Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
This is so, so stupid. And unsurprising.
They just refuse to get it right.
They just refuse to get it right.
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Forza Horizon 3 is one the first games encrypted with Microsofts new DRM
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
Robobandit
Member
Recore uses it too and it runs fine in my experience. (just talking about performance.. that game certainly has other issues..)
Forza stutters for some people just sitting still and rotating the camera in surfer's paradise.. I highly doubt it's related.
Forza stutters for some people just sitting still and rotating the camera in surfer's paradise.. I highly doubt it's related.
OfTheOverflow
Member
Wow, fuck that. Was very excited to play my first Forza game, set in my own country even, but the combination of this and the fact that it's hideously overpriced on the Windows Store has cemented me decision to wait until both those two issues are amended.
cripterion
Member
They can keep their shit. Why keep doing dumb stuff like this?
Seems they can't stop their downfall this gen.
Seems they can't stop their downfall this gen.
At this point I'm going back to not buying anything from them and avoiding their shit when I can.
Their OS is a joke and it seriously holding the industry back by not only capping performance from the get go for meaningless shit but I cannot stand the bloat anymore I have no choice in. In windows 7 and earlier you could disable most now a lot of it is force
Desktop window manager
Base Filtering Engine
Service Index
Windows Defender
Windows Update (bandwidth hog, forces restarts and unlike steam, origin and other things cannot be controlled any longer)
All still hit certain machines I run even off fresh installs, including this. People can check for what services be it MS or 3rd party are spiking there shit not hard to spot what is causing stuttering between them hitting the cpu cycles, hogging interruptsm and the IO at the same time.
They know it. The more exes you the more you're I/O in windows gets fucked and becomes less responive, yet no one who benchmarks will run a dpc profiler or an IO and just look at the alarming performance of windows fresh and no crap vs bloated windows after even a few weeks. SSD and hyper ram drive can't fix. No cpu can fix and with the shitty scheduler on top of the pitiful interrupt performance in windows gamers shouldn't be blaming devs that much anymore. Some of these problems with stuttering are all on MS and they have done shit since 7 to really fix the big ones.
Reallink
Member
A few years ago I would have told you PC piracy was likely turning would be 3-5 million unit sellers to 300-500k sellers. Then Denuvo happened and successfully blocked cracks for several months (7 or 8 months in some cases), yet didn't seem to effect sales much at all. Wholly uncracked titles sold basically what you would have expected, with or without effective protection. This is evidenced by the fact that Denuvo (who have a product to advertise/sell) aren't shouting from the mountain how they've quadrupled X's projected sales. Haven't even seen a "as much a XX% increase in sales" claim. Similarly neither have any of the publishers, or their financial reports. Popular estimates place successful Denuvo implementations at maybe 10-15% increase. Functionally, that doesn't make any difference, they were losing more on manufacturing and B&M retail cuts. Certainly it's not going to fund a sequel, greenlight a new IP, or finance a port that never existed. The benefit to consumers is absolute Zero.
Please tell us more about mentalities we should have, person who is clearly familiar with the platform.
Nah he's totally right, piracy destroys so many companies, and totally justifies The most restrictive DRM possible.
I mean look at CDPred who released a version of witcher 3 with no DRM in place!
They were cripp...Oh wait...
Funny, in the last thread about encrypted UWPs people told me not to worry, just because the feature exists doesn't mean that it will be used.
Right, the enormous success of the piracy-proof UWP platform compared to platforms prone to piracy such as Steam (which merely work against it by providing their users with the best possible experience) shows that this is the case.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Do you think that users coming back to PC from more closed walled gardens have be expectations of a platform that has the best PC can offer, complete updatability of HW components, but are essentially asking for a consolized PC? I would understand if it upset people as a PC-fied console constantly changing HW components does. It sound hot to me either.:. I like each platform for the great things each can provide.
Some of them, sure.
Hopefully now that consoles have upgrades they can just stick with that.
Sucks. Not a fan of this kind of DRM, and all the stuff Microsoft has been doing recently with Windows 10 gaming. Really love how the game looks but with all this mess going on.. I think I will wait until they do something about most of their issues before purchasing anything from them.
haven't people been modding H5:forge though
Yeah. And Halo 5 doesnt stutter and Recore has it also and runs fine. So dont think its related to stutter.
Cant believe why so many people are mad really. Its against piracy.
From what i understood the UWP/Appx wasnt the problem with it ... problem was forced xbox app and the underlying DRM (Quantum Break had none apart from Remedy's usual pirate eye-patch) in case of GoWUE it was Arxlan anti-tamper , and its most likely this Arxlans is there under encrypted appx tgames aswell . (Recore, FH3 and most likely GoW4)
As for whats the point? I guess MS is trying to make xboxes out of steam
i guess this will answer your question (on the lefdt is try to unpack eappx) from reddit
pretty much its just there to battle pirates , who will break it in the long run and in the end they will be the ones with superior experience
Pyramid head
Banned
Do they need to understand that 'piracy prevention' is also more important than the game running smoothly too?
A more competent company could get people to buy their games without shitting the bed at every turn.
User123456
Member
Sigh. UWP can't die fast enough. GFWL 2.0 was a very accurate description of the whole mess.
metareferential
Member
Too bad I bought the game full price.
At least I got Gears 4 from a nvidia code.
At least I got Gears 4 from a nvidia code.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Looks like I wasn't far off when I said Microsoft was trying to give the console like experience with the Windows 10 store!
I don't know what the stuttering cause is on FH3, BUT, I don't think Halo 5 Forge uses streaming because every level can fit on ram, so it only will decrypt files in loading time, no during gameplay.
theindieboy
Member
Will this be available to every dev do we know? Is so will there be any kind of QA or checking? If anyone can use this, does this not pose a treat for virus and malware/adware etc as scanning software will not be able to check it? There clearly will be some load on the machine to de-encrypt as well which seems like a waste of resources to me. To be honest as a PlayStation console owner who is flirting with getting a gaming PC (cause need to replce my pc) the whole windows store stuff is really off putting, plus no sunset over drive right? Might just save the money when upgrading my pc and not bother with a hardcore graphics card, can still play the indies on steam still that way, and then maybe pick up a second hand xbox on the cheap when i see one would probably work out costing less.
texhnolyze
Banned
I also believe it's indeed their true intention.
Auto-Reply
Member
Just ignore the store completely, I find it very easy to do. There are games that would have been great to play (the latest Gears of War 4 weather gameplay looks great) but there is enough out there that it doesn't sting. Life goes on.
luckily the windows store is just the tiny consolized fraction (so far just couple games) but who knows whats next ....
SmartWaffles
Member
People have eliminated the stuttering by disabling core 0 in task manager and set horizon 3's priority to low (on hyperthreading CPUs at least), which in theory actually lowers CPU performance on said app, so I actually doubt this has anything to do with the stutter at all.
justsomeguy
Member
Ooh - interesting. Wonder if it explains some of the hyperthreading issues too?
justsomeguy
Member
While there's a lot of validity in this IMO, it doesn't cover the fact that Denuvo isn't on every game therefore it's possible that "the people who pirate" just pirated and played other pirated games instead of buying the Denuvo games... I suspect this is because for some people there's just that culture of not paying for content so they just shrug and play something else instead.
If every game was protected with Denuvo, then we might have a valid basis for comparison but IMO at the moment you can't really draw a conclusion that piracy doesn't impact sales based on the titles that have Denuvo today. The only thing it does is help publishers know that those pirates are on somebody else's game instead.
texhnolyze
Banned
The thing is, more and more publishers are resorting to Denuvo nowadays. Last year, Ubisoft, Bethesda, SquareEnix, Bandai Namco, and even the smaller ones and indies haven't used Denuvo. This year, they've started to use it. At the current rate, we'll only be getting more Denuvo games instead of less of them. If you choose to ignore games from those publishers, be my guest. Apparently the majority of PC gamers don't care.
It had no actual DRM other than the store itself and even that implementation had a loophole, that's why it was bypassed.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Steam version only has Steam as DRM too.
So really, it could just be really bad CPU optimization on T10s part and not the encryption service ?
Billy Big Bollocks
Banned
Microsoft really don't understand PC gaming. What a shame, this was going to be the first Microsoft Studios game I have bought since Motorcross Madness 2.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'm very disappointed in hearing how the PC port turned out. You almost had my money Microsoft. Almost.
We'll see how long it takes you to fix the PC version. If you even bother to.
We'll see how long it takes you to fix the PC version. If you even bother to.
Some people get a better experience by doing that, it did nothing for me on my machine.
SmartWaffles
Member
Plus the same stutter happens in Apex which does not use the encryption and can also be eliminated by disabling core 0.
Although this doesn't mean encryption/DRM is not a bad thing.
I was having some of the worst issues around here this past weekend so I PM'ed Turn10's community manager on here to provide detailed bug reports. No response after asking if I uninstalled and reinstalled.
To me that said they have no plans of actually fixing it if they don't even want specific bug reports.
It's most likely just as unrelated to game performance as Denuvo.
theindieboy
Member
The problem is those are the only real AAA games that i want to play on PC as am a big trophy hunter. Steam is clearly the place to be but most of the stuff i want is just the wierd and wonderful indie stuff so should not need a massive graphics card for that right? To be honest on reason i was considering it was cause i need to update my pc for general useage getting a bit too slow.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
The encryption does not explain the CPU usage. I believe AES decryption wouldn't take much CPU time relative to the amount of content being loaded, given the amount of bandwidth you can get with the CPU running with *just* AES operations. Decryption these days tends to be rather user transparent and you're more likely to be storage bottlenecked.
It's probably the game engine.
It's probably the game engine.