SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Turn 10 isn't the developer, so I don't think you'd get an answer from them. I believe Playground Games does the Horizon titles.
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Forza Horizon 3 is one the first games encrypted with Microsofts new DRM
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
Turn 10 isn't the developer, so I don't think you'd get an answer from them. I believe Playground Games does the Horizon titles.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Good. With MS going cross platform, something has to be done to make a game play fairly by not allowing modifications to those games. It's why I left PC gaming in the early 2000s. If you give people unlimited access to everything and regulate nothing, people will take advantage. It's human nature. Enough of the PC wild west of piracy and cheating.
Game engine seems fine - game runs and looks great on X1. Seems more like average port, really.
dr_rus
Member
Very doubtful that using any kind of file system encryption would result in CPU issues on modern 4+ cores i7s. CPU decryption throughput should be way higher than even the fastest SSDs read speeds.
No. At this point of their advancement nothing is bad for SSDs but the temperatures above 100C.
But you left already.
No. At this point of their advancement nothing is bad for SSDs but the temperatures above 100C.
But you left already.
NoPiece
Member
There is a tool to rip Forza 3 & 4 models, some of which ended up in mods for other PC racing games, so maybe they are trying to slow that down.
boneyjangles
Member
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah, no way this is responsible for the current issues in FH3. I mean it might be linked, but more of a bug than by intention. I'm confident they will fix the performance.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
Sometimes I wonder if there's a case of misplaced expectations. I mean I can surmise with identical hardware, Apex to Horizon nets you half the frame rate at identical settings (at least judging from people with 970s at 1080p. Could be wrong though.) - exact same deal with the Xbox One.
dmix90
Member
Unfortunately it managed to become worse than GFWL in every possible way. I have no idea how they could mess up absolutely everything and not be able to fix their own mess for years. Also Phil's bullshit is still fresh.... remember how he promised overlay support, mods, multiGPU etc? Yeah that was not a long time ago......so far they do exact opposite of that( except for Vsync toggle......what an achievement for software giant! )
This. Sounds like the quote in the OP is spreading fud potentially.
Ah, yes, MS are totally worried about piracy affecting sales. See, they really want some good sales, and that's why they're releasing it on the W10 store.
True but they've been in the PC thread doing support so I sent it to them.
deadscreensky
Member
Yeah. I think it's obvious there are multiple problems affecting performance in both Forza titles. I could see this DRM being part of that in Horizon 3, of course, but I doubt very much it's a silver bullet.
I wouldn't worry so much.
Well, in this case PC players would be coming to meet him regardless. Note the mention of cross-platform.
Memorabilia
Member
It's quaint that people actually still think DRM works to prevent piracy.
Edit:
And this.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
They are doing a good job of peaking my interest back into PC with these changes.
Conkerkid11
Member
It's a major problem when those who pirate the game end up with a better product than those who purchased it.
Refunding and only considering buying again if these performance issues are ever fixed.
I'm not supporting GFWL 2.0
Edit: Since when did 90% of GAF become computer experts? How do all of you know that encrypting and decrypting assets on the fly in an open world racing game isn't causing performance issues?
Refunding and only considering buying again if these performance issues are ever fixed.
I'm not supporting GFWL 2.0
Edit: Since when did 90% of GAF become computer experts? How do all of you know that encrypting and decrypting assets on the fly in an open world racing game isn't causing performance issues?
Yeah it would seem pretty stupid to encrypt all assets if efs really requires that much cpu overhead for reads..
I'm completely fine with DRM but when it comes at the large cost of performance then what is even the point?
I actually feel stupid for being burned twice now by MS on PC. I said after Quantumn break, never again but the thought of FH on PC made my mouth water.
Never again.!...
I actually feel stupid for being burned twice now by MS on PC. I said after Quantumn break, never again but the thought of FH on PC made my mouth water.
Never again.!...
luckily this incentive to turn PC into Xbox has been limited only to MS games so far ... and i just dont trust that microsoft will do better job securing my system than myself.
and i tried with FH3 to give this windows store/UWP/appx abomination a chance ... but it only drained my download limit (failed 3x at cca 75% of download because of little connection hitch and started from 0 ) ... so refund was right choice just too much of a hassle (honestly felt even worse than steam was back in its green days)
+1 I learned my lesson
Indeed.
They will support games decades after their initial developers ceased to exist.
They will improve the graphical and rendering quality beyond anything the original version featured.
They will add new feature sets to whole swathes of games and allow you to play them with new input and output devices released long after the game.
They will sometimes even make games which only support 30 FPS run at 60.
And all without re-buying a "remaster". It really is terrible.
This smells like bullshit to me. Decryption of AES is accelerated on a modern CPU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES_instruction_set
Bitlocker barely affects performance on a PC and that's full disk encryption.
Also you'd be silly not to enable it, because if someone steals your hard drive they can get all your passwords in a matter of seconds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES_instruction_set
Bitlocker barely affects performance on a PC and that's full disk encryption.
Also you'd be silly not to enable it, because if someone steals your hard drive they can get all your passwords in a matter of seconds.
Bl@de
Member
amdb00mer
Member
Did you watch the Digital Foundry video? How were they able to run it at 4k 60FPS without the stutter if EFS is the issue. They ran it at 1080p 60FPS and thats when the real stutter happened. seems there is driver issues across the board. As everybody else has said, lets wait for a more reliable source to confirm if it is the EFS system or not.
Also, why would it constantly need to encrypt? Once it is downloaded and installed it should only need to be encrypted once.
installed game is encrypted by default , so it must decrypt somehow on the fly as from what i understood UWP sideloads the game from the OS .... really wonder if the Arxlan DRM is underneath it aswell , when they have OS-level DRM already in
TBiddy
Member
Because it isn't particularly taxing on the CPU.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
And I won't get a fair chance in most Competitive MP games, which is mostly all I care about. You're right. It is terrible. I give less than a damn about the rest of that. If you are buying games on PC that Is so broken it'll require mods and hacks in the future, stop buying those games and giving the devs a pass to release it in those states on PC.
amdb00mer
Member
How do you know it is?
Also, everybody stop with the whole effin GFWL 2.0 crap.
Anybody that was thinking of buying the game for PC, hold off there will be a demo soon and hopefully by then this performance bug will be squashed.
Also for all those people going on about Phil Spencer and saying Windows 10 would support mods, he never said Forza Horizon 3 would. Before you go nuts wait until a AAA game is actually released on the Win10 store that is supposed to have mod support. If the DRM prevents that, then you can bitch about it.
BTW: Did day fixed that bug? which was causing ReCore to be online-only?
since when this I am MP-only and I dont care, so fuck you attitude helped?
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Let's not put words in my mouth. It's OBVIOUSLY personal opinions on how it affects me. Do I need to put IMO to make that clear or can we discuss things as a forum does?
You really don't understand at all what he's talking about
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Sometimes mods fix bugs. Sometimes they alter the rules of the game, creating entirely new experiences. Sometimes they add tons of new content for free. It's not just about fixing bugs.
Durante is talking about people making old games for XP running on Win10, an OS they were never supposed to run on when they releases, about retroactively patching in new hardware periphals that did not exist at the time, as well as the general idea of people improving on games, not just about fans patching together broken games.
Hey, hey buddy.
I'mma give you a hint about the PC world of gaming.
Here, in the PC land, it's assumed by "default" that a game is modable. Because when you have direct access to the file structure, it would be silly for it to not be modable. This goes back for as long as PC gaming has been around. A developer doesn't have to "state" the game has modding support (although really that would help). It's just a reality of the PC platform that modding is a thing.
Now, Microsoft (and many others) wish to take that away, because modding impairs their ability to sell you stuff after the fact, or enforce F2P style mechanics in single player games. There's no holistic "We're trying to protect the quality of gameplay" reason here. It's sacrificing everything that PC gaming has ever known in the never ending (and ultimately failing) battle against piracy on a platform that I can't imagine even has the sales numbers to justify it in the first place.
Edit: I just noticed LuvOfThaGame's entire post history since creation has essentially been running defense for anything and everything Xbox (and new age Microsoft by proxy). So I'm not really shocked at the attitude he's having towards PC gaming
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
I understand that. Those old games are not getting updated with new DRM either, so that still remains possible. Developers that use the new DRM encryption software are putting the games future 100% in their control, which is great to me. If devs don't give you want you want, you don't have another option to mod, you don't buy the game and the devs don't make money. IMO, this is step 1 to bringing me back into PC gaming. Responsibilities lie where they should. Dont like it. Don't buy it. LuV it!
Abilidebob
Member
Jesus ChristI understand that. Those old games are not getting updated with new DRM either, so that still remains possible. Developers that use the new DRM encryption software are putting the games future 100% in their control, which is great to me. If devs don't give you want you want, you don't have another option to mod, you don't buy the game and the devs don't make money. IMO, this is step 1 to bringing me back into PC gaming. Responsibilities lie where they should. Dont like it. Don't buy it. LuV it!
Jimmyfenix
Member
I understand that. Those old games are not getting updated with new DRM either, so that still remains possible. Developers that use the new DRM encryption software are putting the games future 100% in their control, which is great to me. If devs don't give you want you want, you don't have another option to mod, you don't buy the game and the devs don't make money. IMO, this is step 1 to bringing me back into PC gaming. Responsibilities lie where they should. Dont like it. Don't buy it. LuV it!
what the heck
EdwardTivrusky
Member
I know, hopefully people like this will stay in their little UWP walled garden away from us barbarians who just want to destroy the developers' wonderful creations.
Definitely.
King Gilga
Member
This shit makes me lose any interest in buying anything off the ms store.
Way to fuck over your legitimate customers Microsoft. Good luck with your pc gaming thing.
Or maybe good luck with your gaming thing in general at this point.
Way to fuck over your legitimate customers Microsoft. Good luck with your pc gaming thing.
Or maybe good luck with your gaming thing in general at this point.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Microsoft, why do you do this.