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Casper (Mattress Company) Sues Review Sites, Then Buys One To Get Positive Coverage

C

Colonel Mustard

Banned
NimbusD said:
Am I supposed to believe you've tried all of these? lol
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As a matter of fact, yeah, pretty much! I've worked in the bedding industry for around 7 years now, in just about every capacity you could think of, from sales, to marketing, to design.

I have to go to the home show in Vegas once a year for my job and meet with quite a few vendors and hear their pitches and try their products. And I've toured...like 9 plants at this point, from the big ones (Tempur in VA, Sealy in Medina) to the little ones (Comfort Solutions in Cleveland, Old West, Natures Sleep.)
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Any suggestions for a new mattress?
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
It's amazing how fantastically shady every single mattress business is. Makes talk radio commercials seem like documentaries about legitimate products.
 
G

grumble

Member
Colonel Mustard said:
As a matter of fact, yeah, pretty much! I've worked in the bedding industry for around 7 years now, in just about every capacity you could think of, from sales, to marketing, to design.

I have to go to the home show in Vegas once a year for my job and meet with quite a few vendors and hear their pitches and try their products. And I've toured...like 9 plants at this point, from the big ones (Tempur in VA, Sealy in Medina) to the little ones (Comfort Solutions in Cleveland, Old West, Natures Sleep.)
Click to expand...
Challenger.... DEFEATED

Heard the leesa is the best of the bunch though - assuming cost matters, is it a decent option or should people buy an inexpensive spring?
 
P

Poeton

Member
Suikoguy said:
Any suggestions for a new mattress?
Click to expand...

I've had my Purple mattress for about 2 months now and I am pretty happy with it. I think it's design is very creative, it doesn't run hot, and I haven't had a bad night of sleep since I got it. With that being said it is a little firmer than I would normally like but it's pretty comfortable once you settle into it.
 
S

SeanC

Member
Colonel Mustard said:
I have to go to the home show in Vegas once a year for my job and meet with quite a few vendors and hear their pitches and try their products. And I've toured...like 9 plants at this point, from the big ones (Tempur in VA, Sealy in Medina) to the little ones (Comfort Solutions in Cleveland, Old West, Natures Sleep.)
Click to expand...

Huh...

Ok jumping in slightly OT...I want a good mattress and was looking at modestly-priced mattresses, but my girlfriend wants to get a sleepnumber bed or some shit because she likes firm and I like something that doesn't feel like a fucking plank of wood. Suggestions?


Casper's brand is officially dead it seems. There's no coming back from this. i hope Stamps.com, Hello Fresh and Squarespace are doing ok.
 
C

Colonel Mustard

Banned
grumble said:
Challenger.... DEFEATED

Heard the leesa is the best of the bunch though - assuming cost matters, is it a decent option or should people buy an inexpensive spring?
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I'd buy an inexpensive spring mattress before an inexpensive foam one. You can get a decent posterpedic set for around $600 if you look hard enough.

SeanC said:
Ok jumping in slightly OT...I want a good mattress and was looking at modestly-priced mattresses, but my girlfriend wants to get a sleepnumber bed or some shit because she likes firm and I like something that doesn't feel like a fucking plank of wood. Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Sleep Number bed have leaky ballasts, it causes the bed's compressor to kick on in the middle of the night. They can also have ridging issues.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Amagon said:
Is Brooklyn mattress any good?
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Got no complaints with ours, a bit more than a year old now. Coming from our old mattress it was like falling asleep on a damn cloud.

I've never heard much bad about Casper, but it seems like rather than improve their product or prices in the face of competition they're just trying to bury their competitors, which certainly doesn't endear them to me.
 
R

Raylan Targaryen

Member
Colonel Mustard said:
A lot of Gaffers have never slept on a Tempurpedic. I have a Cloud Luxe in my master and a 10" Nature's Sleep in my guest and they don't compare.

Though, when you've slept on garbage your entire life, something marginally better probably feels awesome if you don't feel like spending 4 thousand dollars.
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Tempurpedic is so much better than everything else its ridiculous. I get that they’re expensive but I’ve yet to try a better bed, or even one close to as good.
 
T

The Last Wizard

Member
Casper had done this to a site I checked for comparison between the new popular mattress companies. After seeing how they bully sites I swore off them, I’ll go purple instead.
 
N

Nipo

Member
Raylan Targaryen said:
Tempurpedic is so much better than everything else its ridiculous. I get that they’re expensive but I’ve yet to try a better bed, or even one close to as good.
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Yea.. i just priced one out and it is over $8,000 for the mattress and base. That is a little much.
 
F

faisal233

Member
Lavalamp1138 said:
Are they? I've been interested in getting a memory foam mattress and I could have sworn Casper was one of the more highly regarded brands in another GAF thread.
Click to expand...

Go with SleepEZ Roma or Brooklyn Bedding. I have both, prefer SleepEZ slightly more, and they are the best value you are going to find.

The Last Wizard said:
Casper had done this to a site I checked for comparison between the new popular mattress companies. After seeing how they bully sites I swore off them, I'll go purple instead.
Click to expand...

Purple is the same Chinese foam every other mattress in a box company sells. Why do you think so many popped up? Its because they all sell the same foam.

SleepEZ & BB both make their own mattresses.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
GAF sold me on my Casper I think it was worth the 950 for a king.

Thjs some garbage marketing though.
 
S

Steejee

Member
Raylan Targaryen said:
Tempurpedic is so much better than everything else its ridiculous. I get that they’re expensive but I’ve yet to try a better bed, or even one close to as good.
Click to expand...

There's one type I'd rate far higher - natural latex beds.
Upsides to natural latex:
1. Far better for the environment than a memory foam mattress
2. Can last *decades* (vs 10ish years at best for other mattress types). Mold/bugs/etc can't get into the latex itself, so it lasts really well.
3. It's the most comfy bed I've ever had and I had a memory foam one a while back. Been amazing for my back.

The downsides are:
1. Cost - 2-3x the cost of a good Memory Foam mattress depending on where you get it from, we bought from a local factory so pricey, but hey made in america from well sourced material. Synthetic latex is cheaper but worse for environment and has degassing.
2. Weight - These things weigh a tooooon. When we moved I warned the moving guys they couldn't move it alone, they didn't believe me. First guy takes one attempt and then immediately calls over another guy. It's basically like moving a giant rubber slab.
3. High firmness - Well, this is more of a pro for me, we got the extra firm one and it took some adjusting but it's great now. They adjust firmness on latex mattresses just by adjusting the number of layers, but the softest you could buy was the equivalent to a 'firm' anything else. Store just advised us to put some padding on top if it's too firm.

Was always curious how the Caspers were, but after seeing this story I'm glad I never got one.
 
D

DyslexicAlucard

Member
Nipo said:
Casper is good. Leesa is better. That is the conclusion i came away with reading reviews and this article.
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sleepnaught said:
Lol and here I was debating between a Leesa and Casper for my new mattress. Guess that makes my choice easier.
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While not quite on Casper's level, I don't think Leesa comes off looking too hot in the article either:

In a motion to dismiss the case filed in July 2016, Derek blasted what he called Casper's attempt at censorship. The statements on his site were fundamentally his honest opinions: He claimed he had become less enthusiastic about the Casper–which he still called a good mattress–only because equal or better mattresses had entered the market, sometimes at lower prices. (A Casper queen-size runs $950 today, a Leesa queen $940; Derek's site also offered coupons that lowered the Leesa's price.)
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According to the website analysis tool SimilarWeb, Derek referred 1.6 million visits to outside sites between February 2016 and July 2017. Much of this traffic went to Amazon.com (when Derek lacked a direct affiliate relationship, he was able to get at least some money as an affiliate of Amazon). A significant portion went to the mattress companies Purple, Loom & Leaf, and Nest Bedding.

A Loom & Leaf executive told me they had paid Derek $100,000 in 2016; Nest Bedding's CEO Joe Alexander said he had paid Derek a multiple of that. ”My life changed because of Derek," Alexander told me. ”He made me a millionaire."

But by far the most traffic during that period–some 400,000 visits–was referred out to the website of Derek's favorite mattress company, Leesa.

Derek's Leesa favoritism was no secret: he explicitly called it ”Sleepopolis's favorite mattress," and a sidebar touting Leesa affiliate-link coupons graced nearly every page of the site. Mattress reviewers say their art entails recommending different mattresses to different types of sleepers, but in the 14 categories on his site for which the Leesa was eligible, Derek declared it first in seven of them, second or third in all but two of the rest. The Leesa was Sleepopolis's best mattress for side sleepers, best mattress for kids, best mattress for back pain, and best mattress for sex.

It was possible that Derek genuinely loved the Leesa above all other mattresses; he'd reviewed it favorably even before Casper cut off his payments. But many people I spoke to suggested that other things were possible, too. If most mattress companies paid around $50 per commission, other companies paid two or three times that, even as much as $250. In one email I saw, an unscrupulous mattress reviewer said companies regularly approached him offering to ”buy" top placement on his site; so long as the reviewer liked the mattress, he'd happily negotiate a price. ”Honestly, the FTC has to step in at some point and make review sites divulge what they are paid for each bed or brand," Nest Bedding's Joe Alexander, told me. ”This industry is a freight train out of control."

Was Leesa playing this highest-bidder game with Sleepopolis? At first, I heard many rumors to that effect. I called Leesa's CEO David Wolfe in February, in an effort to find out. The middle-aged Wolfe, though now a resident in Virginia Beach, retained a charming British accent, and was a former marketer himself. The mattress industry has long been attractive to marketers, I learned, even before the internet got involved. As a mattress industry analyst recently told Freakonomics Radio: ”You have to be a strong marketer to be in the mattress industry, because they're really selling identical, rectangular slabs."

Wolfe denied offering higher affiliate rates than competitors, saying he had always paid $50 per mattress, apart from one month when he had paid 60. He later repeated this assertion and had his lawyer call me to confirm it, and said he felt it was important for mattress companies and affiliates to operate on a level playing field.

I asked Wolfe if he had ever offered Derek Hales a guaranteed income. Our friendly conversation took a swift turn. ”The answer is no," he said, adding, ”You should leave this to the attorneys." Later, he added, ”I don't want to say something that could affect a pending lawsuit where Leesa is not a party."

SimilarWeb suggested that Derek referred 400,000 visits to Leesa.com between February 2016 and July 2017. If you assumed that about one in 12 referred visits ultimately led to a purchase—a conservative estimate according to people in the mattress industry I interviewed—that would suggest Sleepopolis helped sell 33,000 mattresses. Even a $50 commission per mattress meant $1.6 million paid by Leesa to Derek over those 18 months. When I approached Leesa's David Wolfe with these numbers, he called them inflated (SimilarWeb provides only estimates), but conceded that Derek was essentially Leesa's top salesman, accounting for 18% of the brand's total sales, which reached about $80 million last year.

All told, these numbers suggested Derek may have been making as much as $2 million per year by 2016. And his site, in a hypothetical sale, would be worth a multiple of that. (A considerably less trafficked mattress-reviewing site recently went on the market for $1.4 million.)

Derek had made millionaires among the new mattress entrepreneurs–and he himself was one of them. So while Derek's pockets weren't nearly so deep as Casper's, they certainly weren't shallow. He had stumbled into what was, outside of financial products, one of the more lucrative niches in affiliate marketing. If this was a David-and-Goliath battle, it was worth remembering that David became a king.
Click to expand...

In February, Derek Hales faced a new salvo: A letter from Casper's attorney to the judge alleged that while Derek was reviewing Leesa's mattresses enthusiastically, he was not only receiving affiliate commissions but also payments for SEO consulting he provided Leesa. Reading this, I suddenly understood David Wolfe's skittishness about the last questions I had put to him over the phone.
Click to expand...

The last quote's payment is allegedly $40k. While not exactly big bucks in the scheme of the millions he was already making, it's still not right to do work for a company you are ostensibly reviewing in an "objective" manner.

Colonel Mustard said:
Those rolled/boxed foam mattresses from Casper, Purple, GhostBed, Nature's Sleep, etc... are all garbage.



Just buy a Tempurpedic.
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"I wasn't really satisfied by my Chevy Cavalier."

"Just buy a BMW."

;)
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
My Casper is holding up well and their customer service was really good at least a couple of years ago when I got it. I probably wouldn't buy another though. I miss the bounce.
 
K

Karkador

Banned
You'd be surprised at how many industries do exactly this kind of shady internet marketing and paid reviews. The internet is a fucking maelstrom of lies.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
Flux said:
Their mattresses are absolute trash for anyone wondering.
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Username1198 said:
Can second this.

It’s a pos for sure. Can’t believe I spent 900$ on it
Click to expand...

Lol, nah sorry. Calling it trash is a bit silly, you might not like it and that is cool but we have loved ours since we got it a few years back. I think the big problem is people buy into dumb hype...shocker!

What kills me about this type of commentary though, why didn't you guys return it? They will straight up pick that shit up for free and do a full refund.

jwk94 said:
I thought Casper was good?
Click to expand...

It is just as good as any of the others out there. Its memory foam, its firm, fairly cheap, and easy to get with solid CS. If that isn't your bag, cool.
 
B

blugbox

Neo Member
My wife and I were looking for a new mattress, and we ended up getting a basic sleep number queen for like $499 from one of their mall locations. We've had it for over two years now and it has been great. No leaks or anything like that, and when you adjust the pressure, it changes fast. Pressuring up kicks in the little compressor but it hardly even audible. Like any noise at all will drown it out. Pressuring down is totally silent. The range of settings can take it to extremes either way. Like from super deflated soft to rock hard slate haha. Also for note, I absolutely cannot sleep on those dumb inflatable mattresses for camping and whatnot... It's nothing like those. We wouldn't have shelled out the money if it wasn't such a good deal, but we've been really happy with it. You could always throw a foam topper on it too I guess if you want that feel.

Congrats GAF... that was pretty much my first review on anything, so I hope it helps someone haha

Just had to add... After posting this, my bottom of page ad was for a mattress haha! Of course right?
 
A

AwakenedCloud

Member
For what it's worth, I enjoy my Leesa mattress. Not a game changer, but I don't have many complaints about it.

But the mattress industry is shady like no one's business. I'm pretty sure I only decided to buy online after all the local mattress salespeople drained away the last of my patience and self respect.
 
M

Macam

Banned
I wouldn’t say Casper mattresses are trash, but they’re definitely not particularly comfortable.

I found it overly stiff and just not particularly comfortable, but their customer service was solid. The guy that picked it up to return it, said it was like the fifth one he picked up that day and that he got a lot of returns.

Their Hullo pillow sucks, though. Like a damn brick.
 
L

louiedog

Member
I've spent about a month on an Ikea foam mattress between an Airbnb rental and a friend's guest bedroom. I'm not sure if they were the same models but I found both to be comfortable. They're like $300-$500 for most with a couple of cheaper thin ones and a $1k option as well. Plus many people can go to an Ikea to try them out. I'd definitely do that before spending 2x-3x as much on one from the Internet even with a long trial period because returning seems like a headache.
 
G

giga

Member
Their practices are crap but the mattress itself is far from trash like some people are saying here. In fact, it's one of the highest rated in owner satisfaction.

96GlAlB.png


http://www.sleeplikethedead.com/bed-mattress-review-home.html
 
Tortfeasor

Tortfeasor

Member
I have the Nest Alexander mattress and love it. I’ve had it for about two years now and it’s amazing. I just ordered pillows from them too and like them. It’s loose foam which I didn’t think I would like but it turns out is pretty comfortable compared to the brick memory foam pillow I used to use. I tried the purple pillow and it was just terrible. I had no idea what it was until I got it from Amazon but it’s basically a block of gummy style material. It reminds me of the splat balls that you throw on the floor or wall and the flatten out and stick. It was really awful.
 
A

Aquavelvaman

Banned
I don't trust any company that advertises on 5 or more of the podcasts I listen to. I guess squarespace is okay but actually I found their servers super slow when I used it.

But I'm not joining any of those underwear subscription services anytime soon.
 
O

Obi

Neo Member
sleepnaught said:
Lol and here I was debating between a Leesa and Casper for my new mattress. Guess that makes my choice easier.
Click to expand...

I was trying to make the same decision until the Sleepopolis junk helped me choose.

I've been real happy with my Lessa mattress. I sleep through the night a lot more often than I used too.
 
G

giga

Member
Also, it's weird how so many people are classifying Casper mattresses in the same category as cheap memory foam ones on Amazon. Casper has just 1.5" of memory foam in its 4" comfort layer. Most memory foam mattresses have like 2.5-3.5" of it. My tuft and needle doesn't even have any memory foam. Memory foam is very different from regular foam. It's softer, retains more heat, and has less bounce.
 
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