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Black Mother Killed in Her Home by Baltimore Police, Child Shot
- Thread starter bman94
- Start date
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I just....what?!
It says right in the article that she pointed a gun at police multiple times. You point a gun at a cop, they pull the trigger.
That is literally what is taught in the academy.
Also, that thread title. Jeez.
That sounds like a terrible situation, but at least the cops tried this time. In most cases we could dream up the most insane, sensational outcome and it probably wouldn't even match reality. For example, I've read stories about police driving tank-like vehicles into the wrong house then shooting everyone inside all because someone reported that they "may" have some weed. So a black woman with a gun? I'm surprised they didn't light the house on fire.
Charles Brandon
Member
Even if there is a child present? A child got shot here, lucky not to be dead, I can't see how the police can say that is justified.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Amazing how so many in the thread simply believe the narrative by the police.
As if police narrative hasn't been contradicted once videos come out.
No video? Don't buy it.
It's also pathetic how so many accept that "pointing a gun at a cop" equals a death sentence.
In how many videos, even when armed, have black people shot by police pointed the gun huh?
The Bundy ranch people pointed guns at cops for days and didn't get shot. Black woman holding a baby? Both get shot. Difficult situation, but if the baby also got shot, this wasn't about protecting the baby either.
Black lives DON'T matter
wesleyshark
Banned
Wtf at this thread title lol
I feel like the thread title is borderline click-bait because I was expecting it to be another case of police brutality against black people (mother doing nothing bad, officer gets riled over nothing, shoots mother etc).
I guess the reason I think this, though, just proves how sad things have become with it being pretty much a daily occurrence.
EDIT: I guess I'm not alone, didn't even read beyond the OP.
I guess the reason I think this, though, just proves how sad things have become with it being pretty much a daily occurrence.
EDIT: I guess I'm not alone, didn't even read beyond the OP.
Terrible story but:
A) I am glad the child is alive, phew.
B) The police do a lot of dastardly things but it really doesn't sound like this is one of them. The woman seems very unstable, frankly, and if you are aiming a gun at a police officer (or anyone else who also has a gun, for that matter), it's not going to end well for one of you.
Regardless it's another sad and potentially avoidable gun death in the US. Nobody needs this.
A) I am glad the child is alive, phew.
B) The police do a lot of dastardly things but it really doesn't sound like this is one of them. The woman seems very unstable, frankly, and if you are aiming a gun at a police officer (or anyone else who also has a gun, for that matter), it's not going to end well for one of you.
Regardless it's another sad and potentially avoidable gun death in the US. Nobody needs this.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Using your kid as a meat shield in police "negotiations" doesn't garner any sympathy points from me, reading the title I'm thinking they snipped the kid in a crib from the next room.
Huh? You got proof of that for I must have missed it if true?
Wow, reading the thread title gave me a much different perception of what happened and I entered the thread already pissed off. After reading it, while certainly a sad story, it doesn't sound like she left the officers much of a choice especially since they waited it out for 6 hours while she used her son as a body shield to keep from going to jail.
That's sickening that a parent would do something like that to their own child. She put her child's life in danger for selfish reasons.
That's sickening that a parent would do something like that to their own child. She put her child's life in danger for selfish reasons.
I don't know about physically using him as a shield, but she had hours to release him so he could be taken somewhere safe, and instead chose to keep him there with her.
Wait, so outside of using her kid as a shield, she is also using him as a scout?
That's fucked up.
akilshohen
Member
According to her friends, apparently she posted a lot about Police abuse in the city on Facebook. So some are factoring that into the incident.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I'm not going to comment on the rest of what you said because, like in every case, we weren't there and have no idea what the details of what happened were.
But
Pointing a gun at a cop in a situation such as this will get you killed no matter what you are. If you're a bunny rabbit you'll get shot.
Sounds tragic all around and obviously if she fires the police are left little option. It's a pity the offices couldn't disengage entirely and drop the situation to a negotiation without risk of being shot but perhaps that wasn't possible.
Sounds like the mother was desperate about being served the warrants.
Pity she had a gun. If unarmed it would have been a very different situation for the police to be able to restrain her and remove her from the property if needed.
Sounds like the mother was desperate about being served the warrants.
Pity she had a gun. If unarmed it would have been a very different situation for the police to be able to restrain her and remove her from the property if needed.
MWS Natural
Member
Does the "let's wait for all the facts 1st" crew only show up when the individual is white?
tkscz
Member
I would factor that into her reaction, but not the reason for her getting shot after six hours. If they immediately shot her, this would be different. I'd feel there was a LOT more we aren't being told, but six hours? At that point I feel they actually tried to calm her down and take it easy. Maybe she was scared considering police relations with minorities. I can understand that, but after the first two hours, I'd start to think maybe I'm the one over reacting here. And at no point, AT NO POINT, should she had been holding her son.
As for the videos being posted, so far, they prove nothing. In fact, it proves it was a stand still. And the five year old boy, I'm glad he's ok and I feel bad for everything he had to go through, but his word isn't very believable when it's not difficult to tell a child what to say. Especially after what just happened to him.
They can not do that in this situation. Once the weapon was drawn and the child taken, you forced their hand and for good reason. You can't have them running off and possibly having them shoot at other people or deciding to murder/Suicide with the kid. That's standard procedure across the globe.
Krappadizzle
Member
boiled goose
good with gravy
In the very same post I gave an example when this didn't happen.
The fact that our standard for state sanctioned violence is so low doesn't mean it's remotely acceptable.
Scenarios like this make it clear what the purpose of the police is. It's enforcement not safety. What was the initial goal of the police here? Arrest. What was the result? Death. The police would rather murder you and shoot your child than wait longer.
Black lives DONT matter.
The result in practice is not standard procedure across the globe. Clearly, the safety of the child was not the focus of police here...
What? Several people have posted that they were waiting for more evidence before forming an opinion. If anything the opposite is true here. There are no posters insinuating that the people waiting for more facts in this case are closet racists.
I mean, it's easily in the top 5 of the dumbest things anyone can do right now on planet earth.
boiled goose
good with gravy
No. What you see is the opposite. People accepting the police narrative without question.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I don't disagree that it's incredibly dumb.
It's typically something you do when completely desperate, not thinking rationally.
There is that too. I mean there are some things we can point to that aren't disputed. She was in a standoff with police for hours, and she never let her child go to be taken somewhere safe in all that time.
I still really want to know if the police had body cameras on them. It's Baltimore, they should have had them.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Not only do I not trust the cops' story due to prior experience, but I have a very bad feeling about how they handled the end of this.
And straight up, I don't think it would have ended this way with a white mother and child.
And straight up, I don't think it would have ended this way with a white mother and child.
Yes, please leave a child alone with a mother using him as a shield while brandishing a gun. Or since you're saying surrounding an armed assailant isn't standard procedure to contain the situation to prevent it from spilling into a more public area.
Clearly, that isn't standard procedure.
.........
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Not the same type of situation, if you take out that part of my post then yeah, your point makes sense.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yes. Dont leave the child with a gun wielding mother let's instead shoot the child.
When the purpose of police is enforcement not safety... the outcome makes sense.
If safety and containment was the goal, they would have done that. They have to enforce though. After six hours patience runs thin.
A tragic situation, one where if you just look at the facts as presented you can't really blame the officers involved for the ending.
Thinking about the context of the situation though, the warrants for her arrest, and some of the things my friends have gone through when it comes to the criminal justice system... the way the police and courts target poor and black people with petty fines and hard to meet scheduling requirements and disproportionate bail fees...
It's easy to see a situation where a young mother, whose life had spun out of control because of a few traffic incidents, felt she had no other choice.
She essentially died because of crimes that, individually, would have been easy for someone like me to take care of. I get paid time off to go plead not-guilty at the local magistrate court. A deposit on my plea is no big deal since I am paid well. I can show up to my court date with little worry over losing my job or losing much needed money.
I'm sure that this situation could have been easily avoided if the court and criminal justice system weren't tuned specifically to fuck over people like her.
Instead, she was put in a seemingly (to her) intractable situation. And the cops were forced into that situation as well.
RIP
We need criminal justice reform in this country ASAP.
Not a single doubt in my mind.
Thinking about the context of the situation though, the warrants for her arrest, and some of the things my friends have gone through when it comes to the criminal justice system... the way the police and courts target poor and black people with petty fines and hard to meet scheduling requirements and disproportionate bail fees...
It's easy to see a situation where a young mother, whose life had spun out of control because of a few traffic incidents, felt she had no other choice.
She essentially died because of crimes that, individually, would have been easy for someone like me to take care of. I get paid time off to go plead not-guilty at the local magistrate court. A deposit on my plea is no big deal since I am paid well. I can show up to my court date with little worry over losing my job or losing much needed money.
I'm sure that this situation could have been easily avoided if the court and criminal justice system weren't tuned specifically to fuck over people like her.
Instead, she was put in a seemingly (to her) intractable situation. And the cops were forced into that situation as well.
RIP
We need criminal justice reform in this country ASAP.
Not a single doubt in my mind.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
I don't know. I just asked if you had any other information others than what was given.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Agree almost entirely.
Omegasquash
Member
Well put. Doubly so on Kid Kamikaze10's statement.
Earthstrike
Member
America has institutional racism to the point where there may always be a relationship.
Remember ferguson where the police were giving out a bunch of bullshit citations to raise money for the white parts of town? How do we know a similar or toned down version of the same thing isn't going on here. To the point where you are statistically bound to have an escalation.
Edit: it's also worth pointing out that when white men with guns who openly advocate killing government officials take over government compounts, negotiations last over days and even weeks. How long did law enforcement negotiatie with the mother in this case? One hour.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
One, I doubt you have a clue about "standard procedure" around the globe.
Two, I'm not talking about them running away. I'm talking about backing away and entering negotiation with trained negotiators. There seems no indication she would hurt the child and such a process would likely have reduced chances of him being hurt.
Ultimately what would be best would be a situation where she wasn't armed.
... Then without knowing the info, no one can say nor claim that she used her own child as a shield.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. If anyone has a gun in one hand an essentially a hostage there is no 100% certainty that they wouldn't shoot said hostage. I don't care if its her son, mothers are capable of killing their children.
She didn't out down the gun so they shot her, but I suppose most of you in this thread would be happier to read mother shoots son in head and then gets shot by police.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Nobody would, don't be silly.
Ordinaryundone
Member
Nah, you don't go full Alamo over some unpaid traffic tickets. Not unless you have something much worse in the picture that you can't go to court over. Especially if you are going to involve your own kid as a hostage/bargaining chip.
The instances of murder/suicide especially during the recession really opened my eyes to the fact that sometimes people think that death for them and their loved ones is preferable to whatever the given alternative is. It's a stretch to say that's the case here, but I can understand that fear of her doing that.
During a six hour negotiation. At some point someone decided that the posturing through six hours switched from just that to legitimate threat to life evidenced in opening fire. I'd like to know why.
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