charlequin already answered this. But I still say it's because most cops want to eliminate risk before it happens. Problem is, they are supposed to be getting paid to do a job that has risk. Even simple things like detaining people. They always seem to go to the extreme and use harsh measures to negate any and all risk that might come to them. This kind of mentality is easily abused too.
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Cop kills Dog. Owner just a tad more than slightly pissed off.
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charlequin already answered this. But I still say it's because most cops want to eliminate risk before it happens. Problem is, they are supposed to be getting paid to do a job that has risk. Even simple things like detaining people. They always seem to go to the extreme and use harsh measures to negate any and all risk that might come to them. This kind of mentality is easily abused too.
akachan ningen
Member
What does "a tad more than slightly" mean? somewhat? very?
TheSadRanger
Banned
The one thing that I noticed from the vid is that no officer gave any sort of apology, they could have at least said (I'm sorry it happened) even though they themselves didn't shoot the dog.
Can they not do that because it would be some sort of admission of guilt or something or are they just assholes?
Also from the end of the vid the homeowner showed where his dogs corpse was laying, couldn't the owner look for the spent bullet casing on the ground to get some perspective and angle from where the officer was when he shot the dog? That way he could at least maybe tell if the officer was telling the truth or possibly lying and just shot the dog for the fuck of it.
edit:nvm I saw on the facebook page that the owner rented a metal detector to find the shell casings. Looks like the officer fired two shots actually and missed the first time.
Can they not do that because it would be some sort of admission of guilt or something or are they just assholes?
Also from the end of the vid the homeowner showed where his dogs corpse was laying, couldn't the owner look for the spent bullet casing on the ground to get some perspective and angle from where the officer was when he shot the dog? That way he could at least maybe tell if the officer was telling the truth or possibly lying and just shot the dog for the fuck of it.
edit:nvm I saw on the facebook page that the owner rented a metal detector to find the shell casings. Looks like the officer fired two shots actually and missed the first time.
There are many reasons for when police can raid a house without a warrant and it can always result in death of someone. Which is why police always warn about prank or fake 911 calls. Police rush into a house, yard, or building thinking someone needs help and a lot can go wrong.
I know of stories of people calling police on others and calls going wrong. A retired cop buddy of mine tells me that one time he received a 'rape in progress' call and when he and his female partner entered the residence, 3 pitbulls attacked them. They killed 2 of the dogs, injured the third and in the end it was just a fake call. They do not know who called in the 'rape in progress' on that person.
(Not saying this happened here, but an example of a exigent circumstance call gone wrong)
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Wow, their PR department is in for one hell of a ride.
TrueGrime
Member
I should post the vid.
http://fox13now.com/2014/06/27/slc-...-he-will-remain-on-duty-during-investigation/
Officer has not reprimanded in any way and is still on active duty. Chief didn't feel like the death of an animal was enough to warrant any action.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I kind of like how one person on the justice for geist fb page. Pointed out that if you kill a police dog, it's considered a member of law enforcement like a human being. Yet if a cop kills goes into your property and kills your dog than no fucks are given basically.
What supposed exigent circumstances? Again, just because a boy is missing, doesn't mean the whole neighborhood gives up it's 4th amendment rights. There wasnt any exigent circumstances. No one called in a reported the boy in the house, there was no suspect that entered the house, there was nothing except for the officer thinking he can do whatever he wants. If he wanted to search a house, he should have started with the one the boy lived in.
TrueGrime
Member
Actually, a whole neighborhood can lose their 4th amendment right as shown by many examples such as the search for the Marathon Bomber where Police were entering yards and houses. Exigent circumstances give police a lot of freedom as security takes priority over your 4th amendment right. It's the main purpose of that exception to the rule.
Now, regarding this situation. I'm not saying police had exigent circumstance at their hand but they are using that as an excuse which would give them the permission to do what they did. If the story of the officer has proof that there was in fact a exigent circumstance, it was legal for them to enter the yard.
Right? I suppose these people that have this mentality would find it acceptable that every time somebody makes a claim that a child is missing that every single home in that city and surrounding cities be searched without question. But why stop there? How about all men that meet a certain profile, let us say single and age 30-45, be brought in for questioning?
Look, a lost child is obviously a terrible thing to have happen, but people have the right to their privacy and property. The police are expected to find the missing children within the means of the law and without violating the basic rights of citizens.
That may be protocol. It reduces the chance of escalation to have the offender removed from the situation.
THE POLICE DEPT CANT USE EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES AS AN EXCUSE IF IT DOESN'T EXIST.
THERE IS NO PROOF OF EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES.
THERE IS ONLY PROOF OF INCOMPETENCE BECAUSE THE BOY WAS SLEEPING IN HIS GODAM BASEMENT.
Exigent circumstance can be used even if it doesn't exist after the fact. Although their use here seems really broad, the call or report if serious enough can be used as an exigent circumstance itself. (I'm not sure how exigent a missing child report could be in this instance to warrant a search of a neighbor's yard) But, in the video one of the officers has the report for the missing child which led to the officer to search that home.
A call, such as a swatting calls, can be made and police can enter your home on exigent circumstances. It doesn't matter if the call was a hoax afterwards, they were legally justified to enter.
Just because the kid was sleeping in his house doesn't mean the officers were wrong in thinking the kid was missing up to that point. It's not incompetence on the officer's behalf that the missing child was not in fact missing.
TheSadRanger
Banned
This isn't just about searching backyards but also the misappropriation of force as well. Regardless of rather the dog was attacking him or not he officer fired twice and missed once, what if there had been neighbors in the adjacent yard going about their business? The bullet could easily pierce a wooden fence and kill/injure someone on the opposite side.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Finally here is a person that claims they can't fight a dog effectively and need to shoot the thing to save their life. Can we please examine you because in my entire fucking life i've never had an experience with a dog (and i was straight up attacked by a full grown huskey at age 13 - and lived to tell the tale! Must be a fuckin judo master eh??!!) where all i could think was "Good lord I need a gun or i'm going to die!"
It's utter nonsense. nevermind the throat.. grab the leg of ANY breed of dog besides say an irish wolfhound or something ridiculously huge and swing it as hard as humanly possible. The chances that you'll break the arm completely are pretty good. As a normal person walking the street that maybe has an irrational fear of dogs i can see being that terrified of an animal. As a fucking Police Officer?? If that's your stance you're a fucking weakling and a coward.
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And that Jurassic Park T-Rex metaphor is fucking gold. Honestly an eerily perfect comparison. One more reason to show my daughter to movie when she's just a little older.
"Wasn't that awesome babe??!! Now... some life lessons..."
Police Chiefs reaction is astounding. Would love to talk to one of his K9 officers to see what their opinion on the matter is and how they think they would react if their service dog got shot in the fucking head.
Nico_D
Member
So sad. Really heartfelt. I think he got a really good hold of himself considering what had happened, I would've just exploded if someone shot my dog for no reason.
There's some magnificent things in the States but concerning the police, I'm happy I live in Europe. Though our laws do really suck it times - giving a bigger punishment for a financial crime than rape, for example. Or letting murderers go far too easy with about 10 year sentence of which they do only about 5.
There's some magnificent things in the States but concerning the police, I'm happy I live in Europe. Though our laws do really suck it times - giving a bigger punishment for a financial crime than rape, for example. Or letting murderers go far too easy with about 10 year sentence of which they do only about 5.
To counter this. My uncle is a detective for the county where I live and he told me a cop died because a dog mauled him and got him in the throat because he did not draw his gun or tazer or mace thinking the dog wouldn't hurt him. He died in the hospital.
Not saying the cops are justified in doing what they did, and I don't feel like watching a video about that before I go to bed. Just throwing out an example from the other side of the fence.
charlequin
Banned
Sure, if it's serious enough. For exigent circumstances to apply, you need a person in imminent danger, where swift action is necessary to protect them. Any action the police take due to exigent circumstance must be limited in scope to what is appropriate to the exact circumstance, and any action must be justifiable to a "reasonable person." I am doubtful that a report of a missing child, in a situation where not even basic efforts like "look in the child's own house" have been taken, would qualify, especially for something as broad as arbitrarily searching every property that's vaguely nearby.
I've seen a pitbull almost rip away the arm of someone bigger than me, if that's what you are asking. Four adults including the owner tried to get the dog off the guy. Dog got stabbed by a neighbor and forced to retreat. It was euthanized by order of a court within a couple of weeks. (Every dog attack, even some BS claims, I've seen have resulted in court ordered euthanasia)
As a dog owner, I love my dogs. But my life or the life of another human being would take priority if even my own dogs attacked someone. (Of course not if the other human being is trying to literally kill me) Which is why I have taught my dogs not to attack other people, unless they or I are attacked. Any stranger can literally walk up to my dogs while eating and take their food.
And I feel the owner's pain, if you are also wondering. Heck, I almost cried when I heard the cries of the poor dog in that other vid. Horrible, but I can understand another human being's reasoning. (Doesn't mean I agree with them)
I agree with you. I think this is really broad use of the word.
The officer is really going to have to justify using this to enter the yard, because I don't buy his or her reason.
mariachi507
Member
Just watched the video from this thread. I just started crying my eyes out in anger and wanted to throw my laptop across the room. This isn't a normal response from me. From their facebook page I assume that there were no repercussions for the officer, but his boss apologized for him so I guess everything's cool now. People fucking astound me.
As I was saying.....People fucking astound me.
charlequin
Banned
I'll be honest, I couldn't actually bring myself to watch the video for pretty much this exact reason.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Poor guy. I think that's the worst way to lose your dog - not to disease or old age while under your care, but when you're not around and in a way that should not have happened. Bastards.
Nico_D
Member
I have to agree, up to a point. Not counting the real killer dogs or huge breeds, I can't really fathom how wouldn't a grown man be able to subdue an attacking dog without gun. I have a sherman shepard/hovawart/labrador and I'll wrestle with her regularly. This has teached my exactly how I can put her down whenever I want: when she's jumping against me, I grab her from the throat (gently, she just can get rid of the hand under her chin that easily) and flip her on her back and keep her down.
Sure, if it's a real situation, you WILL get bitten but I think - I could be wrong too - that any dog doesn't need a lot of wrestling before it realizes the other one is stronger and it should give up as they do when they meet a superior. Excluding any crazy dogs.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
I guess this is part of the problem as well.. in that the difference between a truly dangerous dog and this dog in particular since it's what we are talking about is HUGE even though their relative size is not. I feel like that knowledge should be common - and is for most people - but should almost definitely be something that these officers have been talked to/talked about/read/watched .. whatever... at some time before going out into the world with a gun and the liberty to decide when to use it.
I still stand by my experience and opinion (and i've known lots of pittbulls) that unless you're panicking and confused/startled/surprised by the animal you should be able to handle yourself almost 100% of the time. With pepper spray and baton? doubly so. Entering the premises as a Police Officer without a warrant? You had better be expecting anything as it's your godamned job.
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The exigent circumstances thing is a whole other bone. Imagine if someone had been home\out back and was surprised by the officer just barging in and reacted with a "get the fuck outta here" or something of that sort... any unwarranted violence on the officers part at that point would have a HUGE outcry/backlash/headache of paperwork for this cop... nevermind if he had drawn his weapon.
there especially can't be any exigent circumstance seeing as the kid was in the house the whole time. Unless a "Missing person" gives them the right to do whatever they want for miles around where the report was issued....
just ridiculous all around.
This is kind of a tangent but in the last 15 years or so things have gotten weird regarding animals where I live. As a child I routinely came into contact with loose dogs. Granted some were great animals, some were somewhat aggressive but easily dealt with non-violently and some were scary as hell it ran the whole gamut. Usually the owner never even apologized or just called it back and I never thought anything of that but now there's this trend of apologizing profusely when I run into a dog. A freaking chihuahua ran up to me a few months ago and was nipping at my pants leg, I gotta admit it was hilarious the little guy trying to scare me the best he could and really no problem at all but the owner just came rushing over apologizing so often over what years ago would have been a laughing matter between us both. It's like years ago both the dog owner and random people were both expected to more or less have had contact with dogs and not be wary of them, as a boy I was expected to shrug off the silly attacks of certain breeds much like I'd shrug off someone brushing against me on the bus but now it's like a run in with an animal's some kind of civil offense where I must be appeased to not try and get the dog killed or some crap. It's really weird to me.
There's a huge range of dogs but by adulthood I'm confident I can size one up in a second as to whether it poses a true threat or not and as a child I loved dogs(don't really know a kid who didn't like animals) so I find it hard to comprehend how any adult can not handle certain breeds and feel they have to kill it. Not that I think all dogs should be able to roam freely and nip at strangers, whether they're dangerous breeds or not, but being afraid of certain breeds is just silly. Obviously I can't tell a person what kind of irrational fear they can and can not possess, I myself am afraid of heights for some reason but I do think at some point the person should be able to recognize that while, yes, they may have the fear it is a stupid one.
From my point of view though I find it hard to trust a person who can't even handle a dog. Dogs to me are even easier to read and handle than humans and far more black and white. If you feel the need to just shoot and kill random dogs while on their turf then that seriously makes me question what you feel you need to do to other human beings for your own safety who are far more unpredictable than a dog.
There's a huge range of dogs but by adulthood I'm confident I can size one up in a second as to whether it poses a true threat or not and as a child I loved dogs(don't really know a kid who didn't like animals) so I find it hard to comprehend how any adult can not handle certain breeds and feel they have to kill it. Not that I think all dogs should be able to roam freely and nip at strangers, whether they're dangerous breeds or not, but being afraid of certain breeds is just silly. Obviously I can't tell a person what kind of irrational fear they can and can not possess, I myself am afraid of heights for some reason but I do think at some point the person should be able to recognize that while, yes, they may have the fear it is a stupid one.
From my point of view though I find it hard to trust a person who can't even handle a dog. Dogs to me are even easier to read and handle than humans and far more black and white. If you feel the need to just shoot and kill random dogs while on their turf then that seriously makes me question what you feel you need to do to other human beings for your own safety who are far more unpredictable than a dog.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
The funny thing here is that we CAN and SHOULD expect to be able to tell our Police Officers that this kind of irrational fear and reaction is unacceptable and will cost you your job and your pension at the very least. Good rant - i remember a time before calling to have dogs you didn't like killed was a thing as well and it was good...
Well what I mean is that you can have the fear you just have to master your reaction to it.
I mentioned I'm afraid of heights and I mean it. Literally using a small ladder to change an indoor light bulb makes me nervous, getting on the roof of a single story house is terrifying, so when I say I'm scared of heights I mean I'm scared of being 6 feet up or higher lol. That said, I joined the Army and jumped out of airplanes for 5 years. Unfortunately I never got over my fear but also never once did I not jump, not climb an obstacle course or rappel down some ravine or do whatever training we were doing. So while I can't expect other people to do better than I did and actually erase their fear I do expect them to be able to ignore it.
So yeah I think the cop's actions were wrong and he should be held accountable but I'm ok if he or other cops are afraid of dogs they just have to be strong enough to ignore that fear and act professionally in spite of that fear.
matrix-cat
Member
I would definitely be in jail, if not shot to death myself if this happened to me. I think I'd lose it completely.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
...what? How did you come to these conclusions?
ConradCervantes
Banned
That chief of police was a fucking asshole at that press conference, good god. His body language screamed utter detachment and resentment of the situation, like it was a complete waste of his precious time.
They'll go through the motions and put Olsen under investigation, but nothing will be done. Cops look out after their own, these shitheads always do. Disgusting situation.
They'll go through the motions and put Olsen under investigation, but nothing will be done. Cops look out after their own, these shitheads always do. Disgusting situation.
SolidsnackooFoxhound
Banned
I was just thinking. I wonder how it feels to be married to a scumbag piece of shit cop? It must be horrible.
Crimson-Death
Member
There is no clear anything son.
Loving a living being is something humans are meant to do. Are you implying no one should be upset?
That cops can just storm into private property and provoke the situation, and the owner not be compensated for his loss? Or at the very least, the owner be given an apology?
Are you implying that incompetence by the cops is acceptable and there should be no justice? That the cop should not be severely sanctioned?
I know that in other countries it is so.
The fucking imbecile should have gotten the fuck out of the private property instead of shooting the dog. The missing child was not in that property.
I don't know if the cop should lose his job, but he should be without a doubt demoted and kept behind a desk for a good long time, he has no business in the streets, like many other cops. But this is the good old US of A.
Sir Blaming
Member
mariachi507
Member
This is sort of a late reply but I noticed from this thread http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610211 that this isn't your first rodeo when defending a cop after they had murdered a dog. I'm not accusing you of having an agenda but I am noticing a trend here. I frequently interact with a number of police officers daily and they are in fact good people who have helped me at times and show compassion towards the public. At the same time, there is another officer in my area who is a complete and total asshole who currently has over 100 complaints filed against him for mistreatment and abuse of power. Mostly against the lower classed individuals who are not financially able to do anything about it. In a city of 4000 that is quite a bit of complaints and unfortunately it appears that he is protected by his higher ups at the moment. The point I'm getting at is that a cop can be a horrible human being just like anybody else can and from reading your post it seems that you are quick to defend anyone with a badge regardless of their actions. I know I'm just reiterating what other posters have stated but the facts are quite simple.
Cop shot dog.
I've become quite desensitized to violence over the years, however, I really wish I hadn't watched that video.
Summer Haze
Banned
Ugh, this just makes it so much worse. It all happened for literally no reason.
And smh at some of the shit posts in this thread. Defending the cop, no compassion for the owner, asking why people love dogs? Unbelievable.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Typical Police bullshit.
They got the gun happy dolt out of their ASAP and brought in a Sergeant to stone wall the victim.
What goes through the idiots head? Oh there's a dog barking in it's yard. Do I call the owner to obtain permission to search the area or do I just shoot the dog and carry on?
They got the gun happy dolt out of their ASAP and brought in a Sergeant to stone wall the victim.
What goes through the idiots head? Oh there's a dog barking in it's yard. Do I call the owner to obtain permission to search the area or do I just shoot the dog and carry on?
US cops are crazy as shit. There's a lot more shit happening in the US too, but come on, this is unbelievable, comical even... And honestly, doesn't look like there was ANY probable cause to even enter the property. Someone once wrote somewhere that US cops want to be a renegade cop like Clint Eastwood in the 70s and I'm starting to believe that...
Rekki-Maru
Banned
yup. That was chickenshit, that dog had more heart protecting his owner's territory than that cop.
Fucking imbeciles.
fabricated backlash
Member
I'm not a dog person. But fucking hell this hurt to watch. Just sad.
Summer Haze
Banned
Just watched the Police Chief conference, he looked like he couldn't be bothered to be there and completely dismissive of the public outcry and feelings of the owner.
The cop who shot the dog is "under investigation", or in other words "telling the public what they want to hear but jack shit will actually be done".
The cop who shot the dog is "under investigation", or in other words "telling the public what they want to hear but jack shit will actually be done".
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