structure in the full video.

 

[lemonade]

I'm a professor is neither a name or an ID. It's kind of irrelevant info that is going to be perceived as snobby.



The road is not completely closed off. Construction crews would still be running through, and you see someone coming out of an alleyway or parking structure in the full video.

True. Hey, sometimes your the only one to get a ticket. Sucks, but that's sometimes how it goes...

 

[ishibear]

I'm a professor is neither a name or an ID. It's kind of irrelevant info that is going to be perceived as snobby.

So, now you just feel like bickering for the hell of it? Fine.

It's not irrelevant info. How many people get stopped and questioned but in an attempt to somehow reason with law enforcement, they say things like "I'm just a simple mother with kids and I have no reason to break the law" or "I'm a student here, I wouldn't do anything to get in trouble"?

It's called, pleading your case, not making people on a computer feel like crap because I'm quite certain she wasn't thinking about your ego when she wanted to paint herself in a pleasant light.

Stop making this shit about yourselves and talk about the important matters instead of how a lady hurt your feelings with her talk of her career.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So, now you just feel like bickering for the hell of it? Fine.

It's not irrelevant info. How many people get stopped and questioned but in an attempt to somehow reason with law enforcement, they say things like "I'm just a simple mother with kids and I have no reason to break the law" or "I'm a student here, I wouldn't do anything to get in trouble"?

It's called, pleading your case, not making people on a computer feel like crap because I'm quite certain she wasn't thinking about your ego when she wanted to paint herself in a pleasant light.

You would typically say that while you hand over your ID or after saying your name.
Saying that you are a professor instead of saying your name or ID though makes it seems like you shouldn't do this because I am "X".

 

[ishibear]

You would typically say that while you hand over your ID or after saying your name.
Saying that you are a professor instead of saying your name or ID though makes it seems like you shouldn't do this because I am "X".

So you're still making this about how you feel about her? Let's play with this 'typically' word a bit.

You would 'typically' say things like this and feel this way about a person who is proud of themselves because you're jealous or looking for a scapegoat. Getting upset about a person using their status as a means of sympathy speaks more about how comfortable you are with your person.

It's so fucking unnecessary to talk about.

 

[MHWilliams]

So when the officer says "license and registration" when you're pulled over in a car, you're not required to show them ID? You can just tell him "nope" and everything should be fine eh?

lol k

Offenses in a vehicle are completely different. I've linked the relevant laws and you obviously haven't bothered to read them.

Again, I have to question your application or interpretation of the laws you are quoting since it would make it impossible to issue tickets for non vehicular offenses such as jaywalking, public urination, etc.

Happens all the time. This may shock you, but people don't always carry ID when heading out (things like running, for example) and police still have the ability to ticket offenders. There are very few state laws and no Federal law requiring citizens to always carry ID. Most attempts, like Arizona's immigration documentation law, get stuck down at a federal level.

People are apparently shocked by this revelation?

 

[mugurumakensei]

So you're still making this about how you feel about her? Let's play with this 'typically' word a bit.

You would 'typically' say things like this and feel this way about a person who is proud of themselves because you're jealous or looking for a scapegoat. Getting upset about a person using their status as a means of sympathy speaks more about how comfortable you are with your person.

It's so fucking unnecessary to talk about.

First of all, I have no reason to be jealous of a professor (which by the way that's wrong in her case since technically she is an assistant professor).
Secondly, I don't think anyone should use any status to get out of crime except when it would inflict undue burden on the perpetrator. For example, large fines on a person who is poor seems counter-intuitive, The state will never see the money, and, now, the person has to deal with money concerns.
Circumstance, however, can be used. If you are speeding because a family member or friend were injured while you were on the road, the person might need a little bit of leniency in terms of fine or punishment. On the other hand, the fact you are wealthy, a doctor, a physicist, a professor, the head of Microsoft's R&D department, a target manager, a sales clerk, etc are not valid reasons to be lenient. If your record shows clear however of recent (0-2 years) traffic violations, the officer should and probably will be lenient.

 

[rtcn63]

The rational person in me says that the cop was just being overly cautious, and the professor shouldn't have escalated the situation, even if a bit. The brown person in me (not literally or sexually) who's lived his entire life in the US, been a victim of racial profiling and just meandering bigotry in general, wonders if her only perceived crime at the moment was that the professor had the audacity of walking while being black.

And yes, I've been carded on my college campus. Not seen anyone else.

 

[ishibear]

First of all, I have no reason to be jealous of a professor (which by the way that's wrong in her case since technically she is an assistant professor).
Secondly, I don't think anyone should use any status to get out of crime except when it would inflict undue burden on the perpetrator. For example, large fines on a person who is poor seems counter-intuitive, The state will never see the money, and, now, the person has to deal with money concerns.
Circumstance, however, can be used. If you are speeding because a family member or friend were injured while you were on the road, the person might need a little bit of leniency in terms of fine or punishment. On the other hand, the fact you are wealthy, a doctor, a physicist, a professor, the head of Microsoft's R&D department, a target manager, a sales clerk, etc are not valid reasons to be lenient. If your record shows clear however of recent (0-2 years) traffic violations, the officer should and probably will be lenient.

The bolded amuses me considering you claim not to be jealous. Why keep trying to tear her down then?

 

[KevinRo]

This idiot escalated things on her own. She deserved it as she thought she had special rights or privelages.

When a cop asks me questions and shit you bet your ass I'm polite as fuck with him. Why irritate a man who has to deal with idiots and criminals all day long.

Fucking stupid.

 

[MHWilliams]

The rational person in me says that the cop was just being overly cautious, and the professor shouldn't have escalated the situation, even if a bit. The brown person in me (not literally or sexually) who's lived his entire life in the US, been a victim of racial profiling and just meandering bigotry in general, wonders if her only perceived crime at the moment was that the professor had the audacity of walking while being black.

And yes, I've been carded on my college campus. Not seen anyone else.

This is what bothers me. I've been there. Three times, frequently because I tend to live in places with a low minority population. That's why I know my fucking rights.

I probably would've complied within my rights and then filed a complaint with the police department, that would obviously have gone nowhere. But she didn't and shouldn't have to. Just because a cop says he needs her ID under the law, does not mean he did. He was in the wrong there.

Doesn't make her reaction any smarter, but he was wrong. Who cares if his tone is polite?

"Please step out of the car so I can search your vehicle," in a polite tone is still an illegal request. Just because many comply doesn't mean you should. I bet most don't even know that it is illegal.

 

[MonkeyKing]

This is the cop's fault. Tell her not to jaywalk and keep it moving. But no, instead we get a clash between people that hate being challenged and can't de-escalate from confrontation.

 

[mugurumakensei]

This is what bothers me. I've been there. Three times, frequently because I tend to live in places with a low minority population. That's why I know my fucking rights.

I probably would've complied within my rights and then filed a complaint with the police department, that would obviously have gone nowhere. But she didn't and shouldn't have to. Just because a cop says he needs her ID under the law, does not mean he did. He was in the wrong there.

Technically, ID was the quickest way to do it as otherwise she would have to provide name and address to verify who she is. Her ID would already have that information on it making the process smoother. Now, in her case, he would probably be able to identify the right Ersula Ore rather easily since it's not a common name.

 

[MHWilliams]

Technically, ID was the quickest way to do it as otherwise she would have to provide name and address to verify who she is. Her ID would already have that information on it making the process smoother. Now, in her case, he would probably be able to identify the right Ersula Ore rather easily since it's not a common name.

Hey, not arguing with that. But she certainly doesn't have to and it's certainly not illegal not to.

 

[CornBurrito]

The joys of people using Wikipedia pages as "sources" or "references..."

Is it alright if I use a source that Wikipedia uses?

Also what''s the logic behind having to provide your ID whenever a cop requests it? I mean I can figure why Arizona does it, since they have an intense hatred for illegal immigrants. But what about other states in the US? And what's the official reason for it existing in Arizona?

 

[mugurumakensei]

Hey, not arguing with that. But she certainly doesn't have to and it's certainly not illegal not to.

Yea it's not illegal not show ID. However, it is illegal to fail to identify one's self as requested. If you are aware of what your rights are you would know you can say I don't have my ID on me but my name is "X". I live at address "Y" in "city state". You can also do this in a vehicle stop too. Any charges relating to no ID will be dropped if you show evidence you had a valid license(not expired) when stopped.

 

[Gray Matter]

And jaywalking continues to be the stupidest "crime" ever.

 

[Jenov]

Offenses in a vehicle are completely different. I've linked the relevant laws and you obviously haven't bothered to read them.

Cool, so hey could you explain what a Terry stop is for us?

So anyways here's the point: They saw her committing the crime.

This is a situation where they witnessed the crime.

Read this: http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terry-stop/

The whole idea is... this wasn't a terry stop. They didn't just randomly suspect her of possible crimes, they watched her do it.

 

[terrisus]

Is it alright if I use a source that Wikipedia uses?

Sure, knock yourself out.

At least then it's a static object which can be properly evaluated and considered.

 

[benjipwns]

Also what''s the logic behind having to provide your ID whenever a cop requests it? I mean I can figure why Arizona does it, since they have an intense hatred for illegal immigrants. But what about other states in the US? And what's the official reason for it existing in Arizona?

So they can see if they have reason to arrest/ticket you for something.

or

Fuck you, that's why.

 

[MHWilliams]

Cool, so hey could you explain what a Terry stop is for us?

Police stop for reasonable suspicion. Not an arrest.

You don't need to provide ID for an arrest either. Also shocking, I know.

Again... at no point does a person not in a vehicle have to produce valid ID. All they have to do is identify themselves with their full name (and address in some states). People are acting like this is odd, or it will destroy the fabric of our nation. It's not and it won't.