That sounds like it's be more interesting innately. Although there's probably some anime stuff with that already.
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Empathy - "But I can't relate to a girl!"
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I really do not think there is any hope in this industry. I do not care what or who I am playing as long as the game is enjoyable. Female, male, dog, monster, cat, creature, alien, indian, white, black, hispanic, fat, skinny, toothless, etc. Doesn't matter to me. It makes the experience more unique seeing it from different perspectives. Imo, subjects like this is more of a hurdle to overcome than stuff like female sexualization in video games. What good is having a great, well developed female character if gamers still feel this way about playing as one in a fictional video game. People passing on a video game because the main character doesn't look like them or is relatable? I will never understand.
I remember reading an article on The Guardian about Mansplaining, and the comments section was, let's just say an example of how self-awareness is a trait many people seem to lack.
As a guy it's embarrassing. For women? I can't begin to imagine how fucking annoying it must be.
Oh, and as this came up earlier and I missed the chance. As a straight guy, I have no problem playing characters who get involved in romantic situations, regardless of the type. Why? Because they're not me, I'm playing as the character, not myself. To the guy who somehow can kill thousands of people yet can't bear to watch their character make out with anyone "they couldn't do it with" I call on you to get a grip, seriously.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
What's worse?
When the same people crying about the lack of an ability to relate start talking about wanting to kill any character - NPC or PC - that they have an issue with. And they always cite "it's a fantasy" as the excuse to having just admitted to wanting to kill people.
When the same people crying about the lack of an ability to relate start talking about wanting to kill any character - NPC or PC - that they have an issue with. And they always cite "it's a fantasy" as the excuse to having just admitted to wanting to kill people.
I know.
I got the first ending, and then realised I had to play it another 10 times for the true ending, so I stopped there. Probably skews my perception of the game a bit. I could kinda see where it was going, but I had time constraints.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Although it IS still the perspective of white guys, mind you, since even if the characters themselves are minority or whatever it is still mainly white guys that created/wrote them, so whatever "perspective" those characters have it's still "perspective of a minority character according to white guys."
That is why fostering a highly diversified game creators is much more important to me as the first step before we demand game companies to create games with more character varieties.
I don't understand how "I must relate to the characters in this fictional world in order to enjoy them more" is such a difficult concept to grasp. It is really not a mindblowing or foreign concept. However it is when people use that reason as to why he/she doesn't want to play/enjoy any fictional work then it's become a problem: it's not a problem of unable to "relate", it's a problem of sexism.
White males are the most fragile flowers in society
Weltall Zero
Member
So we're in the "men shouldn't say what women want, let me do exactly that and assume they want what I want" stage. I particularly love when Lime posted the actual research and none of the previous mansplainers got the guts to admit they were wrong. Self-consciousness indeed.
I remember contributing to this when it was being made. Should have been posted in the OP.
I remember contributing to this when it was being made.
Should have been posted in the OP.Chaos2Frozen
Member
...I'm pretty sure you can.
I could understand maybe if their sexuality, gender or race were huge components to the story, but any good writing should be able to overcome that. The Last of Us II isn't exactly about Ellie's quest for tampons, and even if it was, good writing would be able to draw out themes in that concept that people who had never had a similar experience would be able to relate to or at least empathize with. If you're saying you won't be able to relate to the character because she's female (without having even played the game yet) it's straight up sexism.
Weltall Zero
Member
The game chose for you, you could only play as her in co-op. It's as stupid as it sounds, as she's present during the entire game and has the same actions (or equivalent) as Chris. As an aside, I played the entire game in co-op as her.
(confession time: I'm only human, I might have had reasons outside empathy to play as her; I find Sheva to be quite possibly the sexiest character to ever to grace a videogame. I mean, damn. Those eyes.)
If only that were true. White men would only realize what it feels like if 70% of all games' main characters were black transexual women with no possibility to change it, and that just plain isn't happening ever. But I admit I would love to send some of them to that parallel dimension to see how much they like it.
CaramelMarx
Neo Member
IMO characters have (at least) three creators: the writer, the voice actor, and the player. When we think we see from the perspective of a certain character, we're actually interpreting and inventing a brand new version of them: a version that's us, with a different exterior. Hence I don't think most of what's been discussed in this thread has been about real empathy: if 'real' empathy means 'really' seeing from somebody else's POV; let alone imagining what it would be like.
To take the OP's example of TLOU - all that psychological detail provided is purely the OP's interpretation, i.e. the specific way he or she put together the info, drew conclusions, and constructed a model of what goes on in Ellie's mind. What makes any of us so confident we know or even can know what goes on in somebody else's mind - even somebody of the same ethnic, social, and gender background, let alone somebody whose entire life involves innumerable differences and distinctions we categorically can only learn about second hand?
Frankly it seems dehumanizing to insist upon a patronizing stereotype of the 'proud, noble oppressed' person whose thoughts and deeds are simple and transparent enough to understand without much effort or complication. If people of different categorical demarcators are in fact people (which of course, they are), that means they are individuals: that means they can be cruel, stupid, petty, or random, or unique in some incalculable or unforeseen way. This isn't a James Cameron movie, after all.
It sounds nice to say that one has empathy, and I'm all for maximizing as much of it as possible: I'm not sure fiction, let alone games, are as good for that as they seem. For me the danger of inadvertently insulting somebody different by assuming we've lived the same or similar or even relatable experiences keeps me asking myself questions like these all the time.
To take the OP's example of TLOU - all that psychological detail provided is purely the OP's interpretation, i.e. the specific way he or she put together the info, drew conclusions, and constructed a model of what goes on in Ellie's mind. What makes any of us so confident we know or even can know what goes on in somebody else's mind - even somebody of the same ethnic, social, and gender background, let alone somebody whose entire life involves innumerable differences and distinctions we categorically can only learn about second hand?
Frankly it seems dehumanizing to insist upon a patronizing stereotype of the 'proud, noble oppressed' person whose thoughts and deeds are simple and transparent enough to understand without much effort or complication. If people of different categorical demarcators are in fact people (which of course, they are), that means they are individuals: that means they can be cruel, stupid, petty, or random, or unique in some incalculable or unforeseen way. This isn't a James Cameron movie, after all.
It sounds nice to say that one has empathy, and I'm all for maximizing as much of it as possible: I'm not sure fiction, let alone games, are as good for that as they seem. For me the danger of inadvertently insulting somebody different by assuming we've lived the same or similar or even relatable experiences keeps me asking myself questions like these all the time.
I've seriously never had a situation where I thought "I don't want to play this game because the main character is a different gender, race, orientation, age, build" or whatever.
I tend to make a character similar to myself for games that let you customise the character, since games with those options usually let you explore the game's world through the character you create and encourage you to choose the character's personality.
There are some games where there is a bit of choice in customising the character but it makes no material difference in the game, and I'll just choose whatever I feel like at the time. And then there are games that revolve around telling the story of the main character in that world where their characteristics affect the story being told. I want to know their story... that's the point of fiction!
I'll play them as long as the game is good, and I have an interest in the gameplay or the story it has to tell. If people have problems with certain games because the developer wanted to tell the story of someone who isn't white and male, well that's their loss, really.
I mean, seriously, the first video game I've ever played was Mach Rider. For all I knew, it was playing a fucking motorbike. How the fuck did I relate to that!
Wow, I never knew MrAngryFace said all those things. For shame.
I tend to make a character similar to myself for games that let you customise the character, since games with those options usually let you explore the game's world through the character you create and encourage you to choose the character's personality.
There are some games where there is a bit of choice in customising the character but it makes no material difference in the game, and I'll just choose whatever I feel like at the time. And then there are games that revolve around telling the story of the main character in that world where their characteristics affect the story being told. I want to know their story... that's the point of fiction!
I'll play them as long as the game is good, and I have an interest in the gameplay or the story it has to tell. If people have problems with certain games because the developer wanted to tell the story of someone who isn't white and male, well that's their loss, really.
I mean, seriously, the first video game I've ever played was Mach Rider. For all I knew, it was playing a fucking motorbike. How the fuck did I relate to that!
Wow, I never knew MrAngryFace said all those things. For shame.
So the same people should have said that couldn't relate with Joel if they were not fathers... I just don't get it... :\
And I don't need to feel like a dragon if I play as Spyro.
And so on...
If someone is looking for emphaty in a game or in another media, they should just play(or wathever) only when they can customize their character or if the char is similar to them, or their story is somehow connected to their past...?
EDIT:
Example
Telltales Walking Dead, the first season.
I'm a black man around 40(?), a prisoner, I find a little black girl. The game was amazing and I also cryied at the ending.
I'm a white man, I was 25, I'm not a father, I don't live in a post zombie invasion world.
Won't even consider the second season when we are the little girl...
If Emphaty is about being similar or having something in correlation with the environment or char, then is useless to make a great story/game.
And I don't need to feel like a dragon if I play as Spyro.
And so on...
If someone is looking for emphaty in a game or in another media, they should just play(or wathever) only when they can customize their character or if the char is similar to them, or their story is somehow connected to their past...?
EDIT:
Example
Telltales Walking Dead, the first season.
I'm a black man around 40(?), a prisoner, I find a little black girl. The game was amazing and I also cryied at the ending.
I'm a white man, I was 25, I'm not a father, I don't live in a post zombie invasion world.
Won't even consider the second season when we are the little girl...
If Emphaty is about being similar or having something in correlation with the environment or char, then is useless to make a great story/game.
User123456
Member
I never understood this "relate to x character" thing. I can't relate to Sonic: He's super easy going and extroverted and I'm an introverted worrywart. He's still my favorite videogame character.
Just make the character great and we're golden. Apply to any character. Just don't make them silent non-characters like so many modern FPS protags.
Just make the character great and we're golden. Apply to any character. Just don't make them silent non-characters like so many modern FPS protags.
Emulated Hype
Member
I've never had a problem with it, though I think the people who are like this tend to be the ones who always RP as themselves when given the option in games. Like, naming the main character after themselves in every JRPG or exclusively trying to recreate themselves in Saints Row, Fallout, GTA Online, ect. and never branching out from that. At least that's what I've seen from within my own circle of friends.
As far as Naughty Dog is concerned, they could stick a GTA5/RE:Rev2 character swap mechanic and I'd be completely nonplussed. They nearly always have a buddy traveling with you and in most cases their skill-sets are completely interchangeable with your own.
As far as Naughty Dog is concerned, they could stick a GTA5/RE:Rev2 character swap mechanic and I'd be completely nonplussed. They nearly always have a buddy traveling with you and in most cases their skill-sets are completely interchangeable with your own.
On the sociopaths thing...one of the wildest things about JoJo Part 4 is...
They really put you into the head of Kira and fully humanize him as an antagonist who is also a person in his own right while still making him a fully disgusting human being that you hate and fear for the exact reasons you should. I find he's one of the most fully realized villain characters I've ever seen in an anime and I even end up half-rooting for him in his solo episodes where he's trying to "live peacefully" and maintain his new life.
hooijdonk17
Member
It's not a need, it's a desire. It's a fundamental disconnect between people don't get this 'need' because they play videogames to experience something and people who have it because they play it to fulfill a white male fantasy. This is why they won't play as Ellie but don't mind drooling over Bayonetta's ass all day.
I think this is part of a larger problem and it's a privileged mentality seriously lacking in self-awareness. When I say larger problem I mean you can literally see it through all forms of media.
This is the same thing behind a lack of support for media considered "for women" and ignored by men. Female driven television and film are victims of this same mentality and it suffers for it. Look at the Nancy Drew pilot with Sarah Shahi as the lead that didn't get picked up with some reporting that it was dropped for being what the studio said was "too female" although they denied that later. Look at J.K. Rowling having to disguise her name as something more gender neutral because boys would be less likely to purchase the book if they knew the writer is female.
It's infuriating all around and it's disturbing that people get upset because of having to play from a different perspective
Neogaf went through some growing pains but it has gotten so much better. In recent years NeoGaf has become one of the few places on the internet I feel comfortable discussing gaming and related things on. It's far more progressive than any other gaming centered site i've been on and I have never been made to feel worse about myself on here or had to see ignorant garbage without it getting shut down quick. I can't say that about many sites on the internet.
I am a woman and I am arab and I am gay. As you can imagine I have seen and experienced my fair share of idiocy online and I am grateful NeoGaf exists. And I am grateful that so many awesome posters on here exists that make that experience for me worthwhile. Thank you all for making this site what it is. For making this a site where a topic like this exists and is being discussed. For making one of the places on the internet where people like me feel welcome. I just needed to tell you all that.
This is the same thing behind a lack of support for media considered "for women" and ignored by men. Female driven television and film are victims of this same mentality and it suffers for it. Look at the Nancy Drew pilot with Sarah Shahi as the lead that didn't get picked up with some reporting that it was dropped for being what the studio said was "too female" although they denied that later. Look at J.K. Rowling having to disguise her name as something more gender neutral because boys would be less likely to purchase the book if they knew the writer is female.
It's infuriating all around and it's disturbing that people get upset because of having to play from a different perspective
Neogaf went through some growing pains but it has gotten so much better. In recent years NeoGaf has become one of the few places on the internet I feel comfortable discussing gaming and related things on. It's far more progressive than any other gaming centered site i've been on and I have never been made to feel worse about myself on here or had to see ignorant garbage without it getting shut down quick. I can't say that about many sites on the internet.
I am a woman and I am arab and I am gay. As you can imagine I have seen and experienced my fair share of idiocy online and I am grateful NeoGaf exists. And I am grateful that so many awesome posters on here exists that make that experience for me worthwhile. Thank you all for making this site what it is. For making this a site where a topic like this exists and is being discussed. For making one of the places on the internet where people like me feel welcome. I just needed to tell you all that.
Can Crusher
Banned
A lot of gamers just want to play pretend. They project themselves on the character they are playing with. I imagine this is one of the reasons many devs avoid well defined characters, and end up with empty ones.
I understand if somebody doesn't want to play as a 19 year old girl or a 14 year old boy. They want to feel like the "actors" in the game, and the main character prevents them from achieving that feeling.
I understand if somebody doesn't want to play as a 19 year old girl or a 14 year old boy. They want to feel like the "actors" in the game, and the main character prevents them from achieving that feeling.
Pffft when was the last time we had a British-Pakistani protagonist!??!! I DEMAND JUSTICE!!!!
On a serious note, those examples OP quoted are ridiculous. I assume they're ok with a female gamer playing as white male protagonist #19473, but can't get behind playing as one of the very few female protagonists. Did these guys refuse to watch Mad Max: Fury Road because it was pretty much Furiosa ft. Silent Max?
On a serious note, those examples OP quoted are ridiculous. I assume they're ok with a female gamer playing as white male protagonist #19473, but can't get behind playing as one of the very few female protagonists. Did these guys refuse to watch Mad Max: Fury Road because it was pretty much Furiosa ft. Silent Max?
Vismund Cygnus
Member
I am not a woman, I am not Arab, and I am not Gay, and I am happy that we are still different, stay free, and this gif below belongs to us
I don't care if it is cheesy XD
QuantumZebra
Member
well that's not what I meant... but I am indeed ok with this
I mean it has been a thing with movies for a long time. Thankfully, things are finally changing for the better, by and large most blockbusters still have a white male lead.
John Kowalski
Banned
Just wait until we get an AAA game with a transgender MC. I bet at least a 75% drop in my opinion of gaming side.
I think we're far from getting there. It's already rare to get one with a black male, imagine that! Is there even an AAA game out there with an important transgender sidekick/companion/etc.?
Just_myles
Member
No argument here whatsoever. Really really annoying.
We have been playing female characters in games for decades. I remember being a teenager and playing as Yuko in the Valis series. I don't think I was even relatable to teenage Japanese school girl.
It's like, what are they expecting by saying things like that?
We have been playing female characters in games for decades. I remember being a teenager and playing as Yuko in the Valis series. I don't think I was even relatable to teenage Japanese school girl.
It's like, what are they expecting by saying things like that?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
TIL they are making TLoU2
I relate to whatever I'm playing. I don't even think it's a factor of empathy, it's more fundamental even than that. Gaming is play. Difficulties in immersion beyond those that can defensibly be tied to poor game design are usually the fault of the player's imagination.
I relate to whatever I'm playing. I don't even think it's a factor of empathy, it's more fundamental even than that. Gaming is play. Difficulties in immersion beyond those that can defensibly be tied to poor game design are usually the fault of the player's imagination.
John Kowalski
Banned
Off the top of my head, Catherine and Inquisition had debatably positive transgender secondary characters.
I'd place my bets that Andromeda will have a transgender companion. If not that, I think for the next Dragon Age it's a given.
Anyway, I've always found this whole "empathy" matter rather funny, honestly.
I'm glad that you're here and feel welcome.
QuantumZebra
Member
I've seen lazy "both sides" posts, but this one might be one of the best
_______________
I love it here because of that and I'm glad you found a cool place to hang out on the internet (and that we all have).
____________________
Now, on topic: it is nonsensical that somebody couldn't play a female and / or alternate race of character and enjoy the game... I mean what games would you even play?
Only western RPGs where you can make a character exactly like yourself?
God forbid you play Battletoads, Metroid, Crash Bandicoot, or damn near any other game.
Do these people not play Super Mario because they're not Italian or a plumber also? Like wtf.
______________
My point above touches on this - do these people not play Mario, Crash, Kirby, anything other than a game that lets you make an avatar of yourself? I mean in MMOs and RPGs I usually try to look like myself, but I also play JRPGs where I'm a talking samurai frog and I'm totally fine.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
Nice OP. I'm glad I don't have that hangup because it would've artificially limited my options for games/movies/tv/books/art/music and I would have missed out on lots of enjoyable and significant experiences.
Weltall Zero
Member
That's so... heartwarming to read, in a sense that feels so literal. You may need to tell us that, but I think many of us also need to read that, to remind us that GAF is actually pretty sweet all things considered and it does help people feel welcome. I'm glad to be part of it, and I'll keep pushing to make it as inclusive as possible.
Cheers!Edit: And something very important I forgot to mention: as much as you benefit from GAF being a place you feel welcome, GAF as a whole also benefits immensely from having more diverse life experiences and points of view. So, as part of GAF, thank you for being here and enriching it.
Highlighting a very nice post. High Five!
QuantumZebra
Member
Yea I plain feel sorry for people that choose to skip out on games/media because it features someone unlike themselves.... what a limited way to view the world.
And Go Falcons!!
.. that loss to KC sucked though Aurean_Mentat
Member
A perspective that I think doesn't get enough exposure is that we're talking video game characters, and entertainment.
- Videogames are different (because they're interactive)
A variety of perspectives (and MCs) are present in TV shows / movies / comics / books, but the key differential here is that you're kind of viewing the action and asked to empathize with the characters. A key point in storytelling is that if the character doesn't care about something, the audience won't either. And so, asking why you don't care about the particular struggles of a fictional character doesn't necessarily just come down to you being a sociopath. Admittedly, I think there might be some area worth exploring there in terms of self-development, but I think the idea of labeling you as anything because you couldn't connect with a fictional character is stupid.
I don't recall a lot of people having problems with the JRPG approach, which is you inhabiting a role and kind of watching the story play out. Because you understand that these are roles, and not meant to be a representation of you, then I think playing as someone not yourself is a lot of less loaded of a proposition.
The western tradition of RPGs (ficitional version of you in the world, more self-empowerment) has bled over to so much of modern videogaming. No longer are you inhabiting a role in a play, now you are the character and they do a lot to try to get you view yourself as the MC. In Mass Effect, for example, no longer am I watching Shepard get his groove on with his partner of choice, now I'm Shepard.
And my version of Shepard isn't interested in certain things (like kissing a dude). Not that I don't think that it should/shouldn't happen on screen with other people (which I'm fine with), just that if you put all this work into me being Shepard (analog for myself, fairly blank character as per WRPG tradition) instead of playing the role of Shepard (like a role in a play or TV show) and then go 'why don't you want to do this?', its largely because I wouldn't.
That's a fairly thorny problem to solve, because I definitely think that stuff should exist. Everyone should feel like they are represented in games (hopefully in a positive light as well). As an autistic person, I cheered for Abed just because he was the first autistic character in a TV show that wasn't the weirdo, or the sociopath, or viewed as anything other than a person who worked differently, but still had interesting and worthwhile things to say and do.
But there's just so much out there in terms of entertainment that trying to judge anybody for not being interested (or for said thing falling down the list in favor of things they are more interested in) more often says more about the person doing the judging than it does about the person making decisions about their entertainment.
Here's my reason for not being interested in things that I can't relate to. I'm autistic, I don't naturally relate to anybody (in terms of socially). Between going to school, dealing with doctors/specialists, trying to socialize and expand my social circle to more than just me and my extended family, trying to deal with the baggage of being told for 26 years it was all in my head (and my life crumbling around me when no one gave a damn about actually listening to/helping me), I'm exhausted at the end of the day. If you presented me with a game where I was to play a girl romancing a dude, its not that I wouldn't do it, just that looks like work (in addition to it being even further from relating to fellow heterosexual men, which I have difficulty doing in the first place). What I want is entertainment, so I would take that, and then go in search of experiences that I would find entertaining (which does involve white male protagonists who I relate to easier because at least I look like them, even if I can't relate to anything beyond that ).
But everyone deserves to have entertainment that they can enjoy, and I totally get why having someone who looks like you or that you can relate to is important. But I do try to keep in mind that while being able to relate to people is important, relating to people (even fictional ones) is also work. The further the fictional person is from who you are, the more work it is. Skilled writing can reduce this workload (as can a variety of things), but its never no work. And should someone decide that they'd rather go for something they can find entertaining, I can't really fault them for that.
- Videogames are different (because they're interactive)
A variety of perspectives (and MCs) are present in TV shows / movies / comics / books, but the key differential here is that you're kind of viewing the action and asked to empathize with the characters. A key point in storytelling is that if the character doesn't care about something, the audience won't either. And so, asking why you don't care about the particular struggles of a fictional character doesn't necessarily just come down to you being a sociopath. Admittedly, I think there might be some area worth exploring there in terms of self-development, but I think the idea of labeling you as anything because you couldn't connect with a fictional character is stupid.
I don't recall a lot of people having problems with the JRPG approach, which is you inhabiting a role and kind of watching the story play out. Because you understand that these are roles, and not meant to be a representation of you, then I think playing as someone not yourself is a lot of less loaded of a proposition.
The western tradition of RPGs (ficitional version of you in the world, more self-empowerment) has bled over to so much of modern videogaming. No longer are you inhabiting a role in a play, now you are the character and they do a lot to try to get you view yourself as the MC. In Mass Effect, for example, no longer am I watching Shepard get his groove on with his partner of choice, now I'm Shepard.
And my version of Shepard isn't interested in certain things (like kissing a dude). Not that I don't think that it should/shouldn't happen on screen with other people (which I'm fine with), just that if you put all this work into me being Shepard (analog for myself, fairly blank character as per WRPG tradition) instead of playing the role of Shepard (like a role in a play or TV show) and then go 'why don't you want to do this?', its largely because I wouldn't.
That's a fairly thorny problem to solve, because I definitely think that stuff should exist. Everyone should feel like they are represented in games (hopefully in a positive light as well). As an autistic person, I cheered for Abed just because he was the first autistic character in a TV show that wasn't the weirdo, or the sociopath, or viewed as anything other than a person who worked differently, but still had interesting and worthwhile things to say and do.
But there's just so much out there in terms of entertainment that trying to judge anybody for not being interested (or for said thing falling down the list in favor of things they are more interested in) more often says more about the person doing the judging than it does about the person making decisions about their entertainment.
Here's my reason for not being interested in things that I can't relate to. I'm autistic, I don't naturally relate to anybody (in terms of socially). Between going to school, dealing with doctors/specialists, trying to socialize and expand my social circle to more than just me and my extended family, trying to deal with the baggage of being told for 26 years it was all in my head (and my life crumbling around me when no one gave a damn about actually listening to/helping me), I'm exhausted at the end of the day. If you presented me with a game where I was to play a girl romancing a dude, its not that I wouldn't do it, just that looks like work (in addition to it being even further from relating to fellow heterosexual men, which I have difficulty doing in the first place). What I want is entertainment, so I would take that, and then go in search of experiences that I would find entertaining (which does involve white male protagonists who I relate to easier because at least I look like them, even if I can't relate to anything beyond that ).
But everyone deserves to have entertainment that they can enjoy, and I totally get why having someone who looks like you or that you can relate to is important. But I do try to keep in mind that while being able to relate to people is important, relating to people (even fictional ones) is also work. The further the fictional person is from who you are, the more work it is. Skilled writing can reduce this workload (as can a variety of things), but its never no work. And should someone decide that they'd rather go for something they can find entertaining, I can't really fault them for that.
Vivian in JPN Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, shamelessly self-censored in the English and...German localizations.
Hope this is retconned back to canon in Paper Mario 3 if Vivian shows up!
I think it will have a profound cultural effect one day when the people complaining about having to rp from a perspective of people not like themselves move out of their comfort zones and privilege and engage in these perspectives because empathy is only ever good for society. So bring on as much variety and diversity as there can be and give them no choice but to engage or lose out on multiple great experiences
That's a beautiful gif and sentiment, thank you
Thanks and thanks for all the work you do to keep this place awesome
Thank you and I love your icon! Korrasami <3
Thank you for saying this and for your lovely words
Thanks TalonJH
Thank you all for your kind words, you're all very sweet
I am not a woman, I am not Arab, and I am not Gay, and I am happy that we are still different, stay free, and this gif below belongs to us
I don't care if it is cheesy XD
That's a beautiful gif and sentiment, thank you
Thanks
and thanks for all the work you do to keep this place awesomeThank you and I love your icon! Korrasami <3
That's so... heartwarming to read, in a sense that feels so literal. You may need to tell us that, but I think many of us also need to read that, to remind us that GAF is actually pretty sweet all things considered and it does help people feel welcome. I'm glad to be part of it, and I'll keep pushing to make it as inclusive as possible.
Edit: And something very important I forgot to mention: as much as you benefit from GAF being a place you feel welcome, GAF as a whole also benefits immensely from having more diverse life experiences and points of view. So, as part of GAF, thank you for being here and enriching it.
Thank you for saying this and for your lovely words
Thanks TalonJH
Thank you all for your kind words, you're all very sweet