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Fighting Games Weekly | June 3-9 | Getting Put On Blast

soakrates

Member
I hope the F2P model for DOA5U is successful. One concern I have is that it will be somewhat prohibitive to character match-up practice and testing, promotion periods notwithstanding. Maybe Team Ninja could meet players halfway and allow unlocked characters to be used in training mode only or something.

Either way, I'm excited to see how it turns out. It could provide another avenue for more niche fighting games to find an audience and keep catering to the ones they already have.
 

Busaiku

Member
If every fighting game was on Wii U, then the FGC wouldn't ignore the Wii U.
By the time Tatsunoko vs Capcom Ultimate All Stars came out, Dead or Alive 4, Virtua Fighter 5, Soul Calibur IV, Street Fighter IV, Tekken 6, and BlazBlue Calamity Trigger came out for 360/PS3, of course nobody was gonna bother with a Wii.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Fucking awful model.

It's not even F2P... its F2P with a few characters and you have to buy the rest. $100 to buy all the characters + $15 for the story mode.

It's compatible with the regular game though for online play, so people can get whatever version makes sense for them.
 

FlyFaster

Member
I went through the current spreadsheet So far it looks like "international competition" means Australians, Canadians, South Americans, and Xian. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the biggest SF4 supporter in the GAF-FGC, but SF4 only gets really exciting when the big name internationals come out and so far all we have is Xian.

SF4 draws bigger numbers at majors most of the time, but it's always kicked to the curb for Marvel because the audience(live and stream) gets more hype for that game and enjoy it more. Only when you get guys like Infiltration, Daigo, Tokido, or Mago out is when SF4 out does or matches Marvel in hype(OK, maybe not, but it still gets pretty hype) and stream numbers. I'm still crossing my fingers that some of those guys I mention show up.

Oh I 100% agree with you! Jabaily made it sound like they were all coming, Daigo, Mago, Tokido, Sako, Infiltration, ect....

Ya, without them it's not as interesting. I agree that when the big names come over for SF4 its just as hype if not more so then Marvel.


EDIT:

on the rumors of MvC4

Seriously if don't give Iron Man some goddamn buffs and some goddamn new moves I'm going to be pissed. They treat the motherfucker like he's Guile. I've written long diatribes on this issue on SRK and other places but needless to say, Iron Man needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up. The entire character is a walking travesty in MvC3.

edit2:


found them

If there was another version of the game I'd like Iron Man to get a few new moves.

I'm coming from a total scrub perspective, I know, but I want Tony to reflect his comic/movie counter part better. No way in 10 years Tony wouldn't have upgraded his suit at all. He has the same moves he had in MvC2. I'd like to see him with an extra move or two. Tons of stuff to draw from in both movies and comics. Wrist rockets, melee moves, tracking missiles, a command throw, ect. Also, fix his dashes and give him double jump back.

Anyway, I feel like they treat him like Guile. Same moves and nothing changes.


This was a post I put up on Capcom Unity to try and get some answers or at least make the issue known.
tl;dr
Why does Iron Man have the exact same moves in both MvC2 and MvC3? He is wearing a different and newer armor in MvC3 and his moveset should reflect that seeing as Armor upgrades are such a central part of the character.



Iron Man has always upgraded his armor throughout the comics and the movies have done a good job keeping that part of his story intact. This is something I have thought about before but after recently watching the new Iron Man 3 trailer www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EjG-1U3wqA and seeing yet newer armor (omg!) I thought of this again and was hoping to get some kind official response.



As Tony has upgraded his suit in the comics they have gotten better in various ways such as new armaments, devices, mobility, ect. This has been a hallmark of his story and the movies have followed suit. My problem is that the games, specifically, the MvC series that Capcom has made, has largely ignored this aspect of Iron Man. An aspect that I would claim is one of the most defining features of Iron Man as a character because the various suit upgrades display Tony's most impressive characteristic -- his mind.


In MvC2 Iron Man is undoubtedly wearing the Modular Armor which was both popular and saw a lot of use in the 90s era comics.
IRON+MAN+MODULAR+ARMOR.jpg


Below is an image of the Iron Man sprite in MvC2 for comparison:
Mvc2-Ironman.png


The top left sprite is a dead ringer for the Modular Armor and makes perfect sense being used when the game came out.

In MvC2 Iron Man had the following moves:
Unibeam (air ok)
Smart Bombs (controllable distance, air ok)
Repulsar Blast
Flight (Air ok)


Fast Forward to MvC3 and we see that Iron Man is wearing a new armor to reflect modern times. The armor he wear in MvC3 is almost certianly based off of the Mark VI armor used in Iron Man 2 and the first half of the Avengers. It's not sleek enough to be based off the Extremis armor and the helmet is wrong. Although what's funny is that the Mark VI itself was based off the Extremis armor and is part of the reason they used the triangular arc reactor for the suits chest. There are other reasons as well but my point here is to show how similar they are.

Here is Iron man in MvC3:
mvc3_iron_man_by_zayab129-d38wg1o.jpg


For comparison, here is Iron Man in the Mark VI armor:

Iron-Man-2-mark-VI-armor-poster.jpg



Other than the fact that the Model shown in the movie is about 1000x more detailed (lol) they look quite similar.

Yet... In MvC3 series Iron Man has the following moves:

Unibeam (air ok)
Smart Bombs (air ok, can no longer control distance)
Repulsar Blast
Flight (Air ok)

Not only does Tony gain no new abilities....He actually loses an ability in MvC3!


My question is why did Capcom make this choice? Iron Man is clearly wearing a newer and more advanced armor in the MvC3 series and yet he largely has the exact same moveset.

I know that he gained the "upwards" hyper beam and a level 3 hyper move, but his basic move set, i.e. the moves you will use the most and that will win or lose you matches, have remained the same, actually worse as Iron Man can no longer control the distance of his Smart Bombs.


Why didn't Capcom take into account the history of the Character and upgrade more than the way that he looks? There are literally hundreds of things that could have been done to him. I am not talking about making him overpowered or top tier. I am talking about making him a more dynamic character to better reflect who he is. It would have gone a long way in not only showing that Capcom cares about these characters but that that you guys are aware of the things that are honestly pretty basic from a fans perspective.


I know that it's way too late to change anything now but I wanted to put this out there and see what Capcom has to say and if nothing else maybe, just maybe the next time Capcom does work on the character, in whatever capacity, fundamental things like this won't get overlooked.
 

sleepykyo

Member
It's not even F2P... its F2P with a few characters and you have to buy the rest. $100 to buy all the characters + $15 for the story mode.

Sounds like LoL and that game does fine. If someone buys the game at the end of DOA5's life or need to have every character, the f2p model is pretty expensive. If they're only going to use 2 characters (which isn't unusual) the price isn't that bad.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Fucking awful model.

It's not even F2P... its F2P with a few characters and you have to buy the rest. $100 to buy all the characters + $15 for the story model

What? It's a great model.

The retail version will still be available for people who want the full game. This is just a piecemeal option for people who aren't committed. It also promotes people trying the game's online, and creates a larger pool of online players for everyone. It's a glorified demo, with unlimited online play of four characters.
 

FlyFaster

Member
I have been thinking about f2p figthers for a long time now.

I think it's a model that could work eventually. And, hell, when/if DOA5 f2p comes to the states, I'll finally play it. That's something no amount of marketing or sales could ever do. I am just not that interested to make the investment. But when something is free, I have a much easier time getting in the door. I'm much more open to trying it now.

Selling the fighters themselves is a poor decision. There needs to be a way to earn them without paying for them. It's a basic requirement of the game lol, you have to have fighters to play with and against... it's a fighting game. Bad Move.


Things they can (and should) sell

- customized colors for outfits
- Costumes
- hats, wings, rings, ect. (accessories)
- Stages
- Music
- hit effects/hit sparks (different colors)
- Custom HUDs

just to name a few off the top of my head.
 

Chavelo

Member
Fucking awful model.

It's not even F2P... its F2P with a few characters and you have to buy the rest. $100 to buy all the characters + $15 for the story mode.

Haha, yeah right. You will go ahead and sell your left nut if they made MvC4 as a F2P game just to have some spare cash to buy Vergil and the 10 costumes for him.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I have been thinking about f2p figthers for a long time now.

I think it's a model that could work eventually. And, hell, when/if DOA5 f2p comes to the states, I'll finally play it. That's something no amount of marketing or sales could ever do. I am just not that interested to make the investment. But when something is free, I have a much easier time getting in the door. I'm much more open to trying it now.

Selling the fighters themselves is a poor decision. There needs to be a way to earn them without paying for them. It's a basic requirement of the game lol, you have to have fighters to play with and against... it's a fighting game. Bad Move.


Things they can (and should) sell

- customized colors for outfits
- Costumes
- hats, wings, rings, ect. (accessories)
- Stages
- Music
- hit effects/hit sparks (different colors)
- Custom HUDs

just to name a few off the top of my head.

I think selling the fighters themselves is fine. They included several characters in the core version, and you can play against any of the other characters. They even talked about having certain weeks with free access to certain members of the roster. If you include the entire roster and allow free online play, then no one is going to buy your game.

DOA5U isn't fp2 in the traditional way. I think this method makes much more sense for a fighting game. I have no issues with this model because it doesn't change anything for someone like me, who will just buy the disc versions every time, but it still allows for more flexibility for the less devoted.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Why does Iron Man have the exact same moves in both MvC2 and MvC3? He is wearing a different and newer armor in MvC3 and his moveset should reflect that seeing as Armor upgrades are such a central part of the character.
Because Capcom is lazy and just likes reusing moves/assets from previous games.

Like Magneto and his heavy rushdown play.

Haha, yeah right. You will go ahead and sell your left nut if they made MvC4 as a F2P game just to have some spare cash to buy Vergil and the 10 costumes for him.
I have not bought a single Marvel 3 DLC. Haven't even bought the Vergil costume.

I have not spent a penny on DOTA 2 and continue to enjoy full game play content. Not this candy ass pay $100 to complete the roster. At least there's a retail version available for DOA but the model itself (standalone) is garbage.

Sounds like LoL and that game does fine. If someone buys the game at the end of DOA5's life or need to have every character, the f2p model is pretty expensive. If they're only going to use 2 characters (which isn't unusual) the price isn't that bad.
LoL also has a grind to get all the characters option which I have not seen in this DOA game. Not to say LoL's model is the paragon of great F2P models but that game at least has an alternate option to getting heroes/runes than forking up money.
 

Horseress

Member
I feel like betting....so...10 bucks on Capcom announcing a new FG at E3
Don't know if it will be MvC4, but I'm pretty confident something will be announced
 

vocab

Member
What? It's a great model.

The retail version will still be available for people who want the full game. This is just a piecemeal option for people who aren't committed. It also promotes people trying the game's online, and creates a larger pool of online players for everyone. It's a glorified demo, with unlimited online play of four characters.

Constant mirrors matches is no fun.
 

kirblar

Member
Hello everyone, Ono here, look forward to our next announcement of an announcement
I suspect the SF4 2013 patch/title update/expansion is going to have a "quick to market" release after the EVO announcement. They've gotta get it out there fast to avoid the PS4 ruining their ability to push it. (A la Injustice's rapid BOMBAs..)
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Constant mirrors matches is no fun.

You can play against the entire cast. Find some friends who have the full game.

This doesn't change a thing for people who are going to buy the full game. It's only an option for cheapskates or people who weren't planning on buying the game to begin with. That's why it's more of a pseudo-f2p model.
 

Dahbomb

Member
You can play against the entire cast. Find some friends who have the full game.
Wait what?

I don't think you are understanding the argument here. We are talking about a model where this is the only option (not this "oh you can buy the retail version" which defeats the purpose of a F2P model).

Let me rephrase this... if DOA5 was F2P only what would you feel about this model? I think its garbage and any fighting game company who adopts this model should be tarred and feathered worse than SFxT.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Wait what?

I don't think you are understanding the argument here. We are talking about a model where this is the only option (not this "oh you can buy the retail version" which defeats the purpose of a F2P model).

Let me rephrase this... if DOA5 was F2P only what would you feel about this model? I think its garbage and any fighting game company who adopts this model should be tarred and feathered worse than SFxT.

Oh. Yes. I must have gotten confused at some point reading through the page.

Frankly, I don't think a traditional F2P model works for fighting games at all... but I do very much like the hybrid model that DOA5U is planning.

If there was ONLY a F2P model, and it was as listed above, then I agree it would be garbage. But that's precisely why it's not an only F2P model.
 

sleepykyo

Member
Wait what?

I don't think you are understanding the argument here. We are talking about a model where this is the only option (not this "oh you can buy the retail version" which defeats the purpose of a F2P model).

Let me rephrase this... if DOA5 was F2P only what would you feel about this model? I think its garbage and any fighting game company who adopts this model should be tarred and feathered worse than SFxT.

If it increases the user base, I'm fine with this model. I can see how it isn't the ideal model, but it is probably one of the best shots for DOA now that Microsoft isn't actively pushing Team Ninja games.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I am fine with a "hybrid" model like this because smarter/competitive players can just buy the full version and the casual/F2P fans can just get the free game and get characters they like. Casual players will get whooped by some character they don't know... get frustrated about getting beat by cheap characters they don't own... purchase said cheap character and then get beat by some other character.

Yeah Iron Man's launchers are ass. Never figured Tony Stark for a gymnastics guy.
 

soakrates

Member
I am fine with a "hybrid" model like this because smarter/competitive players can just buy the full version and the casual/F2P fans can just get the free game and get characters they like. Casual players will get whooped by some character they don't know... get frustrated about getting beat by cheap characters they don't own... purchase said cheap character and then get beat by some other character.

Yeah Iron Man's launchers are ass. Never figured Tony Stark for a gymnastics guy.
I actually think the F2P option is good for serious FG players who are a bit circumspect of the DOA series and just want a game they can tool around in and maybe play online once in a while. I find that most people who play certain games this way are only interested in a few characters at most, which makes it difficult for them to justify spending $60+ on a new game that they probably aren't going to take very seriously.

If this F2P model can reel in more of these fence-sitting types, I'm all for it. Not because I'm a huge DOA fan, but because it could be an effective way of growing the audience for less popular franchises.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Fucking awful model.

It's not even F2P... its F2P with a few characters and you have to buy the rest. $100 to buy all the characters + $15 for the story mode.

Yes, horrible, horrible model.

I'll use Marvel 3 as a specific example, but my ideal model works with most fighting games I think.

Free Content:

-Offline Versus mode (player vs player)
-Every character
-1 costume for each character. In the case of a mirror match, the second player gets an alternate costume that is not selectable through any other non-paying means.
-The main menu theme and a Marvel 3 theme that plays during matches.
-Training stage
-Each character has 1 victory quote and 1 victory pose.

Like the DOTA 2 model, you have EVERYTHING you need to play the game at a base level.

Paid Content:

-Online versus mode
-Offline versus mode (Player vs CPU)
-Single player mode (classic arcade mode, Galactus final boss)
-Character theme songs
-Marvel 2 soundtrack
-Marvel 1 soundtrack
-Alternate colors
-Alternate costumes
-Additional victory quotes and poses
-Different stages
-Training mode
-Galactus mode
-Custom tags for online mode
-Vanilla Marvel 3 HUD, other custom HUD
-Heroes and Heralds mode
-Cards for Heroes and Heralds mode
-Mission mode

And so on. I'm probably missing some features, but basically you pay for anything that isn't strictly essential. Ideally, most money would come in through cosmetics, as we all know Capcom could pump out alternate costumes/stages until the end of time.
 
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