Support NeoGAF

[Crossing Eden]

1993 or 94 called and wants harley quinn back

Now THIS is a fun and unique design. Not overly detailed, easy to remember, great balance of colors etc sucks that they keep redesigning her.

if you boil it down that far sure, but thats ignoring the entire checkerboard and the way that its implemented that you pointed out in your last post but ignored this time. its a fun design, I really like it

Yea, I ignored the checkerboard because it's undoubtedly the worst part of the whole design. Especially since it's a just a texture.

 

[Ray Down]

because its ridiculous, fun, and unique

And garbage, it's shit that you expect in really shitty animes.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Tabata seeing an objection to Cindey's presentation (design and camera) and a desire to have a female party member as a contradiction is pretty embarrassingly sexist.

He wasn't the one that said that.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I absolutely hate Cindey's design both in terms of the aesthetics and the flagrant pandering, but the thing that has me most disappointed in the game is the lack of really kick ass female characters that I associate with some of the stronger entries in the series.

Faris, Celes, Beatrix, and Freya are among my favorite characters in the series and I would love to see more female characters like them in general, even outside of Final Fantasy.

Tabata seeing an objection to Cindey's presentation (design and camera) and a desire to have a female party member as a contradiction is pretty embarrassingly sexist. I hope that his confidence in the game's presentation of women is built on what only he and the devs know about the game as opposed to what has been shown so far.

That all being said, and I hope that it keeps being said frequently and openly rather than being quarantined in a separate topic, the demo did impress me enough to be enjoyable despite any misgivings that I may have about the gender politics of the developers.

Noctis' voice never bothered me but my wife pointed out that she felt it was odd to hear such a voice from a character who looked so young. And while both of us struggled early on to really get the battle system, in time it became fairly easy to handle aside from the obvious camera issues and general bugs.

My hopes for the game remain high, but I am still more interested in the world that we have seen teased in Agni's Philosophy and I would be willing to throw some money down on a new entry in the series based on that world and aesthetic.

We havent even seen the females at this point, it's like argueing that ff13 didnt have any strong males due to only seeing the trailers, but if you mean it in a sense of playing a female, well think of this as the gender switched ffx-2/ff13-ff13-3 where we only have a male party this time(because its the story they want to tell), and noctis being the only playable character(because they want to make his gameplay style unique and varried and not have to focus on multiple play styles and delay the game even further). Also I thought that whole cindy/female party member thing was a mistranslation that was fixed.(correct me if i'm wrong)
BTW Freya sucked after disk 2, like what plot did she get afterwards?. (sir amnesia never getting finished story unless i'm forgetting something, if you said beatrix i'd be more inclined to say that was a stronger female)

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I absolutely hate Cindey's design both in terms of the aesthetics and the flagrant pandering, but the thing that has me most disappointed in the game is the lack of really kick ass female characters that I associate with some of the stronger entries in the series.

Faris, Celes, Beatrix, and Freya are among my favorite characters in the series and I would love to see more female characters like them in general, even outside of Final Fantasy.

Tabata seeing an objection to Cindey's presentation (design and camera) and a desire to have a female party member as a contradiction is pretty embarrassingly sexist. I hope that his confidence in the game's presentation of women is built on what only he and the devs know about the game as opposed to what has been shown so far.

1) We've been introduced to, what, 5 characters? And you're already declaring a lack of kick ass females in the game proper? Especially when Stella/Luna, a royal rapier wielding mage, is supposed to be one of the most important characters in the game?

2) It wasn't Tabata who said the "contradiction" line. However, standing by and letting that be said without input is not much better, and disappointing.

you cant ignore the majority of the design and then say its not unique

'Unique' doesn't absolve it for being crude and pandering.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Yea, I ignored the checkerboard because it's undoubtedly the worst part of the whole design. Especially since it's a just a texture.

you cant ignore the majority of the design and then say its not unique

 

[Mr. RHC]

That all being said, and I hope that it keeps being said frequently and openly rather than being quarantined in a separate topic

It's not a open and positive discussion you seem to be implying here.

It's constant, aggressive derailing of threads with insults because you don't like a design and you are seemingly not having your way because they are not going to change her design.

And don't mistake the "Europe's top complaint" as an indication for a majority supporting a redesign of Cindy.

"Europe" is not the Final Fantasy fanbase, it's a part of it.

Get used to it!

Love it or leave it, Cindy will be in the game as is, feel free to boycott the game.

This is Final Fantasy XV for you.

 

[AESplusF]

This thread is reaching some sort of boiling point of redundancy.

This argument isn't really even about FFXV anymore, it's getting very boring hearing the same things said over and over again without any real breakthroughs because what you're arguing about, Cindy's design, is really only tangential to the real issue. And there is no absolute objective or perfect "moral" stance, nothing is black and white here, you may think that you're point is somehow more valid than somebody else's but that person feels the same way. The horse is very very dead so please stop, or just make a new thread.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

Now THIS is a fun and unique design. Not overly detailed, easy to remember, great balance of colors etc sucks that they keep redesigning her.

It's too bad the powers that be at DC saw fit to throw her classic design in the trash. Although she definitely wasn't alone in that experience.

 

[SolidSnakex]

And don't mistake the "Europe's top complaint" as an indication for a majority supporting a redesign of Cindy.

It's also worth pointing out that her design wasn't Europe's top complaint

Tabata’s comment: “The frame rate was the most common feedback from North America and Europe, wasn’t it?

http://gematsu.com/2015/04/final-fa...full-report-episode-duscae-2-0-coming-mid-may

 

[Hades Hotgun]

He wasn't the one that said that.

My mistake on the specifics of that then, but it does seem from the interview that he doesn't disagree with the statement, so I feel like that still is a tacit acknowledgement of agreement on his part. If its just a translation issue, then it is what it is.

... if you said beatrix i'd be more inclined to say that was a stronger female)

I did say Beatrix. But I do also really liked Freya. I enjoyed the somewhat bittersweet quality of her reunion with Sir Fratley.

1) We've been introduced to, what, 5 characters? And you're already declaring a lack of kick ass females in the game proper? Especially when Stella/Luna, a royal rapier wielding mage, is supposed to be one of the most important characters in the game?

Not at all. As I stated...

I hope that his confidence in the game's presentation of women is built on what only he and the devs know about the game as opposed to what has been shown so far.

If that wasn't entirely clear then let me reassure you, I am saying that I hope what has yet to be shown relieves my concerns. I am making my best judgment regarding the material as presented thus far and withholding and final conclusion until I can see all that is offered.

I certainly hope to see the armored lady from the much earlier videos make a return. However, I would be much more interested to see some great female party members, as was the case with all of my examples (though admittedly Beatrix was only temporary).

 

[Death Penalty]

I certainly hope to see the armored lady from the much earlier videos make a return.

If you're talking about the dragoon, this was just an enemy unit and not a character with any significance.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

It's not a open and positive discussion you seem to be implying here.

It's constant, aggressive derailing of threads with insults because you don't like a design and you are seemingly not having your way because they are not going to change her design.

Sorry friend, but I didn't insult anyone, nor have I derailed any threads, aggressively or otherwise. You might look at how you have chosen to react to my comments and take a moment to consider what has you so bent out of shape.

edit:

If you're talking about the dragoon, this was just an enemy unit and not a character with any significance.

Word? But she looked so awesome. Then again, Dragoon's pretty much always look awesome.

 

[Kagari]

This thread...

 

[Mr. RHC]

Sorry friend, but I didn't insult anyone, nor have I derailed any threads, aggressively or otherwise. You might look at how you have chosen to react to my comments and take a moment to consider what has you so bent out of shape.

You are really asking me, the guy with a Kratos avatar, why I got bent out of shape?

 

[SolidSnakex]

My mistake on the specifics of that then, but it does seem from the interview that he doesn't disagree with the statement, so I feel like that still is a tacit acknowledgement of agreement on his part. If its just a translation issue, then it is what it is.

I don't really see how you could get that from the report. His stance on Cidney is that the team likes her design so he doesn't want to change it. But he does feel that they may have presented her improperly (like the camera angles), and that's something they will address. And as far as female party members goes, he says that those four are the main party members and that'll stay the same. But there will be guest party members along the way, and some of them will almost certainly be female.

I'll add this

Final Fantasy XV’s main cast is all male, and it was a conscious decision made by both of the game’s directors. Despite this, Director Hajime Tabata admits that “it’s not healthy to have a bias in genders.”

Tabata said, “The party members being all men was something that [former director] Tetsuya Nomura had kept as a very important element of this journey. He wanted to depict a story in which a group of men, a group of friends, journey throughout the world. So that’s something that I kept in Final Fantasy XV.”

What that means for Final Fantasy XV’s female characters remains to be seen. “There will be prominent women who make an appearance in the game,” Tabata noted, some of whom you can see in the latest trailer, and have been revealed previously.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/23/tgs-2014-final-fantasy-15-director-gender-bias-is-not-healthy

Cidney isn't one of those prominent women as he's already said that she doesn't play a big role in the game as a whole. She's largely just your mechanic.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's not a open and positive discussion you seem to be implying here.

It's constant, aggressive derailing of threads with insults because you don't like a design and you are seemingly not having your way because they are not going to change her design.

Whoa whoa, when were there insults?

It's too bad the powers that be at DC saw fit to throw her classic design in the trash. Although she definitely wasn't alone in that experience.

Yea it really sucks. It's because that design was never meant to be realistic and DC is getting more realistic.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

This thread...

Needs to be killed ;_; people are not even discussing the game, just mindless design choices.

 

[wmlk]

Cidney's Fantasy XV.

 

[Koozek]

Guys, watch the Agni tech demo instead.

 

[Falk]

This thread...

You'd think that stuff like the controls scoring 7.4 (lowest) or music scoring 9.3 (highest) would be worth discussing, or the changes to combat, or a couple dozen other things that provide a little insight into what was cut from the demo to make it in time.

But it was a pipe dream.

Guys, watch the Agni tech demo instead.

You can't escape.

 

[Ray Down]

This thread...

Can't wait for the OT for XV and people will still be talking about this.

Although just wait till we hear about the whole Luna & Stella situation, that could eclipse this.

 

[Kagari]

Needs to be killed ;_; people are not even discussing the game, just mindless design choices.

Yeah...
well they're not changing it. I don't want them to either. Let them make the game they want to make at this point and be glad they're pulling the camera away from the more suggestive areas of her body.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Whoa whoa, when were there insults?

The people defending and trying to justify Cindy's design are either completely tone deaf misogynist or both. Theres nothing wrong with liking the design but saying it isn't a problematic design, glossing over that the design is pretty much only for male gaze, or even attempting to justify the design jsut signals that you have your head way too far up "japanese culture" to actually see the problems with it.

mi·sog·y·nist (mĭ-sŏj′ə-nĭst)
n.
One who hates or mistrusts women.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/misogynist

No, not sexism or sexist.
Misogynism it is.

In this, thread, in previous threads. Plenty.

 

[Newboi]

You'd think that stuff like the controls scoring 7.4 (lowest)

In your opinion:

1) Why do you think the controls were scored this low?

2) What did you think of the controls?

I think immediacy is the real issue here. things like a less cumbersome lock on and dodge canceling will remedy most of the complaints.

I personally think the tutorial did a pretty poor job of explaining the nuances of the combat. You can be pretty fast and dangerous if you know how to properly pull off more of the advanced techniques.

 

[Kagari]

In your opinion:

1) Why do you think the controls were scored this low?

2) What did you think of the controls?

I think immediacy is the real issue here. things like a less cumbersome lock on and dodge canceling will remedy most of the complaints.

I personally think the tutorial did a pretty poor job of explaining the nuances of the combat. You can be pretty fast and dangerous if you know how to properly pull off more of the advanced techniques.

Well, to start pressing R3 for full lockon is really annoying.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Sorry friend ...

We are not friends.

 

[Falk]

A lot of the bullet points directly contribute to controls being a complaint.

- Animation cancelling? If implemented, makes the game more responsive.

- Lock-on being obtuse/poorly explained? Leads to frustration w.r.t. tracking and hitting enemies

- Camera too finicky? Ditto (although I think the ATR missed the mark here in that the issue wasn't so much distance from the action as it is FOV, especially when the former doesn't do anything for enclosed areas like the cave while the latter does)

Personally I felt that the game as it is without animation cancelling, or with animation cancelling as a high-level ability with high opportunity cost (armiger slots, mp, whatever) was A-OK, but if they're going to make certain attacks cancellable, it's not a big deal to me as long as their QA/balancing people are on the ball with it.

I'm personally surprised Tutorial scored that high when it was quite useless at the finer points of combat. Yeah I know it's thrown together specifically for Duscae and information overload and all that.

 

[Crossing Eden]

mi·sog·y·nist (mĭ-sŏj′ə-nĭst)
n.
One who hates or mistrusts women.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/misogynist

No, not sexism or sexist.
Misogynism it is.

In this, thread, in previous threads. Plenty.

Oh ok. Yea those kinda posts are completely unnecessary.

 

[Death Penalty]

Word? But she looked so awesome. Then again, Dragoon's pretty much always look awesome.

Yeah, this was confirmed by Nomura way back in the day when that trailer debuted so I'm not shocked that it isn't common knowledge at this stage. I'd actually be really interested to see her and in fact that whole segment with Insomnia being attacked with the updated graphics. It would be mindblowing.

 

[Newboi]

Well, to start pressing R3 for full lockon is really annoying.

I actually found this annoying as well. I absolutely don't see the use case of a soft lock-on. Especially if you have to hold the soft lock-on button in order for the hard lock-on button to work.

Edit: Personally, I still love the idea of having some type of move modifiers. I think they should remove the soft lock button completely and use it as a modifier button. for attacks.

 

[RocBase]

Can't we move past the female in a party ranting? The game's story has been designed and written around 4 friends, why they should force a girl in it. It's like saying "put a goddamn girl in crisis core I don't wanna play just with Zakkkkuuuusu"
Really... who cares.

I'm not saying that I want a female party member (I've been arguing in favor of XV-s all male cast decision for months now!) but just noting the blasphemous statement that those two remarks were somehow contradictory.

Though I didn't realize it wasn't Tabata that actually said it, cheers Dark castle.

 

[itzknickknac]

This game is never coming out.

Seriously. The only thing I really want is the release date, please announce it at E3.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

We are not friends.

I hear ya, pal.

Personally I felt that the game as it is without animation cancelling, or with animation cancelling as a high-level ability with high opportunity cost (armiger slots, mp, whatever) was A-OK, but if they're going to make certain attacks cancellable, it's not a big deal to me as long as their QA/balancing people are on the ball with it.

I think I agree, (assuming I understand what you meant here) balancing the risk/reward of attacks seems more important than whether you can cancel or not.

 

[benzy]

- Camera too finicky? Ditto (although I think the ATR missed the mark here in that the issue wasn't so much distance from the action as it is FOV, especially when the former doesn't do anything for enclosed areas like the cave while the latter does)

Yeah, I mentioned the FOV in the survey and that I liked the current camera distance, but I guess most people just complained thinking the camera would be better pulled back. I'm hoping they do manage to add in options to adjust camera position.

 

[Kagari]

Seriously. The only thing I really want is the release date, please announce it at E3.

Gamescom.
A release year anyway. Probably.

 

[Falk]

I actually found this annoying as well. I absolutely don't see the use case of a soft lock-on. Especially if you have to hold the soft lock-on button in order for the hard lock-on button to work.

Seems to me that the intention was:

- Tap R1 - clears targeting/locked-on mode
- Hold R1 - enters targeting mode. Gives you a reticle over enemies that you can aim at specific enemies using the camera stick (Right stick) to paint the reticle over them. Is not actually locked-on yet.
- R3 - Locks on currently targeted enemy.

Problem with that setup is that it's unnecessarily obtuse, and the confusion comes about when people think holding R1 is the lock-on when it's not. (Also the game sorta auto-aims the camera at the reticle even in targeting mode, presumably to help you keep track of where it is, which again is confusing and implies incorrectly that it's locked on)

 

[AESplusF]

The controls felt sort of incomplete

-Partly because the jump was practically useless even though it has a dedicated button, something that will hopefully be better once they add in aerial combat

-L2 and R2 have no function right now which doesn't really make any sense, thy're probably saving them for something that wasn't in the demo, maybe magic, it could be anything really

-Also, holding R1 to then hard lockon by pressing R3 is tedious it should just be a one button press

 

[Death Penalty]

I'm a little bit sad they didn't address summoning in the ATR. I saw it as a pretty prominent concern and I'd really like to hear their intents with the system explained a bit better now that it's out there in the open. Maybe it's part of the full experience thing they keep speaking about as magic is.

 

[cajunator]

good character designs. I like the mechanic one.

 

[ActuallyHulk]

Seems to me that the intention was:

- Tap R1 - clears targeting/locked-on mode
- Hold R1 - enters targeting mode. Gives you a reticle over enemies that you can aim at specific enemies using the camera stick (Right stick) to paint the reticle over them. Is not actually locked-on yet.
- R3 - Locks on currently targeted enemy.

Problem with that setup is that it's unnecessarily obtuse, and the confusion comes about when people think holding R1 is the lock-on when it's not. (Also the game sorta auto-aims the camera at the reticle even in targeting mode, which again is confusing and implies incorrectly that it's locked on)

They need to just straight up make R1 the lock-on button. None of this R3/targeting/whatever tomfoolery. If I can customize the controls in game that's the first thing I'm doing if that isn't what they do to fix it.

 

[Falk]

Tabata mentioned prior to this particular ATR that Ramuh in Episode Duscae functioned according to adapted specifications and the full game isn't the same.

Obviously in the full game you're not going to be able to instakill all the bosses by committing seppuku then summoning.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Not at all. As I stated...



If that wasn't entirely clear then let me reassure you, I am saying that I hope what has yet to be shown relieves my concerns. I am making my best judgment regarding the material as presented thus far and withholding and final conclusion until I can see all that is offered.

I certainly hope to see the armored lady from the much earlier videos make a return. However, I would be much more interested to see some great female party members, as was the case with all of my examples (though admittedly Beatrix was only temporary).

Oh, then sorry for misunderstanding. I am hopeful that the rest of the females in the game will be really strong compelling characters. I just think that Tabata chose poorly with his introduction of the women of FFXV.

Well, to start pressing R3 for full lockon is really annoying.

Yea, that alone was stupidly cumbersome, and made me awkwardly fidget with my controller. Really enjoyed the base systems tho.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

Tabata mentioned prior to this particular ATR that Ramuh in Episode Duscae functioned according to adapted specifications and the full game isn't the same.

Obviously in the full game you're not going to be able to instakill bosses by committing seppuku then summoning.

I kinda feel like that would be awesome to have happen just once though. Maybe make it less obvious, but it could be sorta like in the older games (FF4 in particular) where there were very specific tactics required to beat certain bosses.

I mostly just like the idea of specific trigger requirements for specific summons. Like the party in incapped except Noct, or all characters must have full MP or something.

 

[Death Penalty]

Tabata mentioned prior to this particular ATR that Ramuh in Episode Duscae functioned according to adapted specifications and the full game isn't the same.

Obviously in the full game you're not going to be able to instakill all the bosses by committing seppuku then summoning.

I figured, his damage seems tuned specifically to be an instakill and I'd imagine he'll be powerful but balanced in the main game. I'm more referring to the method of his summoning and how I saw a lot of folks saying they didn't want summons to be a bail out. Tabata stated that there may be other circumstances in the main game, but I would like to know more than that and how they think summons fit into the battle system.

I mostly just like the idea of specific trigger requirements for specific summons. Like the party in incapped except Noct, or all characters must have full MP or something.

I also really like this idea and it's something I've been saying since Ramuh's function was shown. For instance, Phoenix would be a PERFECT summon for the party incap requirement you mentioned.

 

[King Gilga]

This has to be a mistranslation or a troll post right? Because I find it hard to believe anybody could be this fucking stupid.

I don't even care about having a woman as a party member or not, but seriously, what the fuck? What kind of absolute moron would you have to be to make that connection?

 

[Kagari]

The marketing guy said that stuff. Let's just ignore him.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

question......if I buy Type 0 at the end of May will it not have the FFXV demo?

 

[Kagari]

question......if I buy Type 0 at the end of May will it not have the FFXV demo?

They overshipped it by quite a bit... you should be fine.

 

[Mr. RHC]

The marketing guy said that stuff. Let's just ignore him.

I kind of like him tho, he seems to be getting along nicely with Tabata.