ViolentP
Member
My opinion, 4K is not worth it if IQ is a mess. It's another level of bad prioritization.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro vs PC 4K
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
My opinion, 4K is not worth it if IQ is a mess. It's another level of bad prioritization.
CyberPunked
Member
FalsettoVibe
Member
A lot of people in this thread are being ridiculous....
A $400 4.2TF machine looks slightly worse than a 6TF+ PC that would probably cost double the price......and you are shocked and appalled.
A $400 4.2TF machine looks slightly worse than a 6TF+ PC that would probably cost double the price......and you are shocked and appalled.
Ah ok my bad, cause I was gonna say we had no way of assuming it wouldn't have a 4K player lol.
Yeah I'm guilty of hyping it up myself. I was hoping for 1080/60fps modes.
LukasTaves
Member
I've seen this article where they interview a few devs regarding ps4 pro development.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20160910006/
Basically, the memory increase is so low we won't be seeing improved models or textures. The bandwidth increase even with compression improvements is also not enough for extra AF (when rendering in 2x1080p for 4k upscaling), as is the increasing in processing power. No extra tessellation, but we should expect smoother lods because they might use shader based lod to improve popin.
Basically, it seems ps4 is pretty much capable of only running ps4 games at twice the resolution and more stable framerates, but not improve it any further.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999024/20160910006/
Basically, the memory increase is so low we won't be seeing improved models or textures. The bandwidth increase even with compression improvements is also not enough for extra AF (when rendering in 2x1080p for 4k upscaling), as is the increasing in processing power. No extra tessellation, but we should expect smoother lods because they might use shader based lod to improve popin.
Basically, it seems ps4 is pretty much capable of only running ps4 games at twice the resolution and more stable framerates, but not improve it any further.
This is entirely subjective. 4K users on a PC make similar trade offs depending on what they prefer. Obviously you will not get a choice with the consoles but it is again something that each user will have to decide on what is best for them.
Some are going to want to utilise their 4K screen better for PS4 games, in which case PS4 Pro is the only way to go which will have better IQ vs PS4, others will want better fidelity so might not be so keen in some cases (since this is all quite developer dependant anyway). PC folks will have to determine similar things but based on choice of what their system capabilities are / will be going forward and what they want to prioritise, unless they have a system that is capable of doing everything
ViolentP
Member
I don't think anyone is surprised that the PC performs better. I do think many are making an argument based on that thought, however.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
The point I'm making is that folks sure go to great lengths to shit on one platform but if something else is slightly better than the one they're championing, it gets real messy real quick with tons of mental gymnastics.
To me this is a bigger difference than the one shown in the OP. The missing fire and haze effects the atmosphere of that scene/part of the game.
I wonder how the 'bells and whistles' and 60fps mode hold up. Bells and whistles mode should at least be a match for the 4K pc version outside of IQ and VXAO.
I wonder if those fire effects show up in the normal console versions? It suggests to me that the PS4 Pro version is still built off whatever version they optimized for the PS4 first and not including stuff left out from the PC version, such as the textures and extra effects.
Why 1080/60 went out the window soon as we found out about it using the Jaguar CPU. The Pro will be a great 1080/30 console that does a solid job at 4k for its specs.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But the projected 4K is way better than the current 1080p version of the game on the Xbox One.
Leafhopper
Banned
You and me both. Personally, I would have much rather paid a few bucks more (maybe $449) for a Pro with a better CPU and the horsepower to give us a standard 1080p/60fps option in future titles.
DOOM looks so good at 1080p/60fps on a plain, old vanilla PS4... I'm hoping we'll see more efforts like that from devs.
"brute force" always amuses me. What do you mean when you say that? Specifically.
They mean it's not "coded to the metal", but it still looks better because of the vastly superior hardware.
amstradcpc
Member
My point is that we wont get better fidelity if our tv is 1080p and devs only downsample a 4k image when a fullhd tv is connected, a 4k image that like this game shows can even have less effects activated than the XB1/OG PS4 version to meet the higher resolution.
I also wouldn't be surprised if this game's 4K mode is receiving less attention than other games' due to their added mode selection.
Leatherface
Member
this got a laugh out of me in RL. Will save image for future use. haha
Which isn't true either. On a 1080p display, the fidelity will be different for some games - eg RotTR has the unlocked framerate (>45fps) mode with higher fidelity that you would get on 4K mode. This is different dependant on the games and developers choices
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
"brute force" always amuses me. What do you mean when you say that? Specifically.
More money and more physical silicon/hardware?......
I did. It's good but is it "pro" good?
amstradcpc
Member
choices, not mandatory.Could be perfectly feasible all devs opt for a 4k version for all tvs.
PS4 Alright didn't land well with the focus groups.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Yeah, in the video the reviewer seems pretty impressed with the "Pro" version. There are some compromises, but that was to be expected.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I was always hoping the Neo would be more like $600 and higher end, but for a $400 machine its not bad. I'm much more interested in what it can do at 1080p than its checkerboard 4k which the hardware just doesnt feel fit for.
I've ordered one anyway
I've ordered one anyway
No lies detected.
Which exactly what I said previously. What's your point now pointing to exactly what I'm talking about. It is up to the developers to decide, but RotTR does have that option
Comparing $299 console to a $400 pro machine is not fair!
Not going to lie, the game looks overall brilliant in both formats, noticeably sharper on the PC.
But.. why does it look so blurry/soft on Pro?
Bwahahahahahaha!
But.. why does it look so blurry/soft on Pro?
Bwahahahahahaha!
wesleyshark
Banned
I found that strange as well. I have the HQ version of this footage and the cutscenes look soft but the gameplay angles look very crisp.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Can't watch the video while at work...
What's wrong with having Xbone level textures for the pro version? If running at 4K native or checkerboard, the system doesn't have enough power to match a maxed out PC @ 4K.
When the pro runs in 4K, you should expect the same level IQ as on ps4/xbone. You're using the extra power on the extra resolution and shouldn't expect extra resolution + max PC details. That's just not going to happen.
If the pro version runs at a higher resolution AND has worse IQ than ps4/xbone versions, then that would be something to talk about.
What's wrong with having Xbone level textures for the pro version? If running at 4K native or checkerboard, the system doesn't have enough power to match a maxed out PC @ 4K.
When the pro runs in 4K, you should expect the same level IQ as on ps4/xbone. You're using the extra power on the extra resolution and shouldn't expect extra resolution + max PC details. That's just not going to happen.
If the pro version runs at a higher resolution AND has worse IQ than ps4/xbone versions, then that would be something to talk about.
Dictator93
Member
Maybe it runs at a lower resolution in cutscenes like the x1 version?
In the video they say it look soft compared to the other games too so it might be something that the ROTTR devs are doing.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
15fps + capture + claim 4k60fps
"brute force" always amuses me. What do you mean when you say that? Specifically.
timmyp53
Member
In motion it looks great. Some textures look bad in screengrabs but these are some of the first results from PS4 patching. Next round of things should be better.
I think I lot of people just looked at the screengrab and ran with it from the looks of it.
And wasn't RL emphatic about how great it looks in motion? Especially at the conference?
amstradcpc
Member
well,you started replying to me it was dev dependant, and I dont say it isnt.The point i am making is I suspect devs will in their mayority dedicate one or two people to the pro version and take the cheapest/easiesr route.That would make buying the pro pointless for a 1080p tv user.
Yep, optimization should (in theory) be better for consoles than PC due to the sheer number of possible PC configurations out there. The "brute force" idea is that your PC is so beefy in comparison that it doesn't matter that the PC version may not be as optimized in a relative sense as the console version - since there's only 1 (now 2) possible hardware configs per console - because you PC is so dope that it can just power through any less-optimized code that may exist in the PC version.
Of course, the level of optimization that is done is relative per project per developer.
wonderful103
Member
There is no metal. Everyone's using APIs
Equanimity
Member
I would love to see Tomb Raider with everything turned up in the 1080p 30 mode on the pro.
ReplacementPelican
Member
This is probably what I'll be doing on the Pro most of the time anyway. I'd rather have 1080p with higher settings.
-edit-
Also, one of the first things said is that he thinks it looks pretty good on the Pro but I guess people here are either willfully ignoring that because of a pre-determined opinion or they didn't actually watch the video (which is probably about as bad).
grandwizard
Member
I thought this 'coded to the metal' stuff was dead when pretty much every multi platform game since this generation started performed in line with what the hardware would point to in relation to the console versions. Like for a while every DF thread had a section about it until people stopped caring and now it's back again.