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Forza Horizon 2 · Review Thread

--R

Banned
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Polygon, stahp.
 

Larogue

Member
The demo was the most beautiful thing I've ever played this year, glad that the reviewers are feeling the same about the full game.
 

eso76

Member
And it has nothing to do with this console generation at all. The original Gran Turismo had a 60fps mode unlocked at the end. It stripped back a lot of track detail to deliver this, but it was done on a console from the mid-90s.

Here's the thing. Developers have 100 magic computer beans. No more, no less. In every console. They can spend the beans on frame rate and on how pretty each frame is, but they will never have more than 100.

I kept saying this in every 60/30 fps thread for years.
I didn't use magic beans, though, i used RPG experience points used for agility and strenght :p

The only way 60fps/ish motion could ever become standard, is if future consoles include some chip dedicated to motion interpolation, kind of like what tv's have been doing for a few years now. In other words, when 60fps are basically free.
I remember Lucas did prototype something similar via software, but never made it in a final release
 
Almost as if they had some mysterious benefactor building half of the game for them.

All Turn10 provided the team on the first one was the cars themselves from FM4. Everything else was built from the ground up by Playground. At least that's how I remember it when I was there. Pretty unlikely they would have changed that for FH2.
 

Novak

Member
The game needs to be reviewed in Croatia, and called Gran Turismo.

Lol so true. And it has to be reviewed by that one journalist ...
Is he writting for Reboot now?

Or a successor to the Wireless Speed Wheel, which would have been great. We really need one, and soon.

I would love new speed wheel. I played fh1 with it and it was great compromise between wheel and controler. Do it MS!
 
Graphics & physics engine?

Ah good point. It's been two years since I was there, so I've forgotten some things.

They tweaked the physics engine a lot when they got their hands on it, for all the off-road stuff. Plus I remember the cars couldn't handle mounting curbs lol, it would be akin to hitting a 6ft wall.

Graphics engine I have less insight into. But I know they had to modify it a lot to support open world streaming, with things like uber-LODs & whatnot, as FM4 was track based. PG also rigged in the dynamic day/night cycle.

I'm not trying to give T10 any less credit than they deserve, I mean, this is the spin-off series after all :p. They provided a few key pieces and the rest was all Playground's efforts. T10 regressed to a sort of consulting/overseer position during development, i never, say, worked side by side with a Designer from their studio on tracks/events in FH1. They were hands off and were comfortable to let the team do their thing!

I'm very happy for my former colleagues at Playground that the game has turned out so well a second time round :)
 

driver116

Member
Seems like the gaming media have chosen their racer for this year.
I reckon Driveclub will get ripped to pieces
.

Great scores tho.
 

Spades

Member
You don't understand.

Horizon 2 could be 60fps, but less pretty.
DriveClub could be 60fps, but less pretty.
Forza Motorsport could be 30fps, and more pretty.
They are choices. Choices made this generation, last generation and will be in the next console generation.

And it has nothing to do with this console generation at all. The original Gran Turismo had a 60fps mode unlocked at the end. It stripped back a lot of track detail to deliver this, but it was done on a console from the mid-90s.

Here's the thing. Developers have 100 magic computer beans. No more, no less. In every console. They can spend the beans on frame rate and on how pretty each frame is, but they will never have more than 100.

The choice where to spend these is often made on the type of game it is. So a developer of a simulation style racing game may decide to spend 70 of those beans on the frame rate, but just 30 on making each frame pretty. The developer knows the players of this game will favour the high frame and control response over graphical flourishes and anti-aliasing.

Meanwhile a developer making an arcade style racing game might decide that making the game prettier than any other is their aim and without all the physics there's power to spare. 20 beans are used for the frame rate and 80 to make it pretty. The result a game locked at 30fps.

Then there are the complications of closed circuits versus streaming an open world. The former might need 10 beans, the latter 30 beans. Leaving you just 70 beans for frame rate and pretty graphics.

But at every stage there are clear choices of priorities. And it doesn't matter which console generation you choose there will always be these choices. The next generation won't mean every racing game will be 60fps, it will mean developers once again decide where to put the power depending on the type of game they are building.

Every console generation we get arguments like yours. And it is just wrong. Yes it would be great if Horizon 2 was 60fps. But do you know what Playground would have done if it had the console hardware to do that? Would we get this game looking like this but at 60fps? I doubt it - I bet the developer would have used that extra horsepower to make the game even more detailed and beautiful, at a locked 30fps.

That's not to say there aren't problems with some games. For example Gran Turismo 5 strives to be pretty at 60fps and fails to hit that frame rate a lot of the time. The frame rate itself is not always the problem - but the lack of consistency. Horizon is ridiculously smooth for a 30fps racer, GT5 often feels jerky even though the frame rate is higher. It seems Polyphony gave 70 magic beans for frame rate, but let the part of the game that wants to be pretty take some of those beans away sometimes. I don't like that approach. I'd rather we had 60 or 30 and locked it. Inconsistency is where problems lie. And yes in an ideal world 60fps would be great for all games. But to enforce that takes the choice away from developers. The Horizon 2 demo shows the locked 30fps works great for that game - it really is smooth and snappy enough for the kind of game it was. Forza Motorsport 6 will need to be 60 fps, as will GT7 - but their focus is different.

TL:DR you're wrong

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Outstanding post.
 
2.4 points lower on a 100 point scale? That's pretty insignificant. What are you trying to say?

But that's an average. That's a meaningless figure.

Polygon gives NFS Rivals 85
Average is 70

Polygon gives FH2 70
Average is 90

In both cases, there is a huge disparity in scores. But, on average, Polygon would score 2.5pts less than the average.

Saw what I did? You can easily manipulate an average. Best would have been to use a standard deviation.
 
Lol so true. And it has to be reviewed by that one journalist ...
Is he writting for Reboot now?

There are two of them, and at least one of them is a respected member here.

I have no idea whether they're still writing for Reboot, to be honest. I would say yes.


Ah good point. It's been two years since I was there, so I've forgotten some things.

They tweaked the physics engine a lot when they got their hands on it, for all the off-road stuff. Plus I remember the cars couldn't handle mounting curbs lol, it would be akin to hitting a 6ft wall.

Graphics engine I have less insight into. But I know they had to modify it a lot to support open world streaming, with things like uber-LODs & whatnot, as FM4 was track based. PG also rigged in the dynamic day/night cycle.

I'm not trying to give T10 any less credit than they deserve, I mean, this is the spin-off series after all :p. They provided a few key pieces and the rest was all Playground's efforts. T10 regressed to a sort of consulting/overseer position during development, i never, say, worked side by side with a Designer from their studio on tracks/events in FH1. They were hands off and were comfortable to let the team do their thing!

I'm very happy for my former colleagues at Playground that the game has turned out so well a second time round :)

I would wager that Turn 10 designed their new engine to be more flexible, since this time around they knew that it would be shared between them and Playground.

Did you have anything to do with the first Horizon? If so, come here so I can give you a hug.


Seems like the gaming media have chosen their racer for this year.
I reckon Driveclub will get ripped to pieces
.

Great scores tho.

This is not Highlander.
 

GlamFM

Banned
what the hell is wrong with polygon and their reviews? they're reviews seem to be all over the place.

Putting Horizon 2 higher than 7 would be like admitting they were completely out of touch when they gave Horizon 1 a 6.

That being said - who cares.
 

Percy

Banned
Christ but some of you are ridiculously defensive.

You don't have to agree with my views on the matter of whether the game's framerate constitutes a legitimate complaint or not, but don't treat them like I personally insulted your mum or something either.

Not sure what Percy will say about Drive Club with high review scores but only 30fps...

As for this shit... I've been making the same complaints about the framerate in Driveclub as I have about same in Forza Horizon 2 for as long as I've been posting here, only difference is no one jumps all over my ass for complaining about it in DC threads, but they do so every time in Forza threads. Funny that.

I'd gladly... gladly be expressing the exact same views wrt Driveclub when it's reviewed, but considering I haven't seen a single banner ad on any games site for the game, I get the feeling there won't be many "high scoring reviews" to worry about there.
 

GoxRx

Member
I loved the first game, I got a cheap copy during a special sale. And this time, seems like there's a lot of content so I will buy this one at launch.

Also, I like the way they built the multiplayer. On the demo was really easy/fast join other players.
 
I would wager that Turn 10 designed their new engine to be more flexible, since this time around they knew that it would be shared between them and Playground.

You're probably right. At least that's what I imagine their working relationship would evolve into.

Did you have anything to do with the first Horizon? If so, come here so I can give you a hug.

I did! I was a level designer on FH1, it was the first game I worked on in the industry :)
*hugs*
 
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