Lol @ waste of resources. I'd rather play a game at 5k/30fps than 4k/60fps if the IQ is terrible otherwise (which is very often to be the case with games that lack a good TAA solution). And don't get me started on trying to do 144fps when the resolution is a laughably low 1440p. Now that's what I'd call a waste of resources.
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DOOM Lead Programmer: 4K Gaming On Xbox Scorpio Is A Waste of Resources
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
lol this thread has a ton of embarrassing posts.
Duh. 4k is just another reason for manufactures to sell more TV's. I mean it isn't a gimmick like 3D TV but is it really needed? There was a huge jump in fidelity from 480i to 1080p. Not saying there aren't improvements to be had in 4k but I remain unimpressed. To me it definitely isn't something that I need nor will go out to the store and buy a 4k TV.
That being said, I'd much rather have true 1080p/60FPS with all the eye candy turned on to Ultra. No compromises.
That being said, I'd much rather have true 1080p/60FPS with all the eye candy turned on to Ultra. No compromises.
I agree with the DOOM lead programmer. It would be better if developers used the extra horsepower afforded by Scorpio and PS4 Pro for better, more detailed graphics at 1080p.
And everyone can agree that TFlops is not enough of a gauge for judging how well a platform can handle native 4K gaming. It is the entire GPU pipeline (ROPs, pixel fill rate, texture units, shader units / compute performance, color compression, efficiency, etc) that needs to be taken into account, along with memory bandwidth, as well as the CPU's performance.
It's really going to take another round of consoles (PS5 Xbox5) with new, faster, more powerful CPUs, High Bandwidth Memory (HBM2 or better) in addition to GPUs that are significantly more powerful & efficient than Scorpio's, in order to do both native 4K resolution combined with a big leap in graphics, and run next gen game engines, physics, etc.
i.e. 2019 / 2020 on 7nm FinFET.
refresh in 2022/2023 on 5nm EUV.
And everyone can agree that TFlops is not enough of a gauge for judging how well a platform can handle native 4K gaming. It is the entire GPU pipeline (ROPs, pixel fill rate, texture units, shader units / compute performance, color compression, efficiency, etc) that needs to be taken into account, along with memory bandwidth, as well as the CPU's performance.
It's really going to take another round of consoles (PS5 Xbox5) with new, faster, more powerful CPUs, High Bandwidth Memory (HBM2 or better) in addition to GPUs that are significantly more powerful & efficient than Scorpio's, in order to do both native 4K resolution combined with a big leap in graphics, and run next gen game engines, physics, etc.
i.e. 2019 / 2020 on 7nm FinFET.
refresh in 2022/2023 on 5nm EUV.
Yep...and dont forget,even though its close,the PRO is not native 4K....
SeeNoWeevil
Member
5k30 lol
Massive static resolution, nil motion resolution. Render all those pixels and then smear them all away in blur. Sounds perfect for gaming.
Lol, indeed.
I just want HDR, that's a much bigger improvement and it's almost 0 added cost for the leading game engines.
But there ain't no TV with HDR @1080p.
I'll tell you what's going to happen with this 4K craze.
Games will be targeting 30fps, that's what is going to happen. Since it will be hard to get your game 4K 60fps, devs will shoot for 30hz rendering. Since they wouldn't want the CPU to idle, they'll design CPU time to match that 30hz, so it will be damn hard to get a game to run at 60fps without doubling the CPU grunt, once they go down that path. It's going to be PS3 all over again. Most of that precious power will be wasted on rendering more of the same pixels.
1080p is the sweet spot for view size / distance in most homes. Surely with superb anti aliasing, a 1080p image can blow the socks of people still.
Malcolm9
Member
But it does play some games at native 4K...
Davey Cakes
Member
I just don't get this whole 4K thing for gaming.
I mean, 1080p/60fps STANDARD still isn't nailed down in every game so why are we chasing 4K? Higher-end options are nice but why does console gaming have to accelerate so much in visuals without everything else catching up first? If resources are better spent elsewhere then fuck 4K. Just focus on making games run like butter.
I mean, 1080p/60fps STANDARD still isn't nailed down in every game so why are we chasing 4K? Higher-end options are nice but why does console gaming have to accelerate so much in visuals without everything else catching up first? If resources are better spent elsewhere then fuck 4K. Just focus on making games run like butter.
pixelation
Member
And he is right.
TheSpecialOne
Banned
As someone who owned a gtx 1080, I agree.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
Can't you have both a 4k mode and a better looking 1080p mode though? I thought some were already doing that?
Yep..just a few though like Tomb Raider but a lot will from now on...(I hope)
Not sure I understand this one...
Lol. I used a 120hz lightboost monitor for almost two years, and even my current one can do backlight strobing (which I use for fast-paced games I play such as BF1) & it destroys 60fps in terms of motion clarity. I know exactly the difference motion blur can make, and I'd still pick 5k/30fps with good IQ over 60fps with flickering/shimmering/pixel crawling any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Up until a month ago yeah a would've wanted a full blown 1080 experience. Now with Pro and my 4K I can't go back to 1080 no matter how bananas it looks.
Even Skyrim a lastgen basic ass game with little in way of effects blows me away in 4K.
Haven't played Tomb Raider yet but if you took a poll of 4K owners and what they are playing, the 4K or maxed 1080 , I bet the toned down 4K is played 90%of the time.
Even Skyrim a lastgen basic ass game with little in way of effects blows me away in 4K.
Haven't played Tomb Raider yet but if you took a poll of 4K owners and what they are playing, the 4K or maxed 1080 , I bet the toned down 4K is played 90%of the time.
BouncyFrag
Member
I'm still really happy with my 1080p tv with the X1 and PS4. Doom, Rachet/Clank, and TF2 look and play incredible.
Yeah, this is where I am. If the Scorpio isn't at least as focused on 4K as the Pro is, I won't even consider the platform probably.
Electret
Member
Devs should use the extra horsepower as they see fit. Some upscaling implementations will allow increased eye candy and a presentation that rivals native 4K yet renders somewhere below it. COD IW on PS4 Pro - from what I've seen - is a good example of this. Really incredible results with high sharpness and minimal edge artifacts.
Man, I'm getting mighty tired of seeing this. Provide a source or don't make the claim in the first place (you can't - Phil or anyone else never "basically confirmed" it).
Man, I'm getting mighty tired of seeing this. Provide a source or don't make the claim in the first place (you can't - Phil or anyone else never "basically confirmed" it).
For games that run at 1080p on current Xbox One I think it is possible, with no other upgrades.
For sub-1080p or dynamic resolution games on current Xbox One, not so much.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
If it doesn't end up stopping a great game from being as beautiful as the devs envision, I'm all for 4K. Other than that, I definitely prefer devs target 1080p and simply make a more visual impressive game. 1080p will kind of always be the best use of resources on Scorpio even if it really ends up as monstrous as people hope with a Zen CPU.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Ugh, read the article?
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
Not only this, but i'd bet the vast majority of people playing on 4k sets would have bought cheap low end Chinese displays which will never be properly calibrated.
It'll be game dependant but provided nothing else changes, a straight bump to 4k isn;t out of the question.
Fifa is now running at native 4k on the Pro and doesn't drop a frame from 60. And the Pro is only 2.4x more powerful than the PS4. Scorpio will have a much larger advantage over Xbone.
LordRaptor
Member
Sony want to sell you a new TV, MS don't want to get left behind in a PR specs war
Humdinger
Member
And yet, there will be an inexorable push for 4K gaming, an inordinate amount of emphasis put on whether games are 4K or not, and lots of arguments around whether a game is rendered in native 4K or checkerboard (never mind that you can't tell the difference unless you're two feet away). Meanwhile, people with 4K sets (a growing subset) will be clamoring for 4K games. Game sites, including this one, will continually focus on it. Developers know gamers will be swayed more by "4K" than by announcement of better 1080p modes. They will push for 4K or have to deal with negative press or gamer reactions.
Coming from PC, i would be much more tempted to pick up a Scorpio if it was targeting 1080p60 than 4k20.
Unfortunately this will be the truth:
Unfortunately this will be the truth:
Sorry your majesty. Enjoy all that detail when panning the camera at 30fps.
*Goes back to playing 240p/60fps titles on SNES*
IncognitoPanda
Member
I think MS knows power could be spent better elsewhere, but they want to distinct themselves in the console market. PS4Pro is a thing in the middle with no concrete benchmark selling point. Not that the Scorpio will truly be either, but they may distinguish themselves as the "4K console" to the casual audience.
That's clearly why all ms first party titles will be 4k for Scorpio when it launches. It's so they can put a sticker on the box that says 4k
That's clearly why all ms first party titles will be 4k for Scorpio when it launches. It's so they can put a sticker on the box that says 4k
Cynn
Member
I agree. Aside from VR I've not seen any bells and whistles from my Pro at 1080p. I hope with Scorpio that MS adopts a PC-like medium (XB1) and high (Scorpio) graphic settings option for devs. Super sampling just isn't giving me the visual gains I expect from a refresh.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think I actually might prefer higher resolution over image quality, but I rate framerate higher than both.
framerate > resolution > IQ
If it is a singleplayer game, I care less.
framerate > resolution > IQ
If it is a singleplayer game, I care less.
*Implies that your regular 60fps has good motion clarity*
60fps
120fps
120fps with lightboost
Here's a helpful chart to anyone who thinks just because they use a regular 144hz display they have good motion clarity. No, your motion blur is still shit compared to anything that uses a strobe backlight technique. Brute forcing that many frames to achieve a marginal better clarity is the definition of a waste of resources.
*Implies that your regular 60fps has good motion clarity*
60fps
120fps
120fps with lightboost
Here's a helpful chart to anyone who thinks just because they use a regular 144hz dsiplay they have good motion clarity. No, your motion blur is still shit compared to anything that uses a strobe backlight technique. Brute forcing that many frames to achieve a marginal better clarity is the definition of a waste of resources.
[/QUOTE]
Probably playing it on a CRT lol
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I'd take that bet all day long for first party games.
StrategyFan
Member
4k rendering is higher fidelity for 1080p tvs, especially so in actual motion instead of in still screenshots
but there might be cheaper ways to achieve that than supersampling
but there might be cheaper ways to achieve that than supersampling
Electret
Member
I appreciate the citations, but I don't think his language requires Scorpio to necessarily be different in all three categories of CPU, GPU, and memory. It's really too general to get a good read on the precise hardware differences, so I don't agree that this supports the idea Spencer has basically confirmed a new CPU.
That said, Scorpio may very well have a new CPU. If it is new, I'd say other options like Puma may be on the table.
