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Bloodborne's Frame Pacing still isn't fixed, it never will be, and that sucks

Grief.exe

Member
As others have said, a PC release doesn't guarantee a fix for those issues. Has anyone figured out how to make the PC port of FFXIII run consistently yet?

Not to be a downer, I'm looking forward to Dark Souls III on PC as well. Just trying to keep the worst case scenario in mind.

Square and Koei are outliers in their ignorance, From showed complete improvement from Dark Souls 1 to 2. I'd imagine any future From port will continue to improve.

Having huge performance overhead and variable vsync options should help with the frame pwcng issues. The XIII ports are good examples of worst case scenario.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There have been several comments to the effect of “this hasn't effected my play.” Not just that the problem is unnoticeable for a certain person, but that it doesn't effect their actual gameplay experience. I want to make it very clear that this isn't the case.

Bad frame pacing causes frames to be displayed for uneven amounts of time. This means that, for example, your window to react to a given enemy attack will often be shifting, albeit in small intervals that are all but unnoticeable for most people. But have you ever felt an attack hit you earlier than it should have, or later, even if only slightly? Ever thought that the game responded to your input more slowly than usual? The small discrepancies bad frame pacing causes add up. This is a serious issue in a tight action game. And of course it's a factor outside of action as well, making for a weird, choppy feeling experience even during light exploration.

I totally understand not noticing this on a conscious level, I've definitely experienced the “blurring out” effect where it eventually fades from my notice as I play, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. It does effect your gameplay experience, even if you don't know it.
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This is especially true during the MP.
 
I played it again today for the first time in months, to get back to where the DLC opens up (as I finished the game and got into NG+). The frame pacing issue seems worse now than before and it really stands out now. Probably subjectively worse and not actually worse.
 
I played it again today for the first time in months, to get back to where the DLC opens up (as I finished the game and got into NG+). The frame pacing issue seems worse now than before and it really stands out now. Probably subjectively worse and not actually worse.

Your assumption about the problem being subjectively worse is likely totally correct, but I absolutely know the feeling. This was my experience coming back to the game after a long break, and I think it's going to be common when The Old Hunters releases. It's not fun.
 

Lingitiz

Member
Was it ever explicitly stated that's why Sony Japan was involved? Beyond the generic "We're going to ensure they used the power of the PS4 blah blah blah" PR stuff that we always hear.

I'm guessing Sony was mostly just providing them with more raw workforce. From Software still called the shots on the creative and technical side.

Yeah probably. They needed game the turned around as fast as possible, and having Sony Japan provide support is an easy way to do that.

They wanted to evoke Demons Souls and that 'legendary' collaboration in their PR.

Which is funny considering Dark Souls 1 is arguably a better game.
 
I really don't understand why people take this so seriously. It's an amazing game and has been an amazing game since March 17. Get off your high horses.

How about no?

Great, you don't notice it, but we do and it sucks. On top of that, the game is capped at 30fps (problem #1), drops often, and drops even more in multiplayer. This is a fast fucking game where reaction speed is incredibly important, pretty much in-game life or death. Uneven performance, no matter what it is, is frankly unacceptable.

This is also not isolated in the slightest. Demon's, Dark, Dark 2, BB, they all have big performance problems, problems that get in the way of playing the game. BB is just the latest in the line, and you'd think being on a straightforward platform like PS4, there wouldn't be any. And yet...

This game has legitimate technical issues, issues that with that you want us to ignore, in a product that we paid for. But of course, fuck us whiners, the game is awesome!!!! Very few games have pacing problems, and when they are discovered, they are usually patched.

From has not fixed it, and guess what? This problem could carry over to the PS4 version of Dark Souls 3. But fuck people who are sensitive to the issue who buy the game for $60 come March 2016, expecting it to properly work, amirite?

Not noticing is one thing, but excusing that shit is another.

There have been several comments to the effect of “this hasn't effected my play.” Not just that the problem is unnoticeable for a certain person, but that it doesn't effect their actual gameplay experience. I want to make it very clear that this isn't the case.

Bad frame pacing causes frames to be displayed for uneven amounts of time. This means that, for example, your window to react to a given enemy attack will often be shifting, albeit in small intervals that are all but unnoticeable for most people. But have you ever felt an attack hit you earlier than it should have, or later, even if only slightly? Ever thought that the game responded to your input more slowly than usual? The small discrepancies bad frame pacing causes add up. This is a serious issue in a tight action game. And of course it's a factor outside of action as well, making for a weird, choppy feeling experience even during light exploration.

I totally understand not noticing this on a conscious level, I've definitely experienced the “blurring out” effect where it eventually fades from my notice as I play, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. It does effect your gameplay experience, even if you don't know it.

This is a great idea, and I was considering just putting it in the OP, but openly asking for a twitter campaign isn't kosher on GAF. I think that, especially with this issue still likely being present in Dark Souls III, there's a great opportunity for a message to be sent that this issue needs to be dealt with. It's definitely in From's best interest too, this isn't just their present we're talking about, it's their future.

Thank you.
 
At this point I'm guessing it's a deep low-level engine issue that is so entrenched in the code's most core architecture that they can't just patch it out. It's probably the kind of thing that would require a major engine rewrite that would break so many things in the game that fixing all of it would just take entirely way too much time to be considerable.
 
It honestly hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game in the slightest.

Ditto

To be clear, I totally know it's there, but it does not affect my enjoyment of the game as is. I quickly un-notice it as soon as notice it.
OG Dark Souls framerate issues were substantially worse... Or Dark Souls 2 horrid analog deadzones.
 
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I started a new character today in preparation for the DLC, and it was pretty jarring for a while until I got used to it again. I can't stop thinking about how amazing the game would look at 60 fps with no CA and cleaned up aliasing. Maybe in 10-15 years we'll be able to emulate it.
 
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I started a new character today in preparation for the DLC, and it was pretty jarring for a while until I got used to it again. I can't stop thinking about how amazing the game would look at 60 fps with no CA and cleaned up aliasing. Maybe in 10-15 years we'll be able to emulate it.
May as well just play Souls 3 at that point.
 
I platinumed the game a while ago and started to play again because of the dlc. Everytime I start sprinting, I feel like there is a slowdown. What is happening to me?
 

Kieli

Member
I have no idea what frame-pacing is, and I hope I never will in case my understanding of it negatively affects my enjoyment of the game.

Kind of like how I never knew what screen-tearing was, but when someone pointed it out to me, I now cannot unsee it in games. Bliss is ignorance.
 

myco666

Member
I didn't really have problems with the frame pacing even if I notice it. Game is just so good that I look past it. Shame that there are people who can't enjoy BB because of it.

I won't continue to support devs that either don't give a shit or can't fix their issues. Have fun pretending there aren't plenty of other games out there.

Have fun pretending there are any other games like this one. There really isn't any game that is even remotely close to this one.
 

Man

Member
Have anyone actually ever delivered the message to the developers?
Have they acknowledged the frame-pacing issue?
 

UrbanRats

Member
It's really annoying, though not as bad as the terrible inputlag given by the 30fps.
In many games it wouldn't be that much of a deal, but in a game based entirely around using iframes to dodge attacks that can even 1 shot you, it's a pretty big deal, and a real shame, that such a great game has to be plagued by this shit.

I gave up hoping for them to fix this though (not that i ever hoped they would up the framerate, lol) and i'll just wait for Dark3 on PC.

Dark Souls 2 may not have been a looker, but it played like goddamn butter after all (nevermind the agility-iframes snafu).

But hey, at least i'll get to play Dragon's Dogma in a decent state, next year.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
If you guys are going to start a twitter campaign about anything, please consider making it about CA.
 

EthanC

Banned
Went back to the game the other day in preparation for the expansion and immediately was reminded of why I stopped playing the game. Won't be buying the expansion until this very real problem is fixed, nor will I be buying Dark Souls 3 if the same problem exists there upon release. There's plenty of other games to play if From continues to not give a shit about this.
 

ISee

Member
Played through Bloodborne, hell even platinumed it (as have many others, so that's not very special I guess). It's there no doubt about it. Was it playable? Yes but people consider even worse stuff (like AC:Unitys performance) to be playable so...

Should it be fixed? Of course. But what really bothers me that DS3 seem to have the very same problem. There is no excuse for that!

I also wonder if the PC version is going to have the same problem. DS2 on PC was an improvement over DS1, even an improvement over the console version(s). But a gut feeling tells me to wait before buying DS3.
 

omonimo

Banned
Still I don't understand why they haven't fixed it yet. It's really absurd. But I have the big suspect it's because they are totally incompetent to fix it. That's sad see a such talented company so limited in the tech stuff.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I have no idea what frame-pacing is, and I hope I never will in case my understanding of it negatively affects my enjoyment of the game.

Kind of like how I never knew what screen-tearing was, but when someone pointed it out to me, I now cannot unsee it in games. Bliss is ignorance.

I wish I could go back.
 

UrbanRats

Member
There is no need for single frame response in this game and chromatic aberration is subjective.

Aren't you the one who excuses actual huge issues in Assassin's Creed? If so wow is this funny. :D
Yeah, there is no need for accurate and fast input reaction, in a game centered around dodging with iframes, attacks that very easily one or two shot you!
Next i expect someone to bring out the "git gud" argument.


For the record, i vehemently shat on Assassin's Creed Unity for the same reason, since they tried to introduce a more punishing combat, but didn't fix the atrocious input lag (sometimes as bad as half a second, at 30 fps, and the game rarely held that framerate).
But hey, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
 
I'm usually bothered by low framerate and screen tearing, but this? No fucks given. I feel sorry for those of you who can't enjoy the game because of it.
 

Berrigal

Neo Member
I picked up BB a week ago and played through it, and I don't even know what people are complaining about. I didn't notice any technical issues at all. I'm sure they're there, but it was either so small that I didn't notice or the game is so good that I never conciously realised anything was wrong.
 

BeeDog

Member
Did the latest patch bring any installation issue as well? In preparation of the DLC, I reinstalled the game and downloaded the 9GB patch. When booting up the game to try some of the new additions, I simply get a "Game install incomplete, cannot load save data" error all the time.

Is the game actually still installing in the background, or is this some error? I really don't want to redownload the patch, if necessary.
 

CyberChulo

Member
No problems here either. Played it completion on two different tvs and a monitor at work with no issues that I could see. I'm 40 years old. Maybe it's because I don't give a fuck about things like that anymore. All I know is that when I boot up the game, it loads with no problems. I can kill with no problems. Home theater surround sound is in effect. Am I enjoying the game? Fuck yes!
 

Mendrox

Member
Never noticed this and I speedrun Bloodborne. Glad that I am not sensitive to such bullshit.

It saddens me to read that people won't play this game because of this. How do you notice this? I never had the feeling that I got hit unfair or anything like that. Well and I don't give a shit about CA. Bloodborne is way more playable than Dark Souls 1+2 back then lol.
 

UrbanRats

Member
But the other ones have the same issues, which went largely unnoticed by the public until Bloodborne because Digital Foundry became a thing.

Every other game in the series but Demon and BB is available on other platforms though, which limit the relevance of said issues.
Which is probably why many "ignored" them.
 
It honestly hasn't affected my enjoyment of the game in the slightest.
Yuuuup.

My GOTY regardless. Bring on the Old Hunters!

I'd prefer it to be fixed, but it honestly hasn't impacted me at all. Bummer, but not really.

People who let the frame rate/pacing of this game keep them from playing are really missing out.
 
It's been a while since I played it, but my memory of the game is in no way tainted by the issues mentioned in the OP. It's a From game so it's never going to be a technical heavyweight.
 

dan2026

Member
I find it so bizarre how people cannot notice this or say it isn't there.

I CAN look past the frame pacing to some extent, but it pretty jarring and obvious.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I find it so bizarre how people cannot notice this or say it isn't there.

I CAN look past the frame pacing to some extent, but it pretty jarring and obvious.

Apparently some people didn't even notice the frame drops it FO4, and some can't even tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, so i'm not sure i can relate to that.
 

Mupod

Member
as someone primarily PC-focused who also loved Bloodborne - I absolutely cannot understand how someone can be super nitpicky over things like frame pacing and vsync and still stand to play games on consoles. How can you care about stuff like this when you don't seem to mind games running at 30 fps and crap resolutions with no AA or AF? Why even own a console if you're that fixated on minor graphical issues?
 
I won't continue to support devs that either don't give a shit or can't fix their issues. Have fun pretending there aren't plenty of other games out there.

Enjoy missing out on one of the greatest games this generations. The great thing is, companies will continue to make games with these issues regardless is buy or not.

The only person who loses out is you because you don't get to play the game
 

UrbanRats

Member
as someone primarily PC-focused who also loved Bloodborne - I absolutely cannot understand how someone can be super nitpicky over things like frame pacing and vsync and still stand to play games on consoles. How can you care about stuff like this when you don't seem to mind games running at 30 fps and crap resolutions with no AA or AF? Why even own a console if you're that fixated on minor graphical issues?

1) Console exclusives.
2) Games are still good, despite these problems.
3) IQ issues are one thing, but framerate problems in general can impact gameplay.
 
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