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[charlequin]

sorry if this question got already answered: Did they find the missing child?

The kid was literally asleep in their own basement. They never left the house.

 

[Portugeezer]

This is one of the saddest stories I have come across for some time, probably because I can relate so well. I can't even imagine this guy's pain, I have the same kind of relationship with my dog, she's my world pretty much.

My dog is very aggressive to strangers, but she never gets out without a leash and the back yard is surrounded by brick walls. I always just assume my dog is perfectly safe, it's crazy to think that something like this can happen. You don't expect strangers to just enter your property. My dog would be a goner for sure in this situation, she's just defending her territory.

I know this is like a one in one million kind of thing, but I wonder if there is something more I can do? I probably should put up a sign at the very least.

Put up a sign in every corner "Trespassing cops, do not shoot my dog"

 

[Bodom78]

I feel bad for the dude, pets are part of the family for most so

 

[crazy monkey]

i might be minority here but, If cop had a reason to go to house to look for the missing kid they can for sure go. They should not need warrant for something that urgent. Provided they have enough evidence.

Regarding dog if it was attacking they will kill it. If it was just standing there and they killed it then it is different story.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Fucking horrible.

 

[Contra11]

I dont know why Americans love dogs that much .. it's clear that this dog are willing to attack the police ..

 

[kitchenmotors]

I dont know why Americans love dogs that much .. it's clear that this dog are willing to attack the police ..

So loving dogs is only an American thing?

smh at this post rn.

 

[rjinaz]

I dont know why Americans love dogs that much .. it's clear that this dog are willing to attack the police ..

Loving dogs is not just an American culture. I have met many people from all over the world that have close relationships with their pets.

Whether or not the dog would attack the officer is not relevant. The dog was on private property and properly secured behind a fence.

 

[speculawyer]

Pepper spray doesn't work on dogs (or rather, it's very inconsistent) . You also can't outrun a dog. What are you suggesting cops do when they encounter an aggressive dog? You could try to taze it, but that's one shot.

It works fine. If you try it and it doesn't work and then dog attacks then shoot.

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

Certainly not what I'm going to teach my children.

"Treat the cops like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. Given the right circumstances they will deal with a more immediate threat to your well being if it benefits them to do so, but they aren't your friends and they're always a lethal threat. No quick movements. No loud noises."

So essentially this?

On topic, goddamn, I feel awful for this guy. I hope he sues the shit out of them and gets the dog-shooting cop fired.

 

[CornBurrito]

i might be minority here but, If cop had a reason to go to house to look for the missing kid they can for sure go. They should not need warrant for something that urgent. Provided they have enough evidence.

Regarding dog if it was attacking they will kill it. If it was just standing there and they killed it then it is different story.

What evidence did they have exactly? The kid was in his own house. He never even left it.

 

[rjinaz]

Put up a sign in every corner "Trespassing cops, do not shoot my dog"

Yeah, no kidding. Yeesh.

 

[harriet the spy]

Pepper spray doesn't work on dogs (or rather, it's very inconsistent) . .

I am hugely skeptical of this claim. Pepper spray is wildly incapacitating against all mammals. I guess you could argue that a blind dog would find you by smell anyway, but i guess the spray should also affect that sense.

 

[kame-sennin]

But do you still really think it's logical to have a blanket attitude towards an entire profession?

If we were talking about the Cheka, the Stasi, the BRAC, or the SSI, no one would bat an eyelash at someone accusing the entire organization of being corrupt, barbaric, or repressive. And yet, I imagine there must have been at least one Chekist back in 1920, watching his comrade beating the shit out of an anti-bolshevik demonstrator, and thinking, "gee, this is wrong".

But history gives zero fucks about individuals of high moral character who did nothing while working for monstrous organizations.

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

I was just kidding. They do?

He's trying to make a joke. And no they don't. They get pepper spray, or did, and beyond that they have to learn how to handle a charging dog on their own. Shit, my dad is a mailman and has to deal with them all the time. Pepper spray will work on most dogs, unless we're talking the huge attack type dogs that are basically running on rage in their quest to bite you.

I don't know how to respond to this story. I'm just.. really angry and depressed at the same time.

 

[Mononoke]

If we were talking about the Cheka, the Stasi, the BRAC, or the SSI, no one would bat an eyelash at someone accusing the entire organization of being corrupt, barbaric, or repressive. And yet, I imagine there must have been at least one Chekist back in 1920, watching his comrade beating the shit out of an anti-bolshevik demonstrator, and thinking, "gee, this is wrong".

But history gives zero fucks about individuals of high moral character who did nothing while working for monstrous organizations.

I've since realized this statement was ignorant. In a perfect ideal world, having a blanket attitude towards an entire profession isn't 1:1 for logical. But the reality is, some groups of people are subjected to corruption and abuse from an establishment/system so consistently, that it's offensive to expect them to feel any different (or to have any trust in these establishments).

I apologized because while my intention was not one of malice, it was out of ignorance. It's easy to sit back and say people should look at things a certain way, when you aren't in their shoes, or having to experience the same corruption. The reality is, these corrupt departments and officers are to blame (not their victims). I still stand by my overall view that I think it's counter-productive to have a blanket attitude towards an entire profession and everyone in it. But at the same time, if I were in the place of victims who have to constantly deal with it, I don't really know how anyone could expect me to feel any different. And the reality is, while it's true not every cop is bad, it's still a big enough problem with the system (the number of cases) that the profession has lost its credibility.

You could argue its on the profession to get it back, not the people who have mistrust (because they have been abused).

 

[rjinaz]

I am hugely skeptical of this claim. Pepper spray is wildly incapacitating against all mammals. I guess you could argue that a blind dog would find you by smell anyway, but i guess the spray should also affect that sense.

I know that the US Postal Service makes the same claims about pepper spray. They used to issue it out to their employees but stopped doing so because they found that often times it makes the situation worse by making the dog even more angry and rarely did it stop an attack outright. We were taught to carry an empty box with us and use it as a shield more or less. Though mostly they just wanted us to avoid situations involving dogs altogether.

 

[Ghazi]

The kid was literally asleep in their own basement. They never left the house.

I feel so sorry for the guy. Shit was unnecessary and completely unfair to him.

 

[harriet the spy]

I know that the US Postal Service makes the same claims about pepper spray. They used to issue it out to their employees but stopped doing so because they found that often times it makes the situation worse by making the dog even more angry and rarely did it stop an attack outright. We were taught to carry an empty box with us and use it as a shield more or less. Though mostly they just wanted us to avoid situations involving dogs altogether.

I think that cop should be rotting in prison a long time, and people whose dog represent a risk to mailman don't deserve to get mail. Actually a mailman should not have to have to interact with any dogs, period.

 

[Verelios]

i might be minority here but, If cop had a reason to go to house to look for the missing kid they can for sure go. They should not need warrant for something that urgent. Provided they have enough evidence.

Regarding dog if it was attacking they will kill it. If it was just standing there and they killed it then it is different story.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't think they had probable cause. For one thing, the kid was found asleep in his goddamn basement. Why was the house not the first thing they checked?

Second, they need a warrant. Yes, in times of emergency they're able to forgo that. Maybe. With severe repercussions (haha) afterwards. Should've still talked to the homeowner. This isn't CSI, we can't have Police Officers coming onto our property for whatever reason, whenever, because they 'believe' something to be amiss. Do you not see the slippery slope?

 

[werks]

i might be minority here but, If cop had a reason to go to house to look for the missing kid they can for sure go. They should not need warrant for something that urgent. Provided they have enough evidence.

Regarding dog if it was attacking they will kill it. If it was just standing there and they killed it then it is different story.

What reason did the cops have? Just cause their is a missing child doesn't mean the whole neighborhood gives up it's 4th amendment right.

At times exigent circumstances will make obtaining a warrant impractical. The law permits officers to make warrantless searches and seizures if they find that exigent circumstances exist and that they have probable cause. An exigent circumstance exists when an officer has a compelling need to take official action but lacks the time needed to acquire a warrant. Determining probable cause in this context requires a consideration of the totality of the circumstances to determine whether an officer acted in accord with a high probability that the search would turn up contraband or evidence. The decision maker must examine the facts making up the totality of the circumstances from the viewpoint of an objectively reasonable officer prior to making the arrest.

It would be one thing if a child was screaming, or a suspect was seen entering the house. They had nothing. These cops are so fucking worthless that they didn't properly check the house the kid lived in (or they would have found him), but we are to believe they had an exigent circumstance to enter an empty house. Maybe the cop should have done his godam job and searched the house the boy belonged to first before searching other houses in the neighborhood without due process.

 

[rjinaz]

I think that cop should be rotting in prison a long time, and people whose dog represent a risk to mailman don't deserve to get mail. Actually a mailman should not have to have to interact with any dogs, period.

Mostly they don't. But part of the job is entering people's property, even if that just means going to the door. Dogs hate that. On rare occasion a dog might run out when the door is open and attack the postal person. It's not always possible to avoid these situations entirely, unfortunately.

 

[kame-sennin]

Certainly not what I'm going to teach my children.

"Treat the cops like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park. Given the right circumstances they will deal with a more immediate threat to your well being if it benefits them to do so, but they aren't your friends and they're always a lethal threat. No quick movements. No loud noises."

Wow, this is brilliant.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I dont know why Americans love dogs that much .. it's clear that this dog are willing to attack the police ..

The domestication of the canine began before American was even called America.

 

[Heshinsi]

How do you millions of Americans survive encountering unknown dogs each year without resorting to shooting them? What makes the cops so different that they can't respond like a normal human being?

 

[Moppet13]

Pretty sure if there was an aggressive dog in the backyard, there probably wasn't a kid.

 

[rjinaz]

How do you millions of Americans survive encountering unknown dogs each year without resorting to shooting them? What makes the cops so different that they can't respond like a normal human being?

Well I'll tell you how I survive encounters with dogs, I don't go into people's closed up yards.

America has very strict dog rules in place anywhere I have ever been, It's not like dogs are running around in the streets you know. They have to be on leashes or secured at all times. As was the case here.

Edit: I think I read what you wrote wrong. I apologize, you were being sarcastic.

 

[charlequin]

What are you suggesting cops do when they encounter an aggressive dog?

Pretty much the same things that people who aren't authorized to carry deadly weapons do when they encounter an aggressive dog: start by standing still and issuing commands to determine if the dog is just posturing and will stand down, then seize it at the throat and wrestle it to the ground. In the best case the dog won't attack at all, or can be restrained without harm to either party; in the worst case, an injury from wrestling the dog to the ground will be less invariably fatal than gunshots, and at far less risk to bystanders.

This actually parallels the issues surrounding police use of deadly force against human suspects as well. In many cases, police jump directly to lethal force despite gunshots being both more dangerous for others in the area and less reliable as a mechanism for stopping an aggressive suspect.

 

[FinalFanXtreme]

Seeing the pictures of the dog you can tell that it isn't even an aggressive breed it looks like it would run up and hug you. WTF is wrong with this world... I don't know what I would do if this were me. I hope he wins any lawsuits he brings forward, this is sickening.

 

[Heshinsi]

Well I'll tell you how I survive encounters with dogs, I don't go into people's closed up yards.

America has very strict dog rules in place anywhere I have ever been, It's not like dogs are running around in the streets you know. They have to be on leashes or secured at all times. As was the case here.

Edit: I think I read what you wrote wrong. I apologize, you were being sarcastic.

Yeah I was asking why it is that regular unarmed citizens seem to survive dog encounters, yet a lot of cops seem to think shooting the dog is their only option.

 

[gutter_trash]

it has gotten to the point that home owners must place security cams recording their front porch and backyards at all times to record proof of really is going on.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I have no words.

 

[TheSadRanger]

What reason did the cops have? Just cause their is a missing child doesn't mean the whole neighborhood gives up it's 4th amendment right.



It would be one thing if a child was screaming, or a suspect was seen entering the house. They had nothing. These cops are so fucking worthless that they didn't properly check the house the kid lived in (or they would have found him), but we are to believe they had an exigent circumstance to enter an empty house. Maybe the cop should have done his godam job and searched the house the boy belonged to first before searching other houses in the neighborhood without due process.

I like this post. There's definitely some incompetence on the police themselves or the policies in place for procedures on missing kids.

 

[Coins]

I am hugely skeptical of this claim. Pepper spray is wildly incapacitating against all mammals. I guess you could argue that a blind dog would find you by smell anyway, but i guess the spray should also affect that sense.

I've been attacked countless times by Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, and various mutts while I'm delivering mail and pepper spray has stopped them all. It works. Cops should be trained to use it on dogs instead of just shooting.

 

[rjinaz]

I've been attacked countless times by Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, and various mutts while I'm delivering mail and pepper spray has stopped them all. It works. Cops should be trained to use it on dogs instead of just shooting.

It's amazing how conflicting information can be. I'll take your word on it over my Post Office's though, they probably say it doesn't work so they don't feel obligated to pay for it. Who knows.

I agree, if it works, there is no excuse for it not being used in situations like these. An officer should be required to carry pepper spray before even entering a closed yard.

 

[CornBurrito]

it has gotten to the point that home owners must place security cams recording their front porch and backyards at all times to record proof of really is going on.

Except in places where police departments are pushing to make it illegal to record an on duty cop.

 

[Octavia]

I feel bad for the officers on the scene there, because as someone who works customer service and when shit flows downhill, you have to deal with some really angry people or people with some obvious legitimate concerns. But there's like, nothing you can do in a case like that, and it's so awkward because you can't pick sides obviously.

Obviously the officer who shot the dog fucked up beyond belief though.

 

[Blearth]

what would make me even more pissed is the smirk on the lady officer and the officer with the sun glasses faces. This was not a laughing matter and nothing was funny about the situation so why was they smirking?

They kill people all the time like its nothing. You think they give a fuck about an animal?

 

[TrueGrime]

Pretty much the same things that people who aren't authorized to carry deadly weapons do when they encounter an aggressive dog: start by standing still and issuing commands to determine if the dog is just posturing and will stand down, then seize it at the throat and wrestle it to the ground. In the best case the dog won't attack at all, or can be restrained without harm to either party; in the worst case, an injury from wrestling the dog to the ground will be less invariably fatal than gunshots, and at far less risk to bystanders.

This actually parallels the issues surrounding police use of deadly force against human suspects as well. In many cases, police jump directly to lethal force despite gunshots being both more dangerous for others in the area and less reliable as a mechanism for stopping an aggressive suspect.

I don't think I'd want to grab any dog by the throat. Especially the more aggressive breeds. If I have to restrain a dog from mauling me then I'm going to try to injure it badly or kill it.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

I feel bad for the officers on the scene there, because as someone who works customer service and when shit flows downhill, you have to deal with some really angry people or people with some obvious legitimate concerns. But there's like, nothing you can do in a case like that, and it's so awkward because you can't pick sides obviously.

Obviously the officer who shot the dog fucked up beyond belief though.

Pretty much. The sergeant on scene really had nothing to say...that officer really fucked up.

 

[TrueGrime]

I bet the SLC PD facebook is being torn to shreds right now.

 

[TheJLC]

Pretty much the same things that people who aren't authorized to carry deadly weapons do when they encounter an aggressive dog: start by standing still and issuing commands to determine if the dog is just posturing and will stand down, then seize it at the throat and wrestle it to the ground. In the best case the dog won't attack at all, or can be restrained without harm to either party; in the worst case, an injury from wrestling the dog to the ground will be less invariably fatal than gunshots, and at far less risk to bystanders.

This actually parallels the issues surrounding police use of deadly force against human suspects as well. In many cases, police jump directly to lethal force despite gunshots being both more dangerous for others in the area and less reliable as a mechanism for stopping an aggressive suspect.

Never going to happen.

I rather shoot the dog than stand still and hope I somehow grab his throat as it tries to kill me. An officer is trained to avoid injury (not only death) and legally can shoot by the perceived danger alone.

 

[RiZ III]

Fucking cops. I don't hate all cops, just all the ones I have ever encountered. The way laws are written give way to much power to these assholes.

 

[Wazzy]

God I fucking hate cops when they shoot dogs.

 

[TrueGrime]

I'm watching a video of the SLC police chief having a conference on the matter and he is angry at the public for reacting so harshly to the officer.

"After 23 years in law enforcement, I haven't seen this type of public outcry when certain human beings have lost their lives."

....wtf?

 

[TheJLC]

Reading must be hard. The child wasn't anywhere near the property. The kid wasn't in danger. They didn't have a warrant to search the property.

They don't need a search warrant. Police responded under supposed exigent circumstance that there was a possibility of a lost child being there.

 

[YoungHav]

#notallpolice

 

[CornBurrito]

They don't need a search warrant. Police responded under supposed exigent circumstance that there was a possibility of a lost child being there.

Seems fucked that they can basically raid any home in a neighborhood whenever a child is reported missing. Maybe they should have used police dogs to try and smell the boy out, rather than relying on... what exactly? Why'd they even bother searching random homes? Why suspect a neighbor of the kidnapping?

Exigent circumstances sounds like a great way of eroding our rights and promoting an untouchable police state. Hopefully laws that make it illegal to film cops never get passed.

 

[rjinaz]

Here is the support group facebook page called Justice for Geist. It looks like they are demanding that the police officer get fired. Sounds good to me. They also have a petition. Seems like the owner is directly involved with this group as well.

 

[captive]

I dont know why Americans love dogs that much

what the tuck?

.. it's clear that this dog are willing to attack the police ..

yea, except its not clear, at all.

It's amazing how conflicting information can be. I'll take your word on it over my Post Office's though, they probably say it doesn't work so they don't feel obligated to pay for it. Who knows.

I agree, if it works, there is no excuse for it not being used in situations like these. An officer should be required to carry pepper spray before even entering a closed yard.

Pepper spray is typically made from the same base ingredient at Cheyenne pepper. Its quite potent. I mean I guess its possible certain dogs/breeds may not be sensitive to it. But for the most part it works on lots of animals.

Mythbusters even did a test where they were trying to find a Bear repellent, they put down commercial products and the bear just went right through, into the car and ate the meat that was the bait. They put down Cheyenne pepper everywhere and not only would the bear not go through it, it would go around the pepper so it wouldn't even get its feet in it. I used to put spices like this on things my dog was chewing on, she quickly stopped chewing on these things.


Props to the dog owner for staying relatively calm. If this happened to my border collie, who is VERY protective of her yard and house, I would probably be going to jail.