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[Mesoian]

That kind of practice has been known about for quite a while. Youtube makes a lot more sense as a target for advertising than game websites because of the much larger viewer numbers. But of course none of that is the focus of the "ethical" concerns of gamergate.

The preferential treatment is the news story. Stuff like that is what gamergate SHOULD be about. It's why Twitch changed their COE in order to make sure that streamers who get things early and are being sponsored by a game company have to disclose the information beforehand or during, or risk getting their channel shut down.

The problem isn't that there aren't legitimate gripes, it's that this isn't one of them. I'd have to dig it out, but a number of us checked Twitter to see what the response was when the Mordor news came out. Most of the Mordor #gamergate posts were "I just got mordor" or "kiss not kill". The actual ethical issue was a tiny minority.

Because, "It didn't affect me."

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Early copies for the PC version for Youtubers if they promised to only be positive about the game.

That's not entirely accurate and make it sound much more sinister than it is/was. They just couldn't focus on the negative criticism and they needed to say the game was good at least five times or so in the video. Yeah, it's still lame, but it's not like they had to splooj about how it's the greatest shit ever.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Youtubers were given early access to the game if their video was essentially positive about the game. TB called them out on it and WB got a lot of shit for it.

I didn't know anything about this. Did WB makes any statements about it after?

 

[daycru]

You're comparing organized, targeted harassment with isolated cases of harassment.

There's a world of difference between the two.

There's always a reason why your shit doesn't count.

 

[Ayt]

TB is correct in his role in the Shadow of Mordor thing. The problem is that Arthur is not incorrect in stating that gamergate basically didn't care about it. People on twitter certainly weren't talking about it all that much. Gamergate wasn't emailing anyone en masse because of it. There was no "Operation Orc." They weren't boycotting the game.

It should have been a huge story, but instead it was basically a tiny blip.

 

[JackDT]

GamerGate is organizing campaigns to shut down the sites that have long been fighting for ethical games journalism like RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/30/rpss-position-on-the-eurogamerflorence-debacle/

But RPS writes about feminism once in awhile so... screw them. Let's get back to the important stuff, like Nathan Grayon quoting Zoe Quinn in an article on a Game Jam that nobody disputes the accuracy of! Leigh Alexander said something mean! Let's make sure every review doesn't deviate from the metacritic average http://www.zenofdesign.com/polygons-bayonetta-2-review-is-fine/ We fight for these issues we care about ethical games journalism. Also did you hear Arthur Chu covered up for a rapist? Right on.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

I didn't know anything about this. Did WB makes any statements about it after?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Nekofrog]

one of the most depressing aspects coming out of the gambogoo fiasco (outside of the harassment) is the fact that it's almost impossible to have real discussions about the relationships between the gaming "media" and publishers now.

we used to have them constantly on gaf. relatively well informed discourse that would raise the questions that needed to be raised, and would occasionally include members of the "media" in the discussion.

this kind of stuff is literally impossible to do now.

thanks gabygoo

 

[L Thammy]

Because, "It didn't affect me."

As opposed to kiss not kill, which demonstrates the stranglehold that liberal skeleton feminazis hold over the media.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.

Yeah, there is bullshit on both sides. There's horrible, rancid shit.

But please do not honestly try to say that a few isolated cases validate a campaign of organized sexual harassment.

 

[Orayn]

There's always a reason why your shit doesn't count.

"Your shit" implies that this is taking place between two diametrically opposed groups.

 

[Novan Leon]

Awesome that you have the strength to stay above it all.

While humorous, this is what's known as a false dichotomy.

And yet you have systematic, targeted, and vehement attacks and harassment from men against women on the internet. And why is it allowed to continue? Because other men don't do anything about it. They ignore it. They leave it for the affected party to fight.

Hell, Felicia Day was doxxed for saying GamerGate made her nervous, but Chris Kluwe was left also after attacking GamerGaters in every way a person could think.

I can totally see why someone previously hurt by men would not want us around.

Most men are either completely ignorant of the GamerGate shenanigans or simply don't care that 4chan or the like are running around causing controversy, yet again.

Also, you act as if any amount of outcry could change 4chan's culture in the first place.

 

[Corpekata]

TB is correct in his role in the Shadow of Mordor thing. The problem is that Arthur is not incorrect in stating that gamergate basically didn't care about it. People on twitter certainly weren't talking about it all that much. Gamergate wasn't emailing anyone en masse because of it. There was no "Operation Orc." They weren't boycotting the game.

It should have been a huge story, but instead it was basically a tiny blip.

Yeah. They were more outraged by friend zone jokes and Anthony Burch being mean to them in Borderlands TPS than Mordor.

 

[Mesoian]

Most men are either completely ignorant of the GamerGate shenanigans or simply don't care that 4chan or the like are running around causing controversy, yet again.

Also, you act as if any amount of outcry could change 4chan's culture in the first place.

Oh, there are things that could change 4chan culture overnight. Nothing gamergate related, but...certainly things.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

While humorous, this is what's known as a false dichotomy.



Most men are either completely ignorant of the GamerGate shenanigans or simply don't care that 4chan or the like are running around causing controversy, yet again.

Also, you act as if any amount of outcry could change 4chan's culture in the first place.

who are these "most men"

 

[EricTheCleric]

The ego on this guy.

Found in the Arthur Chu Pakman video comments. Two things:

1) Is TB everywhere now?
2) Where do we start lining up to worship our savior of video games?

So TB

IS the media
IS GamerGate

so why has he still not solved the issue about ethics in video games?

a god could do less, but he has not done anything but whine?

 

[MYeager]

TB is correct in his role in the Shadow of Mordor thing. The problem is that Arthur is not incorrect in stating that gamergate basically didn't care about it. People on twitter certainly weren't talking about it all that much. Gamergate wasn't emailing anyone en masse because of it. There was no "Operation Orc." They weren't boycotting the game.

It should have been a huge story, but instead it was basically a tiny blip.

A guy who was neutral on GamerGate at the time talked about it so it was obviously an important issue for the campaign, despite there not being any comparable level of conversation to that game and an indie game they rant about.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

who are these "most men"

Close friends of #notallmen.

 

[robovanburen]

That kind of practice has been known about for quite a while. Youtube makes a lot more sense as a target for advertising than game websites because of the much larger viewer numbers. But of course none of that is the focus of the "ethical" concerns of gamergate.

Also, YouTubers have a more "personal" connection with their audience. This means their viewers trust them more and thus more likely to buy something on their recommendation. In other words, consumers haven't been as inoculated to YT hype as much as they have, say, IGN's.

The more genuine a format appears, the more valuable it is to advertisers. Thar's why sponsored articles or sponsored videos are so big now - consumers are more likely to view them because they don't look like advertisements.

In other words: YouTube videos are just the latest way to deliver marketing BS. Once people wise up to it, some new format will replace it. Considering how irresponsibly some YTers have acted, I won't be sad when they become irrelevant as well.

 

[bonercop]

There's always a reason why your shit doesn't count.

They just aren't comparable.

 

[frequency]

David Pakman is a terrible interviewer.

And like half way through the interview, he's still talking about Arthur Chu and grilling Arthur about what Arthur's problem with him is.

So far It seems to just be about painting Arthur Chu in a certain light than about #GG.

I don't know if it's worth watching the rest of this?

 

[JackDT]

What the difference between a youtuber talking about games, and a blogger anyway? One is a journalist and one isn't? Many youtubers have larger audiences and probably singlehandedly bring in revenue than entire gaming blogs/sites!

 

[Mesoian]

So TB

IS the media
IS GamerGate

so why has he still not solved the issue about ethics in video games?

a god could do less, but he has not done anything but whine?

TotalBiscuit is not the leader of Gamergate.

But he wishes he was.

 

[Mesoian]

What the difference between a youtuber talking about games, and a blogger anyway? One is a journalist and one isn't? Many youtubers have larger audiences and probably singlehandedly bring in revenue than entire gaming blogs/sites!

Validity-wise, nothing. We are definitely going to reach a tipping point where youtube/twitch style coverage is more important than the traditional big media site.

I think Gametrailers is on life support right now. I give them 8 months.

As opposed to kiss not kill, which demonstrates the stranglehold that liberal skeleton feminazis hold over the media.

"Haha, that's so dumb. When can I stab orcs in the face."

Kiss not kill actually DID affect them directly.

 

[lifa-cobex]

David Pakman is a terrible interviewer.

How come?

 

[Mesoian]

How come?

I haven't seen the interview yet, I won't until I get home but...if you're leading with this:

You're going to have serious problems booking guests in the future.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How come?

Read the rest of the post you quoted

 

[jgminto]

The preferential treatment is the news story. Stuff like that is what gamergate SHOULD be about. It's why Twitch changed their COE in order to make sure that streamers who get things early and are being sponsored by a game company have to disclose the information beforehand or during, or risk getting their channel shut down.

That's what I meant with my previous post, it wasn't clear that I was talking about preferential circumstances. I've always thought the relationship between youtubers and publishers has been a problematic one. But it definitely isn't a point of concern for GG.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

TotalBiscuit is not the leader of Gamergate.

But he wishes he was.

I wonder if the guy that took the username The Leader of GamerGate knows just how fucking stupid that action was.

 

[frequency]

How come?

Please don't stop at the first sentence of my posts. I promise the subsequent sentences usually are relevant to understand the whole of my post.

David Pakman is a terrible interviewer.

And like half way through the interview, he's still talking about Arthur Chu and grilling Arthur about what Arthur's problem with him is.

So far It seems to just be about painting Arthur Chu in a certain light than about #GG.

I don't know if it's worth watching the rest of this?

By the way, now, near the end of the interview, I have to say that it's not worth watching.
The entire thing was just about Arthur. Even when David finally was like "OK, now this question is totally about #GG", his question ended up being "So Arthur, you created this hashtag. Explain yourself to me."

Don't bother wasting 40 minutes unless you're more interested in watching Arthur defend himself than about #GG.

Edit: The Youtube video has changed title to be, "#GamerGate: Arthur Chu Angry with Interviewer, Defends Tactics"

 

[Orayn]

I wonder if the guy that took the username The Leader of GamerGate knows just how fucking stupid that action was.

It's also the default name on 8chan, they use it as an "I AM SPARTACUS" thing because they think their cause is noble.

 

[L Thammy]

It's also the default name on 8chan, they use it as an "I AM SPARTACUS" thing because they think their cause is noble.

For a while it was "Unpaid Gawker Intern", dunno why it changed back. Maybe Gators are too stupid to understand their own attempts at irony?

 

[jgminto]

Also, YouTubers have a more "personal" connection with their audience. This means their viewers trust them more and thus more likely to buy something on their recommendation. In other words, consumers haven't been as inoculated to YT hype as much as they have, say, IGN's.

The more genuine a format appears, the more valuable it is to advertisers. Thar's why sponsored articles or sponsored videos are so big now - consumers are more likely to view them because they don't look like advertisements.

In other words: YouTube videos are just the latest way to deliver marketing BS. Once people wise up to it, some new format will replace it. Considering how irresponsibly some YTers have acted, I won't be sad when they become irrelevant as well.

Exactly. Also when you see the boost in sales some games get when they get coverage from large youtubers like pewdiepie, it makes sense that they'd want to use that to drive sales for their own game.

 

[Nanashrew]

I'm trying to search through some of TB's videos and either the comments on Youtube are not working or all the comments have been deleted. It's all mostly blank with the exception of "TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit shared this" and maybe one other commenter who made top comment. That's it.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

I'm trying to search through some of TB's videos and either the comments on Youtube are not working or all the comments have been deleted. It's all mostly blank with the exception of "TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit shared this" and maybe one other commenter who made top comment. That's it.

Isn't he notorious for blocking comments?

Edit: yeah I just checked them out as well. On the CoD vid there is a comment but the rest there isn't. Wtf?

 

[axisofweevils]

Interesting new article from Polygon.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/4/7157433/brianna-wu-death-threat-reward

"I think someone going to jail is the best way to signal to the entire industry that these kinds of tactics are unacceptable," [Brianna Wu] told Polygon in a phone interview. "My intention here is I want to create an environment where there are consequences for doing this kind of stuff. I have played a lot of games like Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row and you can go out and shoot up police cars and there are no consequences. But I want to remind GamerGate that, hey guys, I understand that you are having fun, but this is the real world and there are going to be real consequences."

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

It's also the default name on 8chan, they use it as an "I AM SPARTACUS"

... yeah, my initial comment still stands....

 

[Moral Panic]

The real Payola schemes have all been from Youtubers. If there is any place where ethics are lacking in VG journalism I'd definitely be looking in that direction.

Remember:

 

[Nanashrew]

Isn't he notorious for blocking comments?

Looking through even older videos now and yeah I think so. I went back 9+ months and no comments to be seen.

 

[Hackworth]

Is this a normal level of crazy for Gamergate or have things stepped up recently?

 

[jgminto]

Isn't he notorious for blocking comments?

If I remember correctly he started blocking the comment section when youtube changed how the comments worked because it allowed posts to hide harmful urls or something like that. I don't know if he's still doing that for the same reason but obviously it can't be "limiting discussion".

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Looking through even old videos now and yeah I think so. I went back 9+ months and no comments to be seen.

Wtf, there is like one reply per vid and they have thousands or hundreds of likes. Wtf is going on?

I'm gonna guess they are approved friends/accounts or something? Seems it's on every vid.

 

[Orayn]

Is this a normal level of crazy for Gamergate or have things stepped up recently?

RogueStar has always been one of their more melodramatic voices and they've been comparing themselves to the civil rights movement for quite a while too. This just happens to be a combination of those two elements, hence the "upgrade" to Malcolm X.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I can't.

Too stupid.

Can't comment.

 

[MYeager]

Is this a normal level of crazy for Gamergate or have things stepped up recently?

For that particular guy? That's a lower level of crazy. He didn't threaten to burn a single thing to the ground.

 

[ApharmdX]

Maybe if they didn't bury those legitimate gripes in mounds of shit they would have been taken seriously

Agreed. When your movement is so hateful and toxic that Breitbart is one of your chief media proponents, you got to purge your ranks of the crazy. The problem is, as someone mentioned a couple of pages back, that there's no real way to reel in GamerGate. Anyone can do anything under the label.


I find myself in the "middle" but there isn't a true center. The most vocal and obvious pro-GGers are so unhinged and unwilling to stick to the issue of corruption that's important to me, I can't be a part of that. I'm not the stereotypical gamer; I'm not white, I'm older, extremely liberal, I have a wife and daughters who love gaming... #NotYourShield is not for me, because I don't think it's acceptable to hide your hatred of minority groups behind a few token individuals. I guess GamerGate was bound to end up like this, as the Zoe Quinn thing touched a nerve with a lot of MRAs and other right-wingers, and they ended up leading the charge. I post on another, very old gaming site that is strongly pro-GG, and this describes most of their community.

On the other hand, the other side has some bad apples too; opportunists who used this controversy as a way to grab more fame for themselves, but who really haven't contributed significantly to gaming. Also, we have to be careful who we are defending. My baseline is "harassment is never acceptable". At the same time, going back to the beginning, I hesitated defending someone who self-identifies as a feminist, but allegedly has a huge disconnect between that identity and her personal choices. Still, while that disconnect may have undermined Quinn's credibility as a mouthpiece, it in no way justifies what happened to her.

There's some fault on both sides, but not equivalence, I guess is what I'm saying. I just wish that the legit issues of the portrayal of women/minorities in gaming, or the corruption in game journalism, were the focal point of GamerGate, and not he said/she said, with dozens of minor Internet celebrities fighting for the spotlight

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Is this a normal level of crazy for Gamergate or have things stepped up recently?

Nah, they've been using Malcolm X and MLK photos for a while

guess the #notyourshield footstools told them it was a good idea

 

[Fantastapotamus]

]dat image

wat

 

[Corpekata]

Heck the fact Roguestar isn't writing in CAPS LOCK means he's feeling pretty zen.

 

[jgminto]

Yeah the use of hilariously out of touch images with famous social figures is a common gamergate practice.