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Digital Foundry: Performance Analysis: Destiny on Xbox One
- Thread starter ElTorro
- Start date
biglittleps
Member
PS4 has 30-40% more horse power and has Unified Fast RAM with excellent parallel Async computing units compared to Xbox one. So, if the developer tries to optimize like bungie did with Xbox one by increasing resolution 30% more by optimizing then surely PS4 can get that performance atleast variable FPS 60FPS working most of the time and above 45+. However, this game is built around 30FPS goal and they wanted same experience all consoles(we can see PS3/xbox360 looking good too except resolution) so they did not push PS4 hard to its limits.
Consoles do not exist in vacuum. And difference in resolution, in most games released, is enough to cover this difference, which exactly why the difference between both is not that big and significant from development standpoint. PC however, are where the disparity problem starts to appear.
How can you tell that?
RowdyReverb
Member
You're nitpicking. The bandwidth for the two consoles is still similar enough. You're making it sound like cross-platform games are being developed to target something as far behind as the Wii was in seventh-gen, when it's just not the case. Games will have slightly better IQ on the PS4, but that's the extent of it. There's not some major breakthrough in the PS4's architecture that makes it able to run games with a design that would be completely impossible to replicate on the XB1.
Night Angel
Member
^You're reaching pretty hard here. Does a PC with 4 GB of DDR3 and 4 GB of VRAM perform the same as one with 8 GB of DDR3? The answer is no. Not even close.
It's really not hard to understand. People want the best experience they can have on the hardware they bought. It seems like Bungie left some unused headroom on the PS4. People wish they had fully used the console's power, since it seems like most other devs have not had an issue doing just that up to now.
As long as the next cod is actually 60fps and not the mess it is one ps4 then that will be fine.
Destiny is clearly a cross gen game. Maybe the ps4 version dies have slightly better aa or af?
So they should have just let the Xbone version run like shit instead of trying to make it as playable and great experience as you can get on the PS4? Most people are only gonna have one version, what difference does it make if they look and run similar.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Really awesome news
It is hard to understand why people can't be happy unless what they have is better than what someone else has. It's actually kind of disgusting.
They will when ps4 releases exclusives.
Bungie probably doesnt see any benefit in busting their arse trying to eek out a few more p's for the ps4.
I do not think many people are mad but more disappointed that they did not even bother to do the bare minimum to make use of the performance headroom.
That is what most seem to be saying, for barely any dev cost* they could have tapped into that extra power by just upping a couple of settings in the settings file. Not the most eye catching way of using the power, or the most efficient but perfectly acceptable for a cross gen game.
* Seriously if you game on a PC how long does it take you to change the AA and AF settings in a game? It takes seconds with a quick test to make sure performance is still OK.
Zombie James
Banned
So a $500M budget and they leave a 40% (more or less) performance advantage on the table? Doesn't look good for Bungie.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122612599&postcount=554
Someone has some explaining to do.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122612599&postcount=554
Someone has some explaining to do.
RowdyReverb
Member
I'm not arguing that the XB1 is more powerful than the PS4, just that it's close enough to not affect game design. The PS4 is a more powerful machine, yes, but it's not like it's a full generation ahead than the XB1. Overall game design will not suffer because of the power gap; cross-platform games will just have slightly better IQ on the PS4.
Why, what is the amount? I'm seeing a handful of posters making unreasonable assertions about parity swiftly followed by a tidal wave of over defensive XB1 fans responding to those same handful ad nauseum :/
Better IQ and on occasion double the framerate apparently, as seen in several games already (Tomb Raider DE, Soul Suspect) in addition to notable framerate advantages in other multiplatform titles like BF4. It's a significant difference between the two in terms of raw power, that much isn't really up for debate. The only real question pertains to how much or little said additional power actually gets used by developers.
Leafhopper
Banned
The best experience one can have with a game shouldn't be how taxing the game is on the hardware. It should be how much one enjoys it.
Ok then, the PS4 has more headroom. What kind of differences do you think we would have seen if Bungie had optimized the game better on PS4?
While there is a difference in power between these consoles, it's not as drastic as prior generations.
EDIT: I do think there should have been an unlocked frame rate option though.
Night Angel
Member
^I was personally hoping for better AA/AF. I didn't expect them to spend a humongous amount of time to make changes, but some basic IQ upgrades would be welcome and relatively easy to implement.
So we'll have parity for current gen only titles, despite the significant power scandals of the PS4? Because that's how your post reads.
Zombie James
Banned
What? That gap between the PS4 and Xbone is far more significant than it was between the PS3 and 360. It's been well documented by this point.
Mr Moose
Member
This part doesn't make sense.
Sometimes I agree with you.
Sometimes I don't.
I don't agree with your terrible strawman. Stop doing it people, it's an awful way to converse.
Someone should answer why the 360 game looks a LOT better than the PS3 version.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Bungie just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about technical parity (I'm an expert), but resolution and frame rate are huge parts of it. It's not like last generation where you can become successful by being releasing two versions that are basically the same. This is the console war, where the other guy's technical numbers matters more than yours. If you screw someone over on the PS4, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the Playstation owners, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Destiny for either system, nor will they purchase any of Bungie's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Bungie has alienated an entire market with this move. This is how you thank us, Bungie? This is how you thank Playstation and its fans for sticking their neck out for you and defending your game on the vicious, war-torn forums?
Square, publicly apologize and make the Xbox One version of Destiny significantly worse or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about technical parity (I'm an expert), but resolution and frame rate are huge parts of it. It's not like last generation where you can become successful by being releasing two versions that are basically the same. This is the console war, where the other guy's technical numbers matters more than yours. If you screw someone over on the PS4, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the Playstation owners, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Destiny for either system, nor will they purchase any of Bungie's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Bungie has alienated an entire market with this move. This is how you thank us, Bungie? This is how you thank Playstation and its fans for sticking their neck out for you and defending your game on the vicious, war-torn forums?
Square, publicly apologize and make the Xbox One version of Destiny significantly worse or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Graphically, these multiplatform games look very similar. Resolution and frame rate have been the big differentiator so far this gen outside of a few games.
Some differences I've found -
I'm not going to be too hung up on this but I do wonder if there's a slight difference in the implementation of AO. I can't find any differences as obvious as this anywhere else so whatever.
X1 image is the slightly darker one - pay attention to the abdomen and the top part of the head.
Something weird of found is the differences in shadow quality between the resolution bumps for X1.
Here's an improvement in shadow quality concurrent with the res bump (along with a slight increase in FOV as well) -
Conversely, here is an example where shadow quality went down with the res bump. DF puts the blame on "dynamic lighting" but I disagree. The shadows are still in the same position. (Crushed blacks got improved as well).
I'm going to guess this decrease in shadow quality happens when the game does the cinematic camera pan around the area?
I'm not going to be too hung up on this but I do wonder if there's a slight difference in the implementation of AO. I can't find any differences as obvious as this anywhere else so whatever.
X1 image is the slightly darker one - pay attention to the abdomen and the top part of the head.
Something weird of found is the differences in shadow quality between the resolution bumps for X1.
Here's an improvement in shadow quality concurrent with the res bump (along with a slight increase in FOV as well) -
Conversely, here is an example where shadow quality went down with the res bump. DF puts the blame on "dynamic lighting" but I disagree. The shadows are still in the same position. (Crushed blacks got improved as well).
I'm going to guess this decrease in shadow quality happens when the game does the cinematic camera pan around the area?
Because Bungie has far more experience making games on the 360?
RowdyReverb
Member
Re-read my post. I specifically said that the PS4 would have better IQ. That means no parity. I'm just saying that the XB1 isn't some albatross around the necks of developers whose vision could only be realized if they didn't have to worry about the power gap.
retrogamer84
Member
Equal experiences are a next-gen only feature?
DF should be banned from GAF. If people would judge by themselves, they wouldn't notice any differences in most games on both systems.
I don't get through all this argueing. Destiny is a beautiful and enjoyable game.
DF is making people not enjoying it. They're just describing the differences, but it's not helping at all.
Think about it.
I don't get through all this argueing. Destiny is a beautiful and enjoyable game.
DF is making people not enjoying it. They're just describing the differences, but it's not helping at all.
Think about it.
I honestly have no idea how you got that from my post. I'd imagine they didn't wait until the Xbox One version was done and dusted before attempting to optimise it. Besides, if we're going to that strict, you could claim that one platform is causing pretty much every multiplat to be delayed. They tend to go out on the same date, and I doubt it's because the stars just magically align for that to happen by chance.
I love that the existence of Tomb Raider (where both version even had different developers) is used as an objective measure of the performance differences between the machines, yet any game that performs closer is simply the devs being cunts, lol. I suppose Bayonetta proves that the 360 was nearly 30fps better than the PS3 too.
That's one theory. It doesn't answer the people's arguments as to why it's okay to have parity across multiplatform releases though.
Apparently.
These threads get traffic and are interesting. It's not up to you as to what should be banned on GAF.
We have real numbers as to the difference between the two consoles. We don't need to compare game by game.
Sounds pretty healthy, dude. Good stuff.
Whilst my glib manner may not have been entirely ingenuous, it is pretty crazy seeing people angry about this. Who gives a fuck if this title doesn't demonstrate the full power of the PS4? It looks, runs, and plays well. Job done. Wait for a big first party title if you want to swoon over fancy visuals, there will be plenty of them.
RowdyReverb
Member
Conversely, here is an example where shadow quality went down with the res bump. DF puts the blame on "dynamic lighting" but I disagree. The shadows are still in the same position. (Crushed blacks got improved as well).
I'm going to guess this decrease in shadow quality happens when the game does the cinematic camera pan around the area?
It's odd how the sharpness of the shadows are switched in these two examples. In one, the shadows got softer since the beta, but in the other the shadows got sharper. Softer shadows are the goal, right?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
So people wanted Bungie to rework the AA solution exclusively on the PS4 version in the last few months instead of ironing out bugs and finalizing the game? Frame rate was never going to be 60fps, unless they could have gotten it locked, so that is probably why that didn't materialize.
That just didn't sound like something that would realistically happen. I personally think you're expecting too much from what is essentially a last gen game.
Maybe a better solution would have been for the MS engineers (those funny technical fellows) to help with the PS4 version as well?
...
Either way, not that I'm getting the game, but it's good to see such a solid performance boost in such a short amount of time. I, like many others, expected this bump to come at the expense of the frame-rate; so it is quite impressive that they pulled it off. Diablo 3 as well, that game plays fantastically for the most part.
That just didn't sound like something that would realistically happen. I personally think you're expecting too much from what is essentially a last gen game.
Maybe a better solution would have been for the MS engineers (those funny technical fellows) to help with the PS4 version as well?
...
Either way, not that I'm getting the game, but it's good to see such a solid performance boost in such a short amount of time. I, like many others, expected this bump to come at the expense of the frame-rate; so it is quite impressive that they pulled it off. Diablo 3 as well, that game plays fantastically for the most part.
I wasn't aware it was that bad, I thought it was essentially 900p v 1080p which is a fair enough gap when you consider the power gap
Look how long this thread is. People care. Why do you care about iOS and Vita so much? Who gives a fuck? Seems to be some pretty silly logic. People care about different things.
It's not just visuals, Destiny would have been great at 60 fps for instance. It would be a game changer in terms of MP especially.
If you "don't get" why we have threads like DF or any other technical threads for that matter, you're more than welcome to ignore them.
Also, if DF makes people not enjoy their games, then they're too emotionally invested.
Both versions have dynamic lod shadows. If you stand and spin around they will be worse than if you sit still.
how do you figure? parity sucks if you've got the more powerful system.
Dictator93
Member
It depends. A shadow should follow the laws of umbra penumbra to look the best. Just because a shadow is sharp or diffused does not make it more realistic.
This game does not use proper penumbra though. So I assume either the changed the shadow cascade difference since beta, or they actually lowered the shadow resolution.
Neuromancer
Member
That's pretty deep. But if you don't care about tech stuff you should probably stay out of tech threads.
This was probably down to the poor XB1 SDK available at that time
Head.spawn
Junior Member
It wasn't, the beta ran smooth on Xbox One.. albeit at 900p.
Unless of course he considers 900p "running like shit". I think it's a bit of an exaggeration, while it wasn't as nice looking as the PS4 beta, it was certainly looked pretty darned good.
Yup, but those numbers don't explicitly state "around double the framerate, with some extra bells and whistles" like some of these posts citing Tomb Raider claim it definitely translates to.
Zombie James
Banned
Maybe it's best that Bungie didn't do a PC version. You'd end up with a 750 Ti performing exactly the same as a 780 and all hell would break loose.
ethomaz
Banned
Did you asked to be banned last gen? Or it is just "I don't like what I see so it needs to banned" lol
Edit - Forget my question... you are Junior yet
Zombie James
Banned
When one console is ~40% more powerful, parity isn't an accomplishment; it's a failure.
King Beyond the wall
Member
The concept of 'aiming for parity' between versions makes sense if the two consoles are similar in power and architecturally different, but when the two machines have similar architecture and one of them is considerably more powerful (40%) it doesn't make sense.
I know Xbox only owners won't want to hear this, but with the Xbox One and PS4, complete parity should not be a thing, and if it is the only conclusion can be that the developers have deliberately decided not to push the PS4. Whether or not this is to deliberately to have parity between consoles (or if it is budgetary) is another debate.
I know Xbox only owners won't want to hear this, but with the Xbox One and PS4, complete parity should not be a thing, and if it is the only conclusion can be that the developers have deliberately decided not to push the PS4. Whether or not this is to deliberately to have parity between consoles (or if it is budgetary) is another debate.
So essentially 'the worst case against Bungie' is they sat on their hands whilst MS worked on closing the gap on PS4 version.
I can't see MS doing this on every game, be interesting to see how many more get such treatment.