Dictator93
Member
yes. But it currently only works on windows.
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DICE: PS4 & Mantle will drive Frostbite design and optimisation going forward
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
yes. But it currently only works on windows.
That would make me very happy
People really dont get it. Mantle is for PC and maybe mobile. PS4 is focus for DICE, because is more powerful and a little more straight forward console, but that doesnt mean that it is powerful enough
1080p30 yeah, 1080p60 no.
This thread has got me even more confused about Mantle now than I was before reading it.
Is Mantle made by AMD or DICE/EA?
Is it still more or less locked to AMD GCN cards or can any card theoretically utilize it? When they say other vendors can use it what exactly does that mean? My previous understanding was that it was designed around the GCN architecture which meant that even if AMD opened it up to other vendors it would be pointless for them as it was designed around AMD cards. Now I have no idea.
Is Mantle made by AMD or DICE/EA?
Is it still more or less locked to AMD GCN cards or can any card theoretically utilize it? When they say other vendors can use it what exactly does that mean? My previous understanding was that it was designed around the GCN architecture which meant that even if AMD opened it up to other vendors it would be pointless for them as it was designed around AMD cards. Now I have no idea.
chickdigger802
Banned
depends. star wars has always had a more sterile look, and stuff like hoth level... maybe it will be less visually intensive than bf?
and who knows when battlefront will be out :/
I'm pretty sure that's the case as well; Mantle is just a PC's version of "coding to the metal", it's not meant to boost console performance because that's what the console's API is for. Any new performance gains would probably just be from finding better ways of doing things, like always when working with consoles for a long time. Mantle might work some magic for PC, but not much for consoles.
Call me out if wrong.
My take is, that there are going to be many extra eyes on optimization now, so it will benefit the PS4 as well, but we'll see many more benefits on the PC side.
velociraptor
Junior Member
1080p60, yeah - 7850 can run BF4 1080p60.
I don't think most people are as caught up in this as you are, mate.
AstroZombie
Banned
How about showing some benchmarks?
Everyone that buys an AMD card. Not sure how I'd benefit from this if I went with NVIDIA.
Everyone that buys an AMD card. Not sure how I'd benefit from this if I went with NVIDIA.
So what that it can? [even though i'm not sure it can on High]
We are not talking about BF 4, we are talking about Battlefront, which will be next-gen only.
DICE is aiming for PS4 as target for high settings or medium/high settings, in probably 1080p30. Xbone will have dialed back settings or resolution. PCs will have Mantle optimization and everything cranked to 11.
So basically DICE is using PS4 for developing Frostbite 3 engine feature for future games, it is their baseline of performance. It must run in decent quality on PS4. Xbone will have same effects, but their precision will be dialed back in some cases.
PCs will have higher range of available preset up very high and demanding quality.
DoF for example. PS4 is baseline - half res sprite based 50 taps. Xbone half-res 30 taps. PC 100 taps on High or full res and 50 taps on Ultra.
velociraptor
Junior Member
They aimed 60FPS for BF4. Perhaps by fully shifting their development to next-gen consoles only, they can reach the target of 1080p60. Besides, I can't imagine Battlefront being as demanding as BF4 (i.e. 64 players, massive maps, levolution, destruction).
Why? You're thinking they will release Battlefront with similar assets fidelity to BF4 and same effects?
Why would they not evolve their engine?
Add PoM, Tessellation, Area Lights, SSR and Your framerate will already go down.
velociraptor
Junior Member
They will evolve. They will also further optimise.
"Further optimize". By how much do You think? Just think about numbers for a second.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Dat Battlefront 3.
The point made was that Sony's graphics API is very similar to what's being done in Mantle. So DICE said it is very little work to take something directly for Mantle and move it over to Sony.
Read from that what you will. It means nothing about 1080p60. It simply means that the APIs are similar and thus the only differences "should" be the difference in hardware performance.
So no it likely doesn't mean PS4 will look exactly like the PC. but it should mean we should see a consistent level of quality between the two, power differences aside.
cripterion
Member
Funny seeing NFS on that slide when we know the game is locked at 30fps on pc.. Good for AMD to push mantle though, will be waiting to see how it turns out but having previous experience with both manufacturers and the price drops on Nvidia cards, I'm definitely staying green.
googleplex
Member
1080p at 60fps is completely achievable on PS4.
AstroZombie
Banned
Depends on what they'll be doing tech-wise.
I guess I could see that meaning performance more consistent / scaling better with the level of hardware, and not "console magic offering double the performance".
TJP
Member
According to Alan of VVV Automotive Rivals isn't capped to 30fps on PC so there is a bit of confusion over this point: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87299707&postcount=36
Yes, although Star Citizen isn't solely an AMD game as it will incorporate PhysX. I agree though competition like this is very healthy.
Chobel
Member
So on every other device, the question is how much visual fidelity you're willing to lose to achieve this.
Probably a "duh!", but it's nice to have this said out loud.
https://twitter.com/bionicbeagle/status/400885252932911104
https://twitter.com/bionicbeagle/status/400885252932911104
Stefan Boberg said:
iamshadowlark
Banned
Im glad he clears up shit like this. I get tired of the resident gaf "experts" who don't know shit about it making all of these definitive statements and dismissing anything that doesn't fit inside their closed little box of perception.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
This adds more evidence to the fear (if you have an XB1) that MS' s console is going to be left behind increasingly with PS4 and PC sitting on one side of the fence together. It's not just about Xbox's troublesome ESRAM.
That's laughable coming from you.
Problem here is adoption by other vendors and R&D time.
Just changing how cf/sli works will be huge. Proper scaling is future of APIs because like in CPUs case it will just be better to add one more core instead of using wizadry and ton of money to get more performance out of single core
iamshadowlark
Banned
Is it now?
I don't think the R&D time is gonna be much at all to worry about. And when I say that, I mean that its not gonna be radically any different or more challenging than any normal shift in platform to platform(ala the current console transition) or a new significant DX/OGL revision.
dr_rus
Member
It's nice to want things.
But to get them they shouldn't have done it the way they did. Instead they'll get several low level APIs now in case Mantle will get good traction on the market.
AstroZombie
Banned
Say what?
~$190 AMD CPU with 8 cores has same performance with Mantle as Intel's ~$340 CPU with 4cores/8threads.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Sounds good to me. Now let's see the results.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Over the course of a generation, the later games tend to perform/look better than those in the beginning. Just take a look at GT6 - 1440x1080 resolution, 60 frames per second.
Angelus Errare
Banned
It's amazing how Repi gives an hour long presentation on Mantle and yet people in this very thread STILL spout incorrect stuff as fact.
Fortunately neogaf was not the target audience for my presentation
It was fellow developers and technology press, to have them learn about Mantle which I hope they did at the event! Did a bunch of interviews also so should be some articles popping up within the next week
McHuj
Member
Probably when dealing with dispatching GPU commands and the GPU drivers.
RaptorGTA
Member
Indeed!
I like how you are flipping the argument and blaming DICE/Johan. Really ignorant when they went to Nvidia and Intel as well.
dr_rus
Member
So it's Nvidia's fault now that they've decided against creating a new proprietary tech and concentrated on improving common APIs now. You're hillarious.