lukeskymac
Member
In what way is "KotOR II is much better" equal to "KotOR was shit?"
Edit:
You can't fix a misrepresentation of a quote by misrepresenting another one. But thanks for helping perpetuate the stereotype of BioWare fans.
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Casey Hudson leaves BioWare
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
In what way is "KotOR II is much better" equal to "KotOR was shit?"
Edit:
You can't fix a misrepresentation of a quote by misrepresenting another one. But thanks for helping perpetuate the stereotype of BioWare fans.
There are people who have left BioWare and went to other studios. Most notably George Zoeller and Kevin Martens out of the people who were there early on.
Otherwise BioWare has had pretty good retention of their early staff.
I'm not sure if I've heard of a notably senior staffer actually leaving and coming back to the studio, perhaps in part since there weren't that many that actually went out the door to start.
And blind hype/knee-jerk celebration is just as useless. We could do with a lot less extremes.
Freezasaurus
Member
Psh. It's not even true. I had more fun with the original. And while KOTOR II was certainly good, there were parts of the game left unfinished due to time constraints. The romance sub-plots, for example.
They're different enough tonally that there's plenty of space to prefer one or the other, and not everyone is willing to give 2's very unpolished release a complete pass.
lukeskymac
Member
Seriously? Is that the first thing that came to your mind?
Reminds me of the Fallout 3 vs. Fallout: New Vegas (winner) debate.
spookyfish
Member
lukeskymac
Member
Can't I pretend that my opinion is the absolute truth like everyone else does?
Yep, just like the people leaving Naughty Dog meant they weren't going to be making games anymore.
ArkkAngel007
Member
On PC I think some of the incomplete content was modded in by some of the devs, so many are probably coming at it after experiencing the more complete port.
Obsidian does seem to get a huge pass quality-wise on GAF. They tend to have good concepts and better writing in comparison to their peers, but their games are also full of jank and terrible technical issues that can't just be written off as rushed productions.
anexanhume
Member
I remember Chris L'Etoile leaving. He actually had very technical discussions with members on the old bioware forums. Granted I know he wasn't an original member, he was an important part of the ME team.
Yes, he went to work on Dawngate at EA's Waystone studio.
I'm guessing he wanted to live in San Francisco.
That's actually why BioWare Montreal exists. Yanick Roy and some others wanted to move to Montreal instead of Edmonton so they set up a new studio there.
I guess when I think of "old BioWare" I think more like the pre-Mass Effect era, but 2004-2007 was quite a long time ago.
Purple Cheeto
Member
So did he join Riot yet?
lukeskymac
Member
KotOR II was given 12 months by LucasArts, then halfway through that was cut to 8. They then refused to let Obsidian patch the stuff post-release.
New Vegas had 12 months and was deducted a large bonus for missing its MT score by 1, when most of the complaints were related to the shit engine they had to use, because Yay Bethesda!
None of this absolves them completely, but it's really obvious they are dicked around a lot for being freelancers.
KotOR 2 is a really well-written game.
It also doesn't feel much like Star Wars. A big part of the appeal of the original KotOR was how it felt like a Star Wars movie. KotOR 2 feels like a re-imagining of Star Wars through a much more cynical lens.
I feel like that one image that compares Malak "the Saturday morning cartoon villain" to Sion "a serious threat" misses that Sion's dialogue, while more intimidating, doesn't match the tone set by the Star Wars movies at all. It's understandable why some people would prefer the more stereotypical elements of the first game instead.
apollo1444
Neo Member
newbie here, never really posted only read, sad to see all this talented people leave gaming
Ken Levine
Blezinski
not really left gaming per se but now are working on much more smaller tittles
add Casey to the list, I hope he announces something in the future
Ken Levine
Blezinski
not really left gaming per se but now are working on much more smaller tittles
add Casey to the list, I hope he announces something in the future
Freezasaurus
Member
This was especially true for Fallout: New Vegas. The plot and everything were plenty enjoyable, but when the game launched, it was such a fucking technical disaster that Bethesda had to be called in to fix it. Probably since they were more familiar with the game engine.
ArkkAngel007
Member
They are and I don't want to make it out that they are fully incompetent and pubs have no part in the issues.
But it just seems odd how readily people trash quality games for the most minor rendering issues, but I swear are the same who hold Obsidian games on a pedestal above everything else
Derrick was one I believe
I actually have Dungeon Siege III sitting somewhere around here that my sister-in-law bought for my wife last year. Didn't look great by any means when I saw her try it out, but maybe I need to play it myself to get it.
Anyway, I'm getting too Off Topic here.
pantsonhead
Member
Basically this. The only crumb of comfort I have in all this is that he never worked on Dragon Age, letting me wallow in my denial that Inquisition might be a good game a little bit longer.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Lets be honest here it is not just Obsidian that gets a pass on these issues. Bethesda got off pretty easy with the state Skyrim PS3 was released in. Fallout 3 was also the most crash prone game I have ever played on the PC and had a host of other issues. Really if anything I say Obsidian is more harshly judged on their issues then Bethesda is.
lukeskymac
Member
Probably because those game have lots more money thrown at them. Obsidian's kind of an underdog, and some people tend to root for underdogs.
Derrick did go too far, though.
Wasn't the story that Hudson basically made the call to rush the ending by excluding all other writers and working with Walters? The post mortem gave the impression that they were really short on time and couldn't develop a proper ME3 ending and still release in the fiscal year EA wanted that title.
apollo1444
Neo Member
a legend in videogames practically quits gaming and people are talking about obsidian games?
pff
pff
Last Hearth
Member
I can always count on a Obsidian fanboy somewhere to clog up a every Bioware thread with attempts to prop up a dud like KOTOR2.
ArkkAngel007
Member
I think it was something brought up by Geoff Keighly in one of, if not his first, "Final Hours of [ ]" write-ups on Mass Effect 3.
I don't own a copy to be able to speak on any authority on it though.
I also remember how supposedly
Drew K's direction would have involved dark matter and was going to focus heavily in the Geth/Quarian conflict. This was hinted at especially in Mass Effect 2 and I believe the first novel. This was dropped in the surrounding circumstances of his departure from the studio for the 'Starchild' and generic conflict found in ME3 that is oft connected to Mac Walters. The plot notes found within the files of the ME3 multiplayer beta also suggested that the Promethean featured heavily in the primary game, had Kai Leng in a more realistic and impactful interaction throughout the game that tied to the Virmire survivors attitude in the game towards Shepard, and for there to be a major choice to be made in a very depressing and desperate scene following the boss battle on the Asari home world
lukeskymac
Member
lukeskymac
Member
Being an asshole about your opinion doesn't make it any more factual
or any less stupid
He was the captain of the ship. It was a great voyage for most of the trip, until he hit that iceburg at the end. Tell me, would the trip up to that point be remembered?
The ending for ME3 wasn't a small thing here, let's not kid ourselves. It's true that if the series wasn't loved because of how well crafted it was up to that point, there wouldn't be a backlash as people wouldn't care. I do wonder how he feels about the whole thing, overall. He crafted a lot of universes that held people's interest a LOT of hours. It's unfortunate it played out as it did, but it was probably his biggest moment to shine, and yeah...
Don't get me wrong, the ME3 ending is also on Hudson. The problem is that Walters fucked up multiple times before the ME3 ending. He sucks as a lead writer.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Aw damn.
He was the captain of the ship. It was a great voyage for most of the trip, until he hit that iceburg at the end. Tell me, would the trip up to that point be remembered?
The ending for ME3 wasn't a small thing here, let's not kid ourselves. It's true that if the series wasn't loved because of how well crafted it was up to that point, there wouldn't be a backlash as people wouldn't care. I do wonder how he feels about the whole thing, overall. He crafted a lot of universes that held people's interest a LOT of hours. It's unfortunate it played out as it did, but it was probably his biggest moment to shine, and yeah...
It was definitely huge even elsewhere. I even heard a story on NPR about it: http://www.onthemedia.org/story/196799-new-endings/
of course, they fucked it up by spoiling RDR by way of example but i'm just saying it got pretty big press
Last Hearth
Member
KOTOR2 was an unfinished buggy mess, that's a fact,
jacksepticeye
Member
KotOR 2 was awesome? Yes.
Mass Effect 3's ending was bad? Yes.
But that doesn't change the fact that Casey created KotOR and it was also amazing, no matter what the sequel does better or worse, and the Mass Effect trilogy was also fantastic. Every game has its flaws or things that could have been done better, but Casey was also responsible for great things that other developers didn't do or failed to do. He will surely be missed.
Mass Effect 3's ending was bad? Yes.
But that doesn't change the fact that Casey created KotOR and it was also amazing, no matter what the sequel does better or worse, and the Mass Effect trilogy was also fantastic. Every game has its flaws or things that could have been done better, but Casey was also responsible for great things that other developers didn't do or failed to do. He will surely be missed.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I played through it twice on the Xbox and never encountered any bugs, guess I got lucky? The rushed ending and cut content were fairly obvious though. The writing and the atmosphere/music were fantastic but I would still but it below the original myself. Kotor drew me in as much as the first time I seen Star Wars.
We're not talking about Walters. Hudson had minimal influence on ME4.
You wouldn't be so bitter about ME3's ending if Casey Hudson didn't make such an amazing series in the first place.
TheOhrenberger.
Banned
You're the reason why people like Cliff call us "cunts." The Mass Effect Trillogy was amazing, and if it weren't for the last 5 minutes of ME3 we wouldn't even need to remind people of that.
First thing that came to mind sadly, the guy can write characters, and he did a fine job on ME1/2, but Casey Hudson and Mac Walters both managed to royally fuck up the ending to ME3. Considering how much build up there was you would have thought the ending would have been set in stone a long time before hand.
Still, they managed to create this wonderful universe we all loved, so they get some credit, it is just such a shame what happened considering the potential.
Casey Hudson said something along the lines of "ME3 wont have just an A, B, C ending" before the game released, they talked a lot about choices impacting the ending. This ended up all being a lie, the ending of ME3 gave you one of three choices, each was colour coded either Blue, Green, or Red, and shared multiple scenes of the ending montage just in different colours, you're choices throughout the series didn't have any effect at all.
The ending regardless of colour choices was also just rather shit, didn't explain much, and just kind of ended with a few scenes of whatever colour and then ended finally with a big pop up saying continue you Mass Effect adventures in future DLC. The Extended Ending added on to this and was less shit, but it still left a sour taste in many peoples mouths after the first two great games, and left Bioware in a bit of a pickle as seen with the new Mass Effect game where they don't want to pick a canon ending to continue past ME3 which means any future game will seemingly be before or during the events of the Shepard Trilogy.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
This is just childish
who gives a crap what cliff call gamers, the truth is hudson ruined the ending on ME3 and pretty much everything you did on the whole trilogy, im glad he's gone, hopefully he will find a job far far away from the gaming industry