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[NekoFever]

Why do people only mention the PS3 when talking up Sony's first party efforts?

Sony was amazing with its internal developing / publishing work from day one.

From Jumping Flash, to Twisted Metal, to Syphon Filter to Parapa to Wild Arms to Siren to Mark of Kri to Rise to Honor to Rogue Galaxy to Dark Cloud to.......


They had the best first party philosophy the day the PSone came out as far as I'm concerned.

I always remember Sony in the PS1 era having a reputation for being all about the third-party stuff. You had the occasional gem like PaRappa, and Gran Turismo was a big deal, but what you really bought a PlayStation for was Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy/Square, Tekken/Namco, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, etc. And although it stands up quite favourably today, it was being compared to Nintendo and Sega at their best.

 

[mrklaw]

You aren't reading the entire "quote" nor the entire situation regarding what was going on including Boyes saying they had no DRM system in place because no one had asked for it. They had no system in place with any retailers. Calling it a quote is stretching reality as well.

A lot of this is as I said anyway - ridiculous BS because it is all "I heard this" and "so and so" heard that. Even CBOAT missed quite a few predictions. Most often the sources are providers of anything but fact. What does work? The Sign of Four and removing the possible with all that entails. These "insiders" tend to get just enough correct and that is what people remember. As I said before even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

One of the biggest tells was Sony looking to replicate the success of the PS2 and that meant duplicating the steps and methods used for that console. Sony knew from pulling the PS3 out of the gutter this generation that freeing gamers was key.

This is all machts nichts since it is extremely doubtful your comment was made out of genuine investigative curiosity. Your post history and unflappable support of Microsoft in the light of their head stabbing gamers reveals as much.



As regards Sony wanting this to happen I have no doubt they are glad that the backlash occurred. However, to suppose a billion dollar publicly traded corporation, one that has been very methodical on their road to recovery sat around and said lets wing it and hedge bets on someone at Gaf starting a no DRM campaign is far beyond the pale of belief. I am not saying that is your point either, rather I am stating this for clarity. Unless Mortimer was working for them then the theory falls apart. Since Hirai assumed the reigns Sony has been very calculating in their decisions and such a theory without a situation that reveals solid planning does not fit the model.

I wholeheartedly agree that it would have been absolutely brilliant marketing but I do not think Sony themselves were planning DRM up until the Microsoft presser, no matter how much some people on this board and elsewhere are dying for it to be true. Someone may have brought it up in a board meeting but that does not equate to planning a direction.

Seriously, since the two divergent paths at E3 between MS and Sony were revealed at E3 I have borne witness to some of the most desperate leaps beyond reason I have witnessed in my career as a gamer and those that know me are aware I am older than most on this board.

The fact remains that until certain persons in the industry accept that gamers paying $59 for a poorly developed overly advertised game is the root of the used game problem the DRM issue will continually raise its ugly head. Great games are the best defense against used games but of course the last people publishers are willing to blame are themselves.

I think the only area where Sony may have been quick to respond to the developing situation is the section where they emphasise the lack of DRM and the freedom you have to sell games etc. That didn't feel like something you'd have in a standard press conference, but with the backlash against DRM it is something they could put in at short notice and get a good return on. So I doubt they changed their actual approach to DRM at short notice, but they probably changed how they communicated it at E3.

 

[Melchiah]

Realistically you should never buy hardware at launch anyway. It will inevitably take 1-2 years before the hardware is actually stable enough for retail sale. Though they'll never tell you that.

I don't think that's universally true. My launch PS2 lasted six years, after it started having problems reading discs, and my 60GB PS3 lasted nearly five years before it got the dreaded YLOD. It was a rather loud from the beginning though.

 

[alterego]

Downloading now.
Man it's slow 7% at the moment.

 

[ShogunDarius]

When does the android store update, it's still showing the last issue

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Realistically you should never buy hardware at launch anyway. It will inevitably take 1-2 years before the hardware is actually stable enough for retail sale. Though they'll never tell you that.

This is completely untrue. Launch hardware before the optical disc era was rock solid, mainly because there were pretty much no moving parts you could break except the connector for the game cartridge.

Then optical discs happened, and RRoD, and YLoD. I just hope that Sony has learned lessons from 3 generations of faulty optical drives, including the legendary upside-down PS1 trick, the laser you twiddled yourself on PS2, and the PSP which would fling the UMD out of it's slot if you turned it upside-down while it was reading the disc. I also hope that both Sony and especially MS have learned how important it is to design a proper cooling system for their consoles.

 

[SymbolicGamer]

Here's where I'm thinking they're going with this:


EDGE 257: This Is Your Next Console

[insert picture of Xbox One]

With different editors giving their opinion on why you should get an Xbox One.

This is just to get you to buy their magazine.

Have you guys learned nothing from The Death of Captain America?

 

[iamshadowlark]

In a world where Nintendo didn't exist I would agree.

I really don't think Nintendo had the best philosophy at all. Their myopic strategy is part of the reason they are in the spot they are now.

 

[nofi]

I've subscribed to this magazine for... 6 years. Never had an issue come late. Last two have been more or less on the street date. I think something has changed in terms of their production schedule.

Yep, me too. Getting fed up with Edge of late, even when it finally arrives most of the content has already appeared online.

 

[ChorusLindarr]

I really don't think Nintendo had the best philosophy at all. Their myopic strategy is part of the reason they are in the spot they are now.

This poster speaks the truth.

Alot of gamers like to put Nintendo on a pedestal but since the N64, their first party efforts on home consoles have been at best too safe, and at worse incredibly weak.

Since the N64 they have never made a game that has made me want to go out and buy a Nintendo console. I think that speaks volumes on its own. And given the current performance of WiiU, I guess that's also true for the majority of gamers.

 

[redcrayon]

I really don't think Nintendo had the best philosophy at all. Their myopic strategy is part of the reason they are in the spot they are now.

Nintendo as a first-party developer usually comes up with the goods. Wii and 3DS have awesome FP games, as do most of their previous machines, even if the WiiU is lacking.

They have many problems right now (including scheduling) but the quality of their FP output recently is as good as ever as far as I can see.

 

[twobear]

Since the N64 they have never made a game that has made me want to go out and buy a Nintendo console. I think that speaks volumes on its own. And given the current performance of WiiU, I guess that's also true for the majority of gamers.

Uh, what? That does speak volumes—about you, not Nintendo's output.

 

[redcrayon]

This poster speaks the truth.

Alot of gamers like to put Nintendo on a pedestal but since the N64, their first party efforts on home consoles have been at best too safe, and at worse incredibly weak.

Since the N64 they have never made a game that has made me want to go out and buy a Nintendo console. I think that speaks volumes on its own. And given the current performance of WiiU, I guess that's also true for the majority of gamers.

The current dire performance of WiiU has no bearing on the quality of their output on the Wii- it was almost as good as their SNES output, I don't really see how you can call a lineup containing Mario Galaxy 1+2, Skyward Sword, Wii Sports, DKCR, FE Radiant Dawn, Metroid Prime 3 and Xenoblade etc 'weak' or 'safe' compared to other developers, even if Smash and Other M were a bit lacking compared to previous games. On top of that, the 3DS lineup is just awesome.

They are a ridiculously prolific company (which makes the WiiU HD development troubles worrying) , and as such make plenty of missteps on most of their platforms, the thing is that people who like the hardware remember the good games, and those that don't only remember the bad ones.

It's easier to build a narrative of decline of quality rather than look at the multiple other reasons they are struggling though.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Here's where I'm thinking they're going with this:


EDGE 257: This Is Your Next Console

[insert picture of Xbox One]

With different editors giving their opinion on why you should get an Xbox One.

This is just to get you to buy their magazine.

Have you guys learned nothing from The Death of Captain America?

I don't think this will happen. Because if they wanted to do this, they could simply make an issue with 2 sides, PS4 on one side and if you turn it around, Xbox One one the other side.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

Alot of gamers like to put Nintendo on a pedestal but since the N64, their first party efforts on home consoles have been at best too safe, and at worse incredibly weak.

Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin and even Wind Waker (cell shading) say hello.

 

[alterego]

I know you can't just post entire scans / screens of articles but while it's downloading below is a screen from the free preview of the issue:

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I think the only area where Sony may have been quick to respond to the developing situation is the section where they emphasise the lack of DRM and the freedom you have to sell games etc. That didn't feel like something you'd have in a standard press conference, but with the backlash against DRM it is something they could put in at short notice and get a good return on. So I doubt they changed their actual approach to DRM at short notice, but they probably changed how they communicated it at E3.

Well that's definitely true. Why else would you have that slide Tretton presented at E3? The one that said "You can sell your used games on PS4!".

E3 is generally not a time to go on stage and shout "Yeah! Status quo!", but this time it was. And that's down to both Microsofts decision to impose restrictive DRM and the publich backlash.

 

[Takuya]

Maybe. And maybe House is not being entirely honest, since even Sony's own Adam Boyes admitted they only "locked in" with gamers' demands when famousmortimer's campaign was already going strong.

Yoshida posted that #DRM on PSVita when the campaign didn't exist or well early in the #PS4NoDRM movement, so I'm sure they were already well locked down on their policies, they just let the free coverage continue.

 

[twobear]

I really don't think Nintendo had the best philosophy at all. Their myopic strategy is part of the reason they are in the spot they are now.

Yeah but we're talking about since the PSX days. You can't tell me with a straight face that Sony's first party stuff, or their 'strategy', was better back then. Nintendo more-or-less invented most of modern gaming with their first-party N64 stuff.

 

[borghe]

Issue is up now on iPad. If anyone wants it for free, you can sign up for the free trial. It gives you the current issue and next issue for free and sets you up for recurring subscription after that ($40/year or like $18/3 months I think). Once you get your free issue (or two) you can go into your App Store account and just cancel.

For a dying industry.... I now subscribe to more magazines than I ever have at one time... Wtf? (Four for those wondering.. All in Apple Newsstand)

 

[Verendus]

Or maybe you shouldn't take PR at face value?

In this entire situation, Andrew isn't the one who has been giving lip service. He's also right that they never considered it.

 

[Steroyd]

Yeah but we're talking about since the PSX days. You can't tell me with a straight face that Sony's first party stuff, or their 'strategy', was better back then. Nintendo more-or-less invented most of modern gaming with their first-party N64 stuff.

I disagree, what Nintendo did with the N64 was translate their franchises from 2D to 3D damn near flawlessly.

 

[borghe]

And for any remaining questions on pre-/post-180... Right from the introduction to the issue:

Even now that Microsoft has shifted its considerable bulk in an effort to resemble its competitor more closely, PS4 remains the more attractive offering.

 

[maverick40]

Issue is up now on iPad. If anyone wants it for free, you can sign up for the free trial. It gives you the current issue and next issue for free and sets you up for recurring subscription after that ($40/year or like $18/3 months I think). Once you get your free issue (or two) you can go into your App Store account and just cancel.

For a dying industry.... I now subscribe to more magazines than I ever have at one time... Wtf? (Four for those wondering.. All in Apple Newsstand)

What is the ipad version of EDGE like? I heard it looks stunning!

 

[borghe]

What is the ipad version of EDGE like? I heard it looks stunning!

The 4 mags I subscribe to are:

Entertainment Weekly - a little clicky but better than print by a ways
Edge - I can only get print from one of the local B&Ns but iPad is gorgeous.
Game Informer - ridiculously massive downloads because they include video. Of course you have complete access to all content offline then. Beyond that the format can be a little confusing.. But alright.
New Yorker - absolutely flawless. Again, better than print by a ways.

And if course comics, which again IMHO are better than print by a ways.

 

[CoG]

Trying it on the iPhone. This might hurt my eyes.

 

[dragonbane]

In this entire situation, Andrew isn't the one who has been giving lip service. He's also right that they never considered it.

Good to know Verendus

 

[toastyToast]

I know you can't just post entire scans / screens of articles but while it's downloading below is a screen from the free preview of the issue:

I can't believe they included the have you seen titanfall quote lol

 

[Jack cw]

I can't believe they included the have you seen titanfall quote lol

This so good on so many levels <3 EDGE

 

[borghe]

Ok.. So those expecting or fearing trash pieces will be disappointed (or relieved).

It basically spells out what GAF (and every other GAMING community) have been saying the entire time. I stress gaming, because obviously other areas of media have at times reacted differently. But in the core gaming community Edge isn't saying much here that the majority of those communities hasn't been saying for a couple months now.

a) Sony has done everything right. They ditched the proprietary hardware, have made their message solely "hey gamers! We're here for you!!", and reminiscent of E3 1995, came out second and announced a $100 lower price for more powerful hardware where it really matters for gamers (I.e. graphics). One funny thing they mentioned was how Sony essentially gave the message that PS4 will work best "always online", but never went so far as to highlight it.

b) MS has not sent a clear message.. Basically says at one moment "we are about entertainment" and then turns around and says "we are also about games". DRM then no DRM. always online, then not. They have cool entertainment features that could be extremely meaningful in 5 years, but not 2013 (Edge's words). Right now it's a more expensive, less powerful console with features that may or may not be commonplace down the road.

Those were the two feature articles. They DO talk about games individually later... And DO have just heaps of praise on most of XBONE's lineup including obviously and most emphatically TitanFall.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Ok.. So those expecting or fearing trash pieces will be disappointed (or relieved).

It basically spells out what GAF (and every other GAMING community) have been saying the entire time. I stress gaming, because obviously other areas of media have at times reacted differently. But in the core gaming community Edge isn't saying much here that the majority of those communities hasn't been saying for a couple months now.

a) Sony has done everything right. They ditched the proprietary hardware, have made their message solely "hey gamers! We're here for you!!", and reminiscent of E3 1995, came out second and announced a $100 lower price for more powerful hardware where it really matters for gamers (I.e. graphics). One funny thing they mentioned was how Sony essentially gave the message that PS4 will work best "always online", but never went so far as to highlight it.

b) MS has not sent a clear message.. Basically says at one moment "we are about entertainment" and then turns around and says "we are also about games". DRM then no DRM. always online, then not. They have cool entertainment features that could be extremely meaningful in 5 years, but not 2013 (Edge's words). Right now it's a more expensive, less powerful console with features that may or may not be commonplace down the road.

Those were the two feature articles. They DO talk about games individually later... And DO have just heaps of praise on most of XBONE's lineup including obviously and most emphatically TitanFall.

So the cover statements were just a way of stirring controversy and attracting attention, as I expected.

 

[ShogunDarius]

its on the android store now

 

[Metalmurphy]

Maybe. And maybe House is not being entirely honest, since even Sony's own Adam Boyes admitted they only "locked in" with gamers' demands when famousmortimer's campaign was already going strong.

You're reading that wrong... It's the exact oposite. He also confirmed that on the Giantbomb podcast.

 

[borghe]

So the cover statements were just a way of stirring controversy and attracting attention, as I expected.

Eh, sort of sort of not. It was sensational.. But here is the conclusion to the XBONE article:

Sony enters the next generation with its mistakes patched: The right price, a clear and consistent message, robust online, and friendly hardware that amounts to PC architecture in an attractive box. Seven years after PS3's disastrous debut, the generation defining mistakes are Microsoft's. 16 exclusive titles at E3 made a strong argument for One as a game console, but already the games are trapped in the shadow of Microsoft's mystical magical box that solves 100 problems you never cared about solving in the first place. Technically, creatively, morally, the world isn't ready for Xbox one, and neither is Microsoft, which has elected to pitch a convergence device that will be useful tomorrow against a PlayStation competitor whose benefits are obvious today.

 

[waypoetic]

Can't find it... Bleh.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

So the cover statements were just a way of stirring controversy and attracting attention, as I expected.

Why? The cover statements align perfectly with the facts: a gaming console with a focus on gaming, strong first party titles, and with more powerful hardware which costs $100 less than the X1, and which fixes many mistakes made before is probably the best choice for most people.

 

[Takuya]

So the cover statements were just a way of stirring controversy and attracting attention, as I expected.

There is no controversy when it reflects the general sentiment.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I can't believe they included the have you seen titanfall quote lol

They should be taken to court for that.

Much like they don't deserve your money anymore than they did 2 months ago considering what they've pulled not only with Xbone but with their whole gaming division the last 3-4 years.

Except now, they've opened up their wallet again and bought some exclusives.

Even with that said, the 360 gets quite a bit of use at my house but mainly for some XBLA games for the kids.

 

[Callibretto]

Read the dispatch section with brian howe talking about sony indie initiative, thats quite bizarre and hilarious, here's a quote from shu yoshida

'Sony contract need no longer be signed by babies' blood, the blood of any mammals will do'

 

[HoJu]

Did anyone post the review scores yet?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Did anyone post the review scores yet?

That's going to probably need it's own thread at this rate lol

 

[twobear]

I disagree, what Nintendo did with the N64 was translate their franchises from 2D to 3D damn near flawlessly.

They laid the groundwork for a lot of modern 3D gaming with stuff like Mario 64 and OOT. Not to mention Goldeneye, the game that pretty much singlehandedly demonstrated that there's space for good FPS games on consoles.

 

[borghe]

Did anyone post the review scores yet?

Coh2 7
Pvz2 9
State of decay 7
Gunpoint 8
Marvel heroes 4 (ouch)
Mario & luigi dream team 7
The swapper 7
Stickets 9
Scurvy scalawags 7
Kingdom rush frontierS 8

 

[HoJu]

Thanks.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Haha that yoshida article was crazy. Yosp is such an odd president but a lot of fun.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Article isn't really worth reading, it's the 'Sony won E3, is listening to gamers' article that we've all seen on a million other sites.

 

[StiLt]

Read the dispatch section with brian howe talking about sony indie initiative, thats quite bizarre and hilarious, here's a quote from shu yoshida

'Sony contract need no longer be signed by babies' blood, the blood of any mammals will do'

Shu is a champion. His tweets about eating Octodad (including friends and family) were pretty chuckle worthy as well.

 

[Shadders]

The two articles (XB1 and PS4) were really well balanced, I thought. Not really inkeeping with the childish fanboy baiting on the cover (which I thought was hilarious btw).

They conclude that the Xbox is a console that might be good in the future, but too many of its features are irrelevant or unusable in 2013.

 

[borghe]

Haha that yoshida article was crazy. Yosp is such an odd president but a lot of fun.

He's always reminded me of a very slightly more animated Miyamoto. Both very clearly given exposure to the west because of their personalities.

Oh the wrap up for the PS4 article (small, came after touching on Nintendo and third parties):

When the next generation of consoles arrives, the best place for players to do that will be on PS4. In turning things around, Microsoft faces the kind of challenge that once drove the mighty Sega out of the hardware business.

 

[Xun]

What bothers me the most about MS is that, nothing they announce, feels authentic.

You have this bunch of suits give a presentation to cater to the shareholders, wearing expensive business shirts, bragging about shutting down the second hand market..

Then those same people put on some 'gaming culture' Tshirts for E3 to cater to core gamers.

Who are you trying to fool? We know you're not a gamer. Stop acting/dressing like one.

Not that he plays games, but he looks like the very definition of a dudebro.