But even with RROD, they were the cheapest game system with the best looking multiplats. That is no longer the case. You can't cherry pick one negative on Xbox One's side, compare it to the 360's situation, and say it's all going to be ok. Xbox 360 had a TON of positives when compared to PS3 for the first few years. Not this time.
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Edge #256: Why PS4 is your next console (Shots fired, post-DRM 180)
- Thread starter Nibel
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But even with RROD, they were the cheapest game system with the best looking multiplats. That is no longer the case. You can't cherry pick one negative on Xbox One's side, compare it to the 360's situation, and say it's all going to be ok. Xbox 360 had a TON of positives when compared to PS3 for the first few years. Not this time.
That's a good point about the RROD. But I think that the main difference is that at the point the RROD began to really rear its head, Xbox360 owners had an established library of games and more importantly, an established group of friends/community, online and offline that they didn't want to leave.
Anything thing can happen, I agree, but out of the gates it's going to be a little humbling for MS when the pre-sales numbers begin to translating into actual sales numbers.
George Claw M.D.
Member
Well, yeah. I thought it was obvious those people are who I was talking about. My point was that they state it as a negative thing that Sony will eventually do once Sony "can get away with it." But if Sony "get away with it," it's because it's a DRM system that most people would be okay with, and thus wouldn't be a negative thing the way Microsoft's DRM is perceived.
My jaw dropped.
Maybe I'm just naive and cynical. But I seriously thought that fanboys would jump back in without question.
!
The MS fanboys probably never left. Others that are following this clusterfuck will not easily reconsider because they won't trust MS again quickly. Eventually, sure, but by then the early adopters may have already opened their wallets for PS4
The mainstream that aren't necessarily following this are the most likely to buy Xbox one because the first they'll see is the new message MS has. Bit then they'll also see the sticker price which remains a challenge
How many general consumers bought multiplats on the 360 because they looked better? How many general consumers would have even been able to tell the difference?
If anything, Live/Xbox 360 features, controller preference and just "what system I own" played a larger role in 360 being the multiplatform system of choice for many instead of just them looking better.
Heh, I'm not cherry picking anything. All I'm saying is that anything can happen. If the 360 managed to still do will post launch after the whole RROD debacle then I don't see how it's impossible for the Xbox One not to either once the system has, you know, actually launched. The people buying the consoles in 2013-2014 wont be the majority. After that period there will be many changes as there were after each and every gen 1st year of gaming gens in the past. The Xbox One could get a price drop after the system's first year and end up being the same price as the PS4 or cheaper. Who knows.
I mean, you mentioned the PS3 -- look how the PS3 was able to greatly turn things around in NA after the slim rebranding back in 2009.
There's obviously going to be many changes over the course of next generation especially now that consumers are familiar with online features/updates that transform consoles in many areas. No one knows what will happen 2-3 years from now.
How well would it have done though if the PS3 launched at the same time and was $100 dollars cheaper?
Fredrik
Member
What do they mean by this?
Didn't Sega throw in the towel because they didn't have any money left for marketing plus no EA support? MS on the other hand have a crazy amount of cash for both marketing and securing dev support and exclusivities.
biggest difference is that 100$ price tag .
PS3 was chasing and chasing and could never go under 360 with price tag.
100 bucks is big difference for kids/ parents to just pass over. for core gamer you might justify extra 100 bucks due to higher specs , better exclusives or even better value. but mainstream care more for that 100 bucks than anything. Ps3 vs 360 showed that.
PS3 was chasing and chasing and could never go under 360 with price tag.
100 bucks is big difference for kids/ parents to just pass over. for core gamer you might justify extra 100 bucks due to higher specs , better exclusives or even better value. but mainstream care more for that 100 bucks than anything. Ps3 vs 360 showed that.
Earlier in the piece they were drawing comparisons to Saturn. They harked back to the '299 mike drop' of E3 1995, and drew comparisons with public reaction then and now.
That point isn't saying Microsoft faces cash challenges. But Sega had problems with Saturn in terms of power, perception, developer friendliness - problems Edge ascribes to Xbox One - as well as how clued in they appeared to be vs Sony (casting MS in a similar role now on that front too). Sony threw open the doors to developers with the original Playstation while Sega and Nintendo stuck to old playbooks. Edge seems to suggest roles are similar again now twixt Sony and Microsoft. Edge seems to deem the indie/small developer constituency as extremely important, and that they're favouring PS4 'in droves'.
BlastProcessing
Member
I think it is a really well done cover story that backs up the position taken by the cover.
They succintly argue a common thread with Microsofts recent output.
This isn't some hit piece, it is a thoughtful critique of how Microsoft's corporate philosophy creates products that too often are both simultaneously ahead and behind their time.
They succintly argue a common thread with Microsofts recent output.
Edge said:
Edge said:
This isn't some hit piece, it is a thoughtful critique of how Microsoft's corporate philosophy creates products that too often are both simultaneously ahead and behind their time.
Quite a few I'd imagine. Anecdotal I know, but most of my cousins and friends buy based on which multiplatform port is superior. And it's not like those Digital Foundry head to heads don't get thousands of views.
I agree. And the reason why the Xbox 360 was in 2nd place throughout most of last generation is because of three things:
-The year head start.
-RROD (people rebuying multiple 360's due to that before the three year warranty for that came along).
-Kinect pushing more 360 sales along with it's $500 million advertising.
Without any of those things, then the 360 would've been in 3rd place way before these past few months in 2013, let alone before November 2010 in which Kinect first came.
This. Sony did bad with the $600 price tag of the PS3, but not even they are that crazy enough to try that, especially when the used gaming market is very big in Japan.
Marked_Bravado
Banned
And it had a year head start. PS3 lost out on early hit exclusives like Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Dead Rising to name a few.
Like the tablet computer being announced in 2002 by Bill Gates IIRC.
Microsoft had a year to the market by itself when that happened, and effectively set aside $1 billion aside before the PS3 even hit, also take into account that Gears of War dropped around the time the PS3 came out (which was the more expensive console) and MS had a perfect storm to recover from that mishap.
If MS has another RROD situation in the current climate I don't think it'd get away with that in the way it did then.
Precisely.
The Xbox may have dominated the U.S. market this generation, but that doesn't mean that Microsoft has a ton of goodwill. I know people who've stuck with Xbox, and they did so for the reasons you said. They didn't enjoy going through five 360s because they kept red-ringing. They didn't enjoy paying for online multiplayer when they knew it was free on PS3. They didn't enjoy spending $99 on a Wi-Fi adapter. They didn't enjoy knowing that Xbox was the only platform that made you pay to use their Netflix app. They put up with all this because they had a bunch of Xbox Live friends and a bunch of 360 games.
But now we're entering a new generation. Those same people I know are buying a PS4 because they all agreed to switch to PS4. Their vast 360 game collections don't even factor into the decision because neither console is offering backwards compatibility.
The Xbox gained a lot of market share this generation, but that doesn't mean it's well loved.
Fredrik
Member
Ah, thanks, makes a bit more sense now.
Their fat wallet can save them from almost anything though, just like with Xbox price drop and RROD extended waranty etc, if they think it's important enough to be around in this space they will do what's necessary to turn it around.
I'm more worried about Nintendo, they do have the cash but they're stalling way too much before using it. No price drop, titles keep getting delayed, and I still haven't seen one single TV or magazine commercial for WiiU where I live. Have they already started preparing for their next console launch? :/
This. Microsoft's giving them no real reason to stick with the Xbox brand now that there's no BC with 360 games/XBLA games. The most that they can do is transfer your Gamertags/Profiles, but what's the point in that?
And now that Sony's ditched the exotic hardware in favor of standard parts, the Xbox is no longer the safer choice for third-party games. If anything, Xbox games will look worse.
Fredrik
Member
This is one thing I don't care about, anymore. I recently lost/forgot my login info, and after weeks of trying to change the password I got the answer that it's not possible. They think I'm bluffing, trying to hack someone elses gamertag. No help anymore. Can't get it back. Dead end.
Fortunately I'm still logged in on the console since I had it set to auto sign in. But I can't add a credit card, can't transfer my stuff to a new console or a new gamertag. My games, dlc, etc is forever locked into this current 360. :/ And if I ever sign out... Well, then everything is lost, forever. :/
So Xbox One is a fresh start for me. New gamertag. Etc.
And it also gives me an excuse to dust this off:
In Microsoft's case, I'd say one generation of console dominance isn't enough to really fit the pattern, but as you mention the pattern can't be taken very seriously.
FnordChan
And the irony about that, is that PS4 is much more easier to develop for than Xbox One is, due to the 32 MB's of eSRAM, Move Engines, & DDR3 that developers would have to juggle around with.
And it's funny because PS2 & PS3 weren't developer friendly, while the original Xbox & Xbox 360 were. Now with both Xbox One & PS4, Sony & Microsoft are switching sides in this department. And that can also be good for Sony, especially when they haven't had a developer friendly platform since PS1.
Wait really? So this is why the 180's controller has a much improved D-pad? lol
Yes. It ran out in 2005, the year the 360 launched. It was probably too late to change anything.
the biggest drawback is always goin to be price. 599 is a lot of money.
499 is a lot of money compared to 399.
MS knows this which is why its trying to sell on getting people to buy games that they perceive gamers want and market it as such.
We dont know if titanfall is goin to be good. But they are making it out to make it seem that way and gamers will flock to the games that they think or being told is good
499 is a lot of money compared to 399.
MS knows this which is why its trying to sell on getting people to buy games that they perceive gamers want and market it as such.
We dont know if titanfall is goin to be good. But they are making it out to make it seem that way and gamers will flock to the games that they think or being told is good
It's also going to be a 360 game with an installed userbase of 75 million consoles. So how much of a $500 system seller is it if it's cross gen?
Indeed... The most popular digital distribution services are the ones which make sure to have backwards compatibility because having that vast library locks a person into the system. Without it, a person would lack a reason to stay with the service.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, too bad I'll be getting both.
..and I prefer the 360 controller.
..and I prefer the 360 controller.
Good news is none of the console use the 360 controller.
rudieboy77
Member
I quit PC gaming when the PS came out, bought a PS2 at release and didn't buy an XB until the 360 came out. I bought a 360 as soon as I heard the nonsense about the PS3 before it came out and I still haven't purchased a PS3. I will not buy a XB1 just like I didn't buy a PS3. I wonder how many people will not buy one out of principle?
I feel the same. The points in the article are quite well articulated and there were some very valid concerns that I also agree with. MS is addressing issues that haven't surfaced yet, but they will eventually ie the digital future. And I believe they are ready for the future, they just jumped the gun a little.
However I think that most peoples reaction to the product they've shown is a little poisonous and hyperbolic. MS console is indeed weaker than Sony's machine, a valid point but a mute one at the same time that will fade with time as we get to see more games on both platforms, in the end gamers only care about games. MS has a slew of features that make it's console a worthwhile choice, especially after price reductions (if they happen). The Kinect gives differentiation and the software offers so many features we'll never see on Sony's platform such as smart matchmaking, voice activation, instant switching, multi tasking, reputation system, Skype, HDMI IN and a few others. Not to mention original TV shows, something Sony is also working on.
Sony's system IS a very well built one, and offers great games. Sony took the PS3, applied non-exotic architecture and made it 360 2.0. But that's where the innovation ends, and I'm a little disappointed they didn't try to improve their Move tech or the PSEye there was SO much potential. Instead they took the safe bet and appeased the old ways which isn't necessarily a bad thing today but may hurt them in the long run, and I bet my left nut they will pursue original TV shows, and casual audiences after the first 2 years of the console life cycle.
It's be really interesting where both companies are in 10 years. But I'm certain Xbox (and Playstation) will be here and remain a full force in this race.
Your point has merit, but the X1 doesn't have exotic hardware. Nothing about the architecture is formidable to work with, this isn't black and white. It simpler means a little more understanding is required to code for it. Devs won't look at it and sweat, they'll simply have a little extra time to work on it. This isn't CELL we're talking about here. Ultimately both architectures are great for devs to work on, that's perfect for multiplats.
BlastProcessing
Member
You ignore the fact that with the bundled forced Kinect and still expensive eSRAM design, Sony will be able to undercut the XBO price for the entire generation.
XBO will still sell quite a few consoles, but they are going to lose marketshare to Sony. Even a small 25% userbase shift ends up with Sony selling over 90 million and Microsoft selling less than 60. And I can see the possibility of a larger shift than that.
That is a whole lot of assumptions on functionality differences.
this whole thread is about assumptions
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Unless Sony is moving the left analog, then it doesn't matter.
You make a console decision based on that? Companies make compatible controllers with the moved stick.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003V4AK8E/ref=redir_mdp_mobile
*tag quote*
Xbone controller isn't much of an upgrade over the 360,just a few adjustments here and there with the addition of hepatic feedback in the triggers. DS4 is a huge upgrade over the DS3, and yes both the right and left analogs have moved, laterally that is.
louis89
Member
Who is the guy on the left?And it also gives me an excuse to dust this off:
In Microsoft's case, I'd say one generation of console dominance isn't enough to really fit the pattern, but as you mention the pattern can't be taken very seriously.
FnordChan
Yeh, and things like instant switching and multitasking is already on the PS4 (UI demo video) and most of the other features are just made up marketing terms like "the cloud" or software features that can easily be done on the PS4 if they want.
Huh. Nolan Bushnell. Founder of Atari.
That picture of KK always cracks me up. He looks like some NK leader.
googleplex
Member
Excellent points, all of them.
The problem is that even now hardly anyone is absolutely convinced that buying Xbone is the right decision, even core 360 fans who've been supporting Xbox/360 all the way through. It basically went from "There's no way I could possibly buy this" (pre-180) to a deep uncertainty towards both the product and Microsoft as a company.
So yeah, Edge does have a point in publishing such an article. Even the harsh cover and tag line is probably good for everyone, because it'll be another building block in the massive wall of pressure that MS is facing. It'll only push them to damage control more which will eventually result in a better and more user-friendly console concept and company policy.
So yeah, Edge does have a point in publishing such an article. Even the harsh cover and tag line is probably good for everyone, because it'll be another building block in the massive wall of pressure that MS is facing. It'll only push them to damage control more which will eventually result in a better and more user-friendly console concept and company policy.
disastermouse
Banned
I just can't believe that MS squandered its good will with gamers so completely. Rarely is a match-up so unbalanced. Even the X360/PS3 match up wasn't this unbalanced.
And yet the majority of PS4 fans always argued that it was subjective.
I find it funny that almost everyone says how much of an improvement the new controller is (and I'll note that I think it looks damned awesome) but these were the same people saying that the PS3 controller was as good as the 360 controller, just different.