But would a parent drop $500 to play the next Dance Central or Kinectimals? Is the novelty still there the second time around? That's the big question, I'm personally leaning towards "no". Just like how Wii's along with its plethora of accessories are buried in closets across the world.
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Edge #256: Why PS4 is your next console (Shots fired, post-DRM 180)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
But would a parent drop $500 to play the next Dance Central or Kinectimals? Is the novelty still there the second time around? That's the big question, I'm personally leaning towards "no". Just like how Wii's along with its plethora of accessories are buried in closets across the world.
In the words of what is said about anything good about xbox one,
'Sony must have paid edge to release this article'
Yes there a good things about PS4 and im sure there are good points about xbox one, lets hope they share these points too.
My 2 points are i buy both consoles and i get to play all the games - game over!!!!!!!
'Sony must have paid edge to release this article'
Yes there a good things about PS4 and im sure there are good points about xbox one, lets hope they share these points too.
My 2 points are i buy both consoles and i get to play all the games - game over!!!!!!!
CouldBeWorse
Member
Kinect is BY FAR the most successful peripheral of all time. And that's despite shitty support.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
The Wii sold massive amounts to this same consumer base, and it's all dried up for the Wii U.
These sorts of experiences have come and gone and unlike CoD or Madden there's only so much they can be milked before the audience is completely gone. Unfortunately for Kinect, its usefulness in gaming doesn't span beyond those sorts of titles.
No one is buying a $500 Xbox One for Kinect 2.0
Hard to call it a peripheral when it's packed in to almost every 360 sold.
I think I good example is the plastic guitar game market. That market was red hot, then bam, the market for these products disappeared overnight. I don't believe that these motion gaming accessories have longevity.
wii balance board
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they're both technically complex to develop for, which is to be expected so not something any professional dev is going to complain about. But since the point that Edge is making is about which is the more developer-friendly, you done seem to have the moved the goalposts a fair bit in a pretty transparently disingenuous attempt to downplay any advantage for the PS4 here, which is why I can't imagine it's worth responding to the rest of your rebuttal.
Heh pretty sure the original DualShock and DualShock 3 will disagree with that. Also as was said, Kinect sales numbers are considerably misleading considering it was bundled with two out of three skus. I.e. while there are 25m Kinect units out there, there are definitely nowhere near 25m Kinect users.
Edit - yeah the Wii balance board was at 42m a year and a half ago.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/01/wii_balance_board_enters_record_books
I believe we'll see a much clearer winner this generation. The PS3's recovery was helped in part by the fact that PSN was free. There wasn't much stopping 360 owners from supplementing with a PS3, to check out the exclusives they were missing. I bought a 360 in 2006, and then picked up a PS3 in 2009.
Now both Sony and Microsoft are charging you to play online. Unless you're fine with one of your consoles being a single-player-only machine, picking up the competition out of curiosity will mean a second subscription. That's fine for GAF members, who seem in general to be more interested in single-player games, but for consumers generally, the situation seems to point to a lot less supplementation.
Now both Sony and Microsoft are charging you to play online. Unless you're fine with one of your consoles being a single-player-only machine, picking up the competition out of curiosity will mean a second subscription. That's fine for GAF members, who seem in general to be more interested in single-player games, but for consumers generally, the situation seems to point to a lot less supplementation.
Whiteshirt
Member
Sony is charging online for certain games that choose to hide behind the PS+ paywall. If you're looking for a F2P game, like your average MOBA, you don't need PS+ to play multiplayer since they're paying and providing their own servers and probably wouldn't want to limit their userbase seeing they're F2P. Its a pretty sensible stance all things considered.
Sony isn't hiding media apps behind the paywall either so the system itself has a lot of functionality without PS+. If you want to play Destiny or the next Call of Duty multiplayer then sure you probably need PS+ but for games like Dark Souls (has no dedicated server IIRC), you probably don't need any PS+ account at all.
That's part of the reason why its looking to be a pretty good system all round, especially compared to the Xbox One. Its cheaper, probably more powerful if we go by GPUs on the same architecture, fixed the triggers on the controller, has policies from the start that aren't confusing or stupid, and still has better thought out policies than the current Xbox 180 because its maintaining the status quo and changing most of the stupid policies (i.e. self-publishing) for the better.
That could potentially hurt xbone because kinect 1 didn't really work. I mean it puts me off wanting one.
Based on GAF, outside of the vocal, core supporters, post-180, I've seen more people state they still don't trust / won't support MS, rather than jump on board the Xbone train again.
REMEMBER CITADEL has been a constant vocal core supporter of all things Xbox, ever since the Durango threads started. There was never a chance he wouldn't support the next Xbox, regardless of what form it took,
your post is BY FAR very inaccurate.
Pound_lb003
Member
That really is the truth. Microsoft have kidded themselves that Kinect is important, because it sold through bundles. I buy Odel Paso Fajita packs for the wraps and breadcrumb seasoning... I never use the sour cream sauce or salsa.
The reality being that it's been received in much the same way as the Wii.
The reality being that it's been received in much the same way as the Wii.
From a sales / adoption rate perspective, Kinect was undoubtedly a success.
By any other metric, including Kinect game sales, it's a massive turd. The technology just didn't work as well as it was implied by MS. Most of the Kinect game were abject (hampered by poor tech and a casual shovelware approach to game design), and the sales of Kinect only games have tailed off to nothing.
I've stating this in other threads, but MS have been nuts to not show of Kinect 2 with actual games. Rather than force it down everyone's throats and expect them to swallow the PR guff about how great Kinect is, they need actual game demonstrations to sell it. If the new tech is as good as the claims state, the games should speak for themselves.The Kinect games should justify the $100 cost increase. Non-game tech demos just don't cut it.
Either the great Kinect software just doesn't exists, or again the tech is not as good as MS are making out and will just be useful for simple party games, gesture navigation, Skype and voice comms.
By any other metric, including Kinect game sales, it's a massive turd. The technology just didn't work as well as it was implied by MS. Most of the Kinect game were abject (hampered by poor tech and a casual shovelware approach to game design), and the sales of Kinect only games have tailed off to nothing.
I've stating this in other threads, but MS have been nuts to not show of Kinect 2 with actual games. Rather than force it down everyone's throats and expect them to swallow the PR guff about how great Kinect is, they need actual game demonstrations to sell it. If the new tech is as good as the claims state, the games should speak for themselves.The Kinect games should justify the $100 cost increase. Non-game tech demos just don't cut it.
Either the great Kinect software just doesn't exists, or again the tech is not as good as MS are making out and will just be useful for simple party games, gesture navigation, Skype and voice comms.
CouldBeWorse
Member
I should have qualified that better
Kinect is its own mini-platform like Sega CD, 32X, 64DD (lol), Move, etc. When you start throwing out game-specific peripherals, Guitar Hero guitars probably outsold even the balance board.
Also, you can't discount the bundled sales. That's just dumb. Customers had to make a choice and pay an extra $100 for the Kinect bundles. There are three SKUs in stores and two don't have Kinect.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
I think most of those bundles were sold simply because they were roughly the same cost as a PS3.
In that case, as a consumer, you could get comparable games AND get Kinect for the same price as a PS3...so it really did seem like a "value-add".
But that isn't the case anymore...and the alternative on the market is a device that's more powerful and costs $100 less.
You really have to WANT Kinect in order to justify getting an Xbox One from most consumer's perspective....I just don't see that being a reality.
CouldBeWorse
Member
That's fair. I think there was a lot of buyer's remorse with Kinect. I had some great Dance Central parties but in the end it definitely wasn't worth it.
I'm getting the bone in spite of Kinect, not in any way because of it.
I'm buying a bone to play the games. Same as PS4. I'm comfortable enough that I'll buy them nearly regardless of price. I'm getting off $100 cheaper than last time (PS3+360) and I get a (hopefully) less shitty Kinect thrown in. That's how I look at it. Anything decent on the Kinect is just a nice bonus but I don't plan on using it much.
bishopcruz
Member
The thing is, it's not. As has been said, the comparison isn't to the Dreamcast, which was a dying Sega's last gasp at the hardware market, but the Saturn, which was a clusterfuck of a launch in the US, and quite possibly the worst E3 disaster in history.
The thing is, Sega, like Microsoft, didn't just make one mistake in 1995 that killed them. Like Microsoft of today, Sega of the 90s spent years slowly bleeding the goodwill of their fans, underdelivering on promises, and overdelivering on crap that their core fanbase didn't want. I loved my Sega CD, but the fact of the matter is that for a $299 launch accessory, it did not have anywhere near the stable of software it needed to be worth it in the eyes of many. After the Sega CD the 32X came around and it did well out the gate, but died a quick unceremonious death once it became clear that the Saturn was the company's future. That's not even talking about the tons of Genesis skus confusing the market, the overpriced CDX, the dwindling software lineup in comparison to the SNES at the time, and the complete disconnect from their fanbase.
Saturn then decided to piss off all but 4 retailers in the US with an early launch, piss off their fanbase with an overpriced system that had next to no games for months, and they didn't take their cometition from Sony seriously. All of these individual errors could have been dealt with in isolation, but that was not the case at all.
Microsoft is in a similar position now, coming off a successful generation where they did better than most would have hoped in 2005. They have a popular gaming service, and are generally the console of choice for multiplats. But they have spent roughly 3 years slowly alienating their fanbase, underdelivering on Kinect, underdelivering on first party core games for the 360 and overall losing focus on the people who got them there in the first place.
When you add on the hubris of a $100 more expensive console that shouldn't be, and the fact that they are pissing off retailers (I doubt Gamestop will forget the blindside, even if MS went back on it), it's easy to see how the reveal of the X1 is probably the worst since the Saturn. Sega thought they had the US and European markets on lockdown in 1995, by 1996 they knew differently, and by 1998 it was over even if we didn't know it yet.
MS's biggest advantage is that they have started course correcting early, but the DRM and internet fiascos were just symptoms of a greater problem.
I really don't think Microsoft is trying to win this gen. They're settling to be a regional console. And to be honest, what's the point? Japan is never going to accept the XB1 and Europe will be lucky to be luke warm towards the console. So why spend a bunch of time and effort marketing to lost markets?
XB1 is really going to take some lumps this gen. It's not going to be pretty, but I definately do not want to see it die. I still think the absolute worse thing that could happen to the gaming industry is to have one company dominate a gen. I'm not having a lot of confidence for the WiiU either, so the XB1 needs to at least have some regional success.
XB1 is really going to take some lumps this gen. It's not going to be pretty, but I definately do not want to see it die. I still think the absolute worse thing that could happen to the gaming industry is to have one company dominate a gen. I'm not having a lot of confidence for the WiiU either, so the XB1 needs to at least have some regional success.
They might grab a system for Kinect 2 if the price goes down. I was talking about Sawyer's "ship has sailed" on "gimmickry" point in isolation, not about whole package, as I clearly stated.
Pound_lb003
Member
It has got to be said... There's not been an extreme loser this generation. If the lowest ends up at 80 million, that's really not bad going.
I think either way, competition is good. If two or three consoles go head to head and try to one-up each other all the time or when the 360 came out and just showed the PS3 who's boss early in the generation by getting so much right.
The issue that I have with the Xbox One is that I don't think it's competitive enough.
CouldBeWorse
Member
Comparisons to Sega are so dumb. Sega never enjoyed the success that the 360 has now and the financial positions (respective to the timing of system launches) of the two companies could not be more different. Plus, Sega never had the 3rd party support that Microsoft has.
CouldBeWorse
Member
Oh yeah. The PS4 is the PS4 primarily due to the 360 with a slight assist from the Wii.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It's dangerous putting your trust in the casual market. If you're just interested in the amount of hardware sales then fair enough, but if you want a good variety of games, then X1 MUST sell to core/hardcore gamers. Casuals do not buy many games. Why do you think that Nintendo are struggling to get 3rd party support?
Because being a console for the entire world is what gave the PS1, PS2, and PS3 their success. For all their flaws, Sony at least makes sure that their consoles can be enjoyed worldwide. Xbox 360 focuses on the US, but yet PS3 basically tied with it just with Europe and Japan. All Sony really has to do to beat Microsoft is obtain the US market again, and you see that that's been Sony's focus with the PS4, winning over the US gamers while retaining their European and Japanese ones.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Don't forget we have another 5 years at least with the PS3 and it's already in the lead. I know it's a little pedantic but your post makes it look like it's finished and it's a tie.
PS3 and 360 are very close in WW install base. I don't see what's wrong with that statement.
Well, I hope people understand that "at this point" is implied. Also, isn't MS making a new model of 360? That might last 5 years as well, so the eventual end of both PS3 and Xbox 360 may not have PS3 come out the automatic victor.
CouldBeWorse
Member
For all intents and purposes it's a tie. This gen is over. A few million difference in the end is meaningless except on forum wars.
At the very least, we know Sony is supporting the PS3 for the next year with first party games. GT6 is a massive title to be launching at any period in a the PS3's life, but more so this close to the PS4 release.
MS last big first party 360 game was arguably Halo 4. The first party future of the 360 is barren. I think Sony can be trusted to their long quoted line of a ten year cycle with the PS3. Conversely, I think MS have done a Nintendo and focused all their internal studios to the new console long before it launched. The final year or so of the 360 will be like that of the Wii.
I don't think the PS3 will beat the Wii's global sales, but will get far closer to them than the 360 manages.
A lot of people including myself were cringing at the thought of Microsoft shoving a bunch of Kinect at us during E3. They didn't do this, so people should be happy they didn't. They focused on real games. They can ease into the Kinect stuff later.
From my experience, kids love the Kinect. It's a legit game seller for kid's games. I know families who want a XB1 specifically because of Kinect 2, and since the damn thing caused the price to increase by a 100 bucks, they better have some plans for it.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yes, which is why I said 'pedantic'. I agree with you in general though
I apologise anyway. Flicking from here to N4Gamers makes you very cynical sometimes. I tend to say what I want to say with as few words as I can but forget that 'in text' it can come over as abrupt. It's just that I hate typing
But it would be like the PS4 coming with a pack-in game that ups the cost of the console by $100, then Sony refusing to showcase it.
The fact MS didn't feel comfortable showing off Kinect at E3 (but were more than comfortable to show off shoe-horned second screen guff) speaks volumes to me. That Kinect doesn't offer anything over and above the current Kinect. Hence they knew gamers would run a mile at the merest mention of it.
If MS had great gaming demos that showed how Kinect can make games more fun / more interesting / do new things, most gamers would lap it up.
I don't want it shoehorned into core games, but they need to sell the gaming applications of the tech somehow. Because using Kinect for media functions is not enough of a draw to take the $100 hit IMO.
Sony also have the history of handing their popular IPs over to their smaller internal studios to extend the franchise. That's how we've seen offshoots of PS3 games appear on PSP and Vita. I'd imagine the same thing will hold trus once PS4 hits. The smaller teams will still be supporting the PS3 with well known Sony IPs, while the big guns focus on the PS4.
I think the $100 hit most likely comes from the strongly rumored low yields issue, not Kinect. The technology is not that expensive.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I wouldn't say that, the PS2 era was divine.
Sony gave Sly 4, God of War Ascension, GT 6, Puppeteer, The Last of US, Rain etc. from their first party output this year. As far as I know, there's only locoCycle from Microsoft side and that's a multiplatform release together with Xbox One.
It was, but the Gamecube and Xbox did reasonable sales so I'm not sure I'd call that gen complete domination for Sony that crushed the competition.
There are people who want the XB1 to completely crash and burn. I don't think that would benefit the gaming industry at all.
Barkley's Justice
Member
56 pages deep at the moment, not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet. But those talking Edge "money hats", etc should know the magazine talks shit about both Sony & MS.
Not sure if I can directly quote the opening Edge editor's note, but he basically calls out Sony as being the opposite of ballsy for playing it safe. And of course takes shots at MS for not being ballsy by reversing their stance.
Not sure if I can directly quote the opening Edge editor's note, but he basically calls out Sony as being the opposite of ballsy for playing it safe. And of course takes shots at MS for not being ballsy by reversing their stance.
MrCookiepants
Member
Why do people say this? PS3 hasn't even reached mass market price yet ($199 US). There are GTA and Gran Turismo sequels on the way. It will command shelf space for years to come.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Doubtful.
Yields have an impact, but ultimately Kinect adds significant costs to the BOM.
It's much more than you're making it out to be, it has an onboard processor this time as well.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Because it's easier to quit early and call yourself a winner than it is to fight on to the finishing line.
'Aaaa ... we let them pass.'
Didn't somebody say that there's a 2013 version of FIFA for the PS2?
Talk about legs. Many, many years later and they're still making games for the PS2. Sony and 3rd party devs continued PS2 support long after it was necessary.
Meanwhile, the Xbox was dropped like a hot potato when the 360 made an appearance.
Talk about legs. Many, many years later and they're still making games for the PS2. Sony and 3rd party devs continued PS2 support long after it was necessary.
Meanwhile, the Xbox was dropped like a hot potato when the 360 made an appearance.
At least Sony had the reason to be arrogant after they won big with two generations in a row with PS1 & PS2.
Microsoft, however, was only self-successful with the Xbox 360 in which they were in 2nd place for most of this generation, & even Robbie Bach admitted that the 360 succeeded because of Sony's foul-ups with the PS3. Yet, they now already act like they're invincible.