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[Busty]

Once again Microsoft's PR department is a day late and a dollar short.

Every time they plant something like this it just serves to emphasize their worry about the Xbone's power relative to the PS4's graphical performance.

The smart thing to do would be say nothing.

I could have sworn that this stuff didn't matter and it was all about the games.

It didn't.

Back in the bad ol' days.

 

[~~Hasan~~]

Not shrinking. Only confirming what we expected. Everyone was running with PS4 at 40% GPU advantage with 1.84TF vs 1.31TF. Now we know it's actually 1.18TF that's available for Xbone.

correct me if i am wrong. but doesnt the PS3 have more TF than xbox 360 ? i dont think that means anything. at all.

i am not dissing any of them systems. as i might probably buy both of them next month " already have them both pre ordered"

 

[Shaddy]

This article is written by Leadbetter, am I right?

Btw., those articles sound as if it's not possible to tweak the PS4 over time.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

So this is 10 percent of the figures we already know about and they might get it back.

I'll watch as some spin this as 10 percent on top of what we already know of.

 

[mangochutney]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

It is an awful headline. Makes it sound like they giving the GPU a boost, but they're just reducing system allocation.

MS PR headline: MS to give developers more GPU power.

Sony PR headline: Xbox One to reserve up to 10% of GPU for Kinect and OS; PS4 now 67.56437% more powerful.

Neutral headline: MS to reduce GPU system reserves over time

 

[Minions]

That is unfortunate. They already bumped the clock once. I'd hate to see them do it again (after launch) and have another RROD fiasco. I wonder how high they stress tested all these APU's, and what their tollerances are. The Nextbox does have a lot of open space in the case (not neccessarily a good thing); They could probably push for higher clocks... but would likely lose their "entirely silent" console that they are targeting. I guess it will come down to a matter of their priorities. I still don't think they will be able to match the PS4 on parity, so I think they may be better off to strictly focus on offering more features than anything else; instead of trying to modify their console to match the competition.

 

[cyberheater]

It's not like they have a choice. I'm betting right now they wished they didn't have any of those snap features so they could give games 100% of the power. Anything to narrow the performance chasm between the two consoles.

MS. You dun fecked up. You cheapened out on a low arse GPU and you're going to pay for it for the next 10 years.

 

[jaypah]

How is this news? Isn't this the same 10 percent that always gets harped on? I thought it was something like 2 cores and 10 percent of the gpu?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Good on them. You can expect this to be refined from both console manufacturers. I don't know if it's necessary to mention this but if it makes it seem like positive news then why not. They could and should reduce some of the overhead and I think performance will likely increase for MSFT and Sony once things settle down.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Why didn't they just use a comparable GPU in the first place then none of this would even matter. Then they could have claimed to have just as good as hardware as the PS4 with the added functionality of Kinect they are trying to sell.

Now, every time they speak up about the hardware it's just "Yeah, we know our hardware is lacking compared to our competition but don't worry about that we have great games. BTW, we found a way to reduce the wattage used by the power supply adding an additional 2% overall improvement in performance so we are really excited about that."

It's just lame and reeks of desperation.

 

[Facism]

Isn't it logical, that the further they get into the console's lifespan, there will be opportunities to reduce GPU/CPU/RAM footprint of the OS? It's not going to stay static from release as they code and find ways of doing more with less.

tempted to say "SHOCKING NEWS" but i'm not all that clued in on these things anymore.

Why didn't they just use a comparable GPU in the first place then none of this would even matter. Then they could have claimed to have just as good as hardware as the PS4 with the added functionality of Kinect they are trying to sell.

Now, every time they speak up about the hardware it's just "Yeah, we know our hardware is lacking compared to our competition but don't worry about that we have great games. BTW, we found a way to reduce the wattage used by the power supply adding an additional 2% overall improvement in performance so we are really excited about that."

It's just lame and reeks of desperation.

Maybe they didn't know, or if they did, thought that PS4 would be lumbered with only 4gb of RAM. I'm sure there was a lot of sound reasoning behind their choices in the construction of their console. They really do need to keep quiet about the tech specifics. Rolleyes everytime someone comes out to say something about the power of the cloud, balance, all that nonsense. Like one of those shady guys trying to sell you a mobile phone outside a kebab shop.

Just chat about the bloody games. You have them, they aren't shit, people are actively interested in them, Mr Microsoft.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Let me guess.

By Richard Leadbetter.

Right?

 

[ekim]

Another article coming this weekend? Nice.

 

[IT Slave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The most interesting quote in the article was this from an Xbox One developer:

"We will probably see a lot of sub-1080p games (with hardware upscale), but this is probably because there is not enough time to learn the GPU when the development environment, and sometimes clock speeds, are changing underneath you," our source said, referring to the Xbox One's evolving "mono driver" and last-minute hardware tweaks.

This is completely in line with what I said about the Ryse 900p issue. It's a launch game and 900p was the quickest way to get the per-pixel detail they wanted. If Ryse wasn't a launch game and was instead a launch window game, it would be 1080p.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Another article coming this weekend? Nice.

More potential spinning if this is a Leadbetter piece.

This article is written by Leadbetter, am I right?

Btw., those articles sound as if it's not possible to tweak the PS4 over time.

Yes for both PS4 and Xbone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The most interesting quote in the article was this from an Xbox One developer:


This is completely in line with what I said about the Ryse 900p issue. It's a launch game and 900p was the quickest way to get the per-pixel detail they wanted. If Ryse wasn't a launch game and was instead a launch window game, it would be 1080p.

It's going to be interesting if we have this discussion about Xbone games in 2-3 years then.

 

[Gnorman]

So, many people were theorizing a 20-30% "real world" power advantage for the PS4 on paper, but once you add in the 10% XB1 CPU boost + this 10% GPU boost on top of the esram to make up for the rest of the difference, we're probably looking at ps3/360 type parity for these machines when it's all said and done.

Wow... I can't tell who is serious and who isn't these days. :-(

 

[Wishmaster92]

How is this news? Isn't this the same 10 percent that always gets harped on? I thought it was something like 2 cores and 10 percent of the gpu?

Yeah it's old, we knew it would reserve 10% of the gpu. Good news is that they will unlock some of that for games.

 

[Whiteshirt]

correct me if i am wrong. but doesnt the PS3 have more TF than xbox 360 ? i dont think that means anything. at all.

i am not dissing any of them systems. as i might probably buy both of them next month " already have them both pre ordered"

With the CPU yes. With the GPU, no the Xenon is more powerful and has a vastly more progressive architecture with unified shaders. Then you've got the RAM problems with the PS4.

In this case, the PS4 has the better RAM allocation for gaming, a more powerful GPU from the same architecture as its competitor. The only thing it has is a marginally weaker CPU.

 

[open_mouth_]

But XB1 devs had to have known about this from the get go and this reserve was factored into the early comparisons between the two systems. If they can free up more resources for games than what was expected, isn't that a good thing?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

You guys really need to get off your stupidly high, biased high horse.

Nah, let them keep embarrassing themselves, good for a laugh.

On topic, i suspect that this won't amount to much when all is said and done. MS has really been knocked back on their rear with this console reveal, pretty startling actually.

 

[Brera]

The problem MS have in the hearts and minds is that...it s 50% less powerful when it comes to specs.

All they are confirming with this is that....it was actually 60% less powerful before and is now 50% less powerful as we believed it to be!

 

[USC-fan]

Another article coming this weekend? Nice.

Oh that where we find out about the magical ROPs... lol

Never let hope die.....

 

[runningjoke]

Once they've optimised the features using the reserved resources, they'll just cram in more features.

 

[jcm]

So 10% more for Xbone makes the PS4 only 40% faster?

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

So, many people were theorizing a 20-30% "real world" power advantage for the PS4 on paper, but once you add in the 10% XB1 CPU boost + this 10% GPU boost on top of the esram to make up for the rest of the difference, we're probably looking at ps3/360 type parity for these machines when it's all said and done.

And this is why companies do this PR spinning. It actually works.

 

[dragonelite]

Probably optimisation, like we saw this gen. I hope anyway.

Wouldn't be surprised if the games want to use like the whole GPU it will tell the user that when playing it stop all apps and disable snapping function.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I'm not surprised at a lowering footprint because.... that's what they did this gen

 

[stryke]

That is unfortunate. They already bumped the clock once. I'd hate to see them do it again (after launch) and have another RROD fiasco.

What??! They're not doing anything with the clocks. Prioritising more GPU power to games is not going to hurt the console.

 

[Bundy]

Digital Foundry really feel like a press release forum for Microsoft nowadays.

Leadbetter is Microsoft's best friend.

Well, I hope they unlock the 10%, which were reserved for Kinect.
The GPU is already weak enough.

 

[vpance]

correct me if i am wrong. but doesnt the PS3 have more TF than xbox 360 ? i dont think that means anything. at all.

i am not dissing any of them systems. as i might probably buy both of them next month " already have them both pre ordered"

"Already have both preordered". Where have I heard that before.

 

[gruenel]

wait a minute, if they are giving the 10% back, won't it mean Kinect won't run?

Kinectless console confirmed?!?

What they'll probably do is give some % back to the devs if they don't use Kinect or certain Kinect features, or do some kind of dynamic resource allocation.

Yeah it's old, we knew it would reserve 10% of the gpu. Good news is that they will unlock some of that for games.

It was just a rumor though, now we have confirmation.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

But XB1 devs had to have known about this from the get go and this reserve was factored into the early comparisons between the two systems. If they can free up more resources for games than what was expected, isn't that a good thing?

Absolutely.

 

[foxbeldin]

Wouldn't be surprised if the games want to use like the whole GPU it will tell the user that when playing it stop all apps and disable snapping function.

Yes, something like the 'the network features have been disabled' on Uncharted vita, but with apps and kinect.

 

[IT Slave]

These guys need to stop talking specs. It simply highlights a disadvantage.

It's a technical interview. This is not a Microsoft press release.

This is very insightful as it highlights what the decisions behind the design choices were. I for one appreciate the transparency. With all the heat people give Microsoft, they're putting their stuff out there. We still more about Xbox One inside-out than PS4.

 

[tkalamba]

I'm expecting Sony to reserve 2 CPU cores and 2GB RAM. But Sony never confirmed anything in this direction.

That's what I figured.

I feel like there's no real point in comparing the numbers for the GPU at this point as we don't fully know what thee PS4 will be using or if it uses the GPU at all for a reserve. Until it is fully confirmed, these comparisons are kind of pointless.

 

[OryoN]

What difference does it make? Maybe they'll regain a few cycles of performance in actual games, but this would have been the case with optimizations over the console's lifetime anyway. All the comparisons to date were with the assumption that each console's were at their theoretical max, so other than stating the obvious(more system resources are freed up to developers over time), this bit of info come across as damage-control.

 

[Man]

Let's just compare multiplatform games come November shall we?

 

[Wishmaster92]

I'm not surprised at a lowering footprint because.... that's what they did this gen

Free up gpu power, or reduce os memory footprint(ram)?

 

[Quasar]

That doesnt sound like a very good idea to me.

 

[gofreak]

Oh that where we find out about the magical ROPs... lol

Never let hope die.....

They did address ROPs in this article mind you.

They acknowledged their comment about the 6.6% upclock improving performance indicated a ROP bound in the games benched, but they say that that's really also tied to a bandwidth bound.

They then do some calculations which seem to totally ignore cache and colour compression etc to argue why it would have been not much use to put more ROPs into XB1 because of bandwidth limitations.

 

[Barzul]

Ok I have a question, this is regarding the PS4 and if it has any reserve because of the PSeye. Now I know some will say since it isn't required, Sony does not have to allocate any special resources to it. But what if I do have it plugged in (I think there was an article that said the Eye will have some form of gesture and voice based controls), does this mean I'd get worse performance compared to those who don't have the Eye plugged in?

 

[Busty]

This is completely in line with what I said about the Ryse 900p issue. It's a launch game and 900p was the quickest way to get the per-pixel detail they wanted. If Ryse wasn't a shitty Kinect game originally developed for the 360 and then retroactively turned into an Xbone launch game and was instead developed for the Xbone from day one it might be 1080p because if Crytek can't do it no one can.

Fixed.

 

[BRocknRolla]

That's one way to spin confirmation of a 10% GPU reserve, I guess.

I thought the same. First thing I thought was, "Huh, I wonder how they'll add more juice?." Then I realized they've already taken 10% away, and plan to give some back in time. Quite the spin indeed.

 

[Brera]

So, many people were theorizing a 20-30% "real world" power advantage for the PS4 on paper, but once you add in the 10% XB1 CPU boost + this 10% GPU boost on top of the esram to make up for the rest of the difference, we're probably looking at ps3/360 type parity for these machines when it's all said and done.

I think this is the sort of techstupidity that MS are relying on with this news!

 

[IT Slave]

Yep!

Xbox One GPU has 1.179 TFLOPS for games for right now vs PS4 1.84 TFLOPS.


Now we know why the devs are still saying that the PS4 GPU is 50% faster because it's 56% faster for games.

We don't know that Sony hasn't sliced some GPU time for their OS. If PS4's OS is going to do anything but basic multitasking, it will probably have to.

 

[Bundy]

Good news indeed. With the recent PS4 news and now this, it seems that the difference between the platforms is shrinking. Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is still clearly more powerful, but it seems it will be a close race.

So, many people were theorizing a 20-30% "real world" power advantage for the PS4 on paper, but once you add in the 10% XB1 CPU boost + this 10% GPU boost on top of the esram to make up for the rest of the difference, we're probably looking at ps3/360 type parity for these machines when it's all said and done.

So 10% more for Xbone makes the PS4 only 40% faster?

Jesus Christ....

And this is why companies do this PR spinning. It actually works.

Yep.... it really works.....

 

[QuikZilver]

Don't ruin the balance!

How do I upvote this?

 

[ouge123]

confirmed: ps4 needs zero reservation for its system functionality!!!!

 

[ekim]

Oh that where we find out about the magical ROPs... lol

Never let hope die.....

Not having the need to synchronize GPGPU with rendering is a good thing imho.

And this quote

"For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z [depth] enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth.

implies that the ROPs are directly connected to the ESRAM if I don't misunderstand something.

 

[foxbeldin]

But XB1 devs had to have known about this from the get go and this reserve was factored into the early comparisons between the two systems. If they can free up more resources for games than what was expected, isn't that a good thing?

Well actually, you could put it like this :
-It's up to 10% less than we thought
-Devs are going to have a few % more power than they thought.

So basically, it means second wave of games will have a bit more, but the gap with PS4 is bigger than we expected.

Spoiler

Except for people here who apparently were already aware of the 10% reservation.

 

[Brera]

This article is written by Leadbetter, am I right?

Btw., those articles sound as if it's not possible to tweak the PS4 over time.

Even the PS3 could be tweaked over time. OS RAM reduced over time for instance.