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Ghot of Tsushima surpassed God of War as the most played Sony single-player game on Steam
Mibu no ookami
Member
Much easier to monetize Horizon than Ghost.
Sony could put money into trying to make Ghost 2 Red Dead Redemption 2 but I don't think it would have similar impact. There's a lot you can do with Horizon's world, it's pretty similar to Monster Hunter.
tmlDan
Member
good, they should pay attention to the story
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
Mibu no ookami
Member
Nixxes has less than 80 employees.
Let's assume that each employee makes 100K a year and that is being generous. That's 8 million dollars in payroll.
It probably costs less than 15 million dollars a year to run the business.
So excluding some advertising/marketing budget... no, these ports aren't that expensive.
At least 2 games a year... these ports aren't costing more than 7.5 million dollars a piece.
Let's assume that each employee makes 100K a year and that is being generous. That's 8 million dollars in payroll.
It probably costs less than 15 million dollars a year to run the business.
So excluding some advertising/marketing budget... no, these ports aren't that expensive.
At least 2 games a year... these ports aren't costing more than 7.5 million dollars a piece.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
700k is likely overestimating the to-date number of copies sold, but VG Insights describes an estimation model with reasonably good correlation based upon numbers of reviews here. Currently GoT has 8,750 reviews on Steam. Their recommended range of 20-55 copies sold per review yields an estimated 175,000 to 481,000 copies sold. Even the lower limit of that range results in revenue of $7.35 million taking into account Steam's cut (though some copies are sold for a bit cheaper through key resellers).
The second half of the equation is the cost required for developing a port, and the Insomniac hack provided some handy data for that question.
Generally between 2 and 5 million per port. Obviously we don't know the budget for GoT specifically, but seeing as there's a good chance that the PC port has already paid for itself not even a week after launch, yes, one could say it's "free money" with a high degree of confidence.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
On PS, GOW and Horizon games sell way more than Ghosts.
But on PC, Ghosts sells more than GOW and Horizon?
Why?
But on PC, Ghosts sells more than GOW and Horizon?
Why?
sendit
Member
The important take away here is that most people could care less what could be done in the Horizon world.
I’d like to think it’s because of the online component of GoT that this game has longer legs.
Sony should bring fun MP in their SP games moving forward.
Mibu no ookami
Member
It's so interesting that gamers on forums can't remove themselves from an equation.
Both horizon games have sold 10+ million each... it's one of the most popular game franchises in the world, but sure most people could care less... I guess by that estimation most people could care less about any franchise.
Fake
Member
My comment still stands. GoT don't have any competition, not to mention is a great Playstation game with high support from players, while Demons Souls will try to compete with Elden Ring, even so with his DLC.
We know most of the Dark Souls players already migrate to Elden Ring and Elden Ring will receive his DLC. I not denying the PC port will come, just pointing the PC beg between the argument about Elden Ring playerbase.
Anw, at this point Sony would be crazy to not make GoT sequel, unless that stupid ceo want to push his favorite Horizon franchise to the limits.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It's not single player.
DanielG165
Member
The people who actually hate this are, respectfully, delusional. If they’re really upset that more people have access to a video game, can enjoy that game, and don’t have to be tied down to a plastic box in order to play it… They should do some serious inward looking at themselves.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Even more delusional is that every other thing they have in life that is a multi-purpose branded box where every brand can play any media out there (dvd/br players, PC, music player etc....).
I've never seen or heard someone owning a Sony branded DVD/BR player or MP3 player complain other people branded box can play Sony owned TV shows or movies or music labels.
But when it comes to gaming, it's ecosystem walled garden galore.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
That mentality is dying for sure.
It'll survive to a degree once Sony releases their handheld and competes with Nintendo, but in the grand scheme of things, it's already over.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Most people don’t hate it. A couple of raging fanboys aren’t most people.
Denton
Member
Plus according to interview with DF, guys from Jetpack who ported God of War said majority of work on that port was done by four people..
Killjoy-NL
Member
You would need a PSN account for Bloodborne though. Lol
MrRenegade
Report me if I continue to troll
PC peasants playing a controller game with keyb+mouse. Ridiculous.
Senua
Gold Member
Zathalus
Member
I'd wager most PC players are probably using a controller.
yurinka
Member
Yes, it's a single player game. With a secondary and minor MP mode as free DLC.
This is nonsensical, he would never do this. He has them working on GoT2 and is also working on a GoT movie adaptation.
I think Bloodborne could performe better than GoT on PC, unlike it was in PS, because we're in a post Elden Ring world. And now people not only claims to be a Souls games fan, but now actually also buy them.
But being SP, I think its numbers will continue being far from Helldivers 2. I think only Concord, Marathon and a potential Destiny 3 may will rival Helldivers 2 numbers.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The Raid mode alone makes this statement wrong.
It has multiplayer so this threads article is misleading period.
Darkness_Arises
Member
No kidding, even that tallneck Lego set is much beloved and gets lots of love from the Lego community. I saw some absolute weird shit takes in the Horizon x lego game leak thread. I wonder why most gamers on gaf have a hate boner for Horizon.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
Because it's a technical marvel that wipes the floor with the vast majority of open-world games.
DrFigs
Member
I mean they're free to do that right now on ps5. i don't think bloodborne has been in the vicinity of the top 20 npd since elden ring came out though. if they were to remake it, i think it might do as well as the demon's souls remake.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
From what I saw, most like the first game but don’t care for the second.
Darkness_Arises
Member
The first game probably has the better story (I couldn't get through it). The second game is much better to play on top of looking even better IMO (I played it to completion on the base PS4). Auto run, gyro aim and exploding chucking spears make for a fun time. The Las Vegas underwater section and the subsequent boss fight is bloody glorious. But to each their own, I can see the merits of the first game and I also get the AssCreed comparisons. The irrational Aloy hatred is definitely weird though.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
The narrative fits whatever people want to run with. Estimates are that this sold something close to 700k. That would be considered a failure on other platforms, but is a smashing success on PC apparently. I'm pretty sure they could sell more day 1 if they want. Up to Sony. They're the ones with rising budgets and slim profit margins that need to report growth to investors.
Mibu no ookami
Member
There's a lot of reasons, but they don't really matter.
Sony will keep pumping money into the franchise if it keeps generating revenue for them. If the tv show is successful, though I have my doubts, they'll be significantly rewarded for it.
They're trying to get a larger female audience.
Personally, I'm glad Sony is still focusing on original IP where they can. I think they're still a long ways away from say Nintendo who has an all-star cast of characters: Mario, Luigi, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Seamus, Pikachu, Link, but they are absolutely getting there.
With a third game and an explosion of interest Aloy/Horizon could certainly surpass Kirby and Donkey Kong on the best selling lists and from there you just never know. You look at Zelda games before Breath of the Wild... The high water mark was really Ocarina of Time, which sold fewer copies than Horizon Zero Dawn.
The next 5 years or so will be really interesting for Sony as a publisher now that they're embracing PC and transmedia and I think that is why they kind of split SIE in two. An org tree that is aligned against hardware and services and an org tree that is aligned around IP.
SIE (IP) is in a unique position to try to be the top publisher in gaming. That's something Sony never was despite their success with PS3 and PS4. If they can get their franchises to a place where they sell as well as Nintendo franchises and have that mindshare, the platform will take care of itself.
Just look at what they're doing on PC right now with Helldivers 2, Ghost of Tsushima, and Destiny 2 all being in the top 10-15 on Steam. There are barely any publishers with 2 successful games that high up let alone 3. Sony simply has a larger pipeline than most companies and higher quality than most publishers, with the exception of a few major blockbuster games like GTA, Red Dead, Witcher, Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate 3, but none of these companies who make games like that can pump out as many games as Sony can.
Add in Paramount, add in Mission Impossible, Star Trek, TMNT, Avatar the last airbender, Spongebob Squarepants/Nickelodeon characters, and that significantly helps Sony with IP closer to Nintendo.
Topher
Gold Member
Mibu no ookami
Member
I think you're just not familiar with the market.
First off, the game is going to have legs, not in the sense that it will remain the top selling game or even in the top of the charts for a long time, but rather when the price is discounted, it'll prop back up again. When the movie releases, it'll prop back up again.
PC games don't have the same type of life cycle as console games and depending on the genre they have a pretty limited ceiling in most cases. If you look up the best selling Steam games of all time console oriented games don't really do that well. Ghost doesn't really have enough RPG elements to keep PC gamers interested and I doubt Legends will keep them interested but then again it was an afterthought.
You look at Sony's PC Strategy and the best selling games and it is pretty clear what actually becomes megahits on PC.
It's why they're making Fairgames, because Payday 2 was so successful. But it's also confusing why they haven't ported Demon's Souls after Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, and Sekiroh's success on PC.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I never said the game isn't going to have legs. Just pointing out the obvious that day 1 would likely be higher sales, plus an additional 4 years of legs. I don't think it's something we need to debate. 700k isn't a huge upfront number for an install base that big. It would likely be bigger if it launched on day 1.
I personally don't care if they do day 1 or wait a few years. As I said, it's up to Sony to decide what they want to do. I think if they see a lot of growth potential on their console, they'll stick to that day 1. If they see some signs that it's slowing down, they're likely to keep moving the release dates up on PC.
Mibu no ookami
Member
They have a duality of purpose now as a software publisher, but the advantage of Day 1 probably isn't worth it for the platform that still brings in billions of dollars.
They have a pretty good strategy on Day 1 for GaaS and a year or two later for AAA single player games.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Personally, I agree with you. I just have no clue what current Sony management thinks and I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I platinum'd the first game. I couldn't get halfway through the second. The exact same thing happened with GOW 2018 and Ragnarok. I hold the 2018 in very high regard but cannot stomach the sequel.
I find both Ragnarok and Forbidden West to be laughably weak sequels to a great and good game.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I think there is this belief that the overlords of Sony are simply incompetent and don't recognize that they have a platform to sell. I think this line of thinking comes from people having a belief that their darkest thoughts and concerns come to fruition. It's an extension of confirmation bias.
Herman Hulst himself has said that AAA SP won't be day and date. So they've done a calculation and that's what they came up with. That isn't to suggest that calculation will never and could never change, but it just isn't likely to.
Nintendo could have released a 3G Nintendo Switch and released Pokemon Go on the switch. They never did. Could it have worked? Maybe. Would it have been redundant and pointless? Definitely.
Day 1 PC for Single player games isn't as appetizing as people suggest it is. People act like Sony can't see how well other games sell and this is the first time they're seeing PC sales.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
It's not about if they have a platform to sell. It's about if that platform has potential to foster growth in hardware and software sales. If it does, no question they're all in and PC is an afterthought years later or never. The less that is certain though, the more they have to look elsewhere. #1 priority above even their own platform is growth.
And the million dollar prediction is whether or not consoles are going to last the next 10-15 years like we know them, regardless of what Sony does. If the answer is yes, great. They're in a dominant position. If the answer actually is no though, setting up a full store on PC / mobile / cloud that is device agnostic a decade late is a potentially catastrophic mistake. I'm glad I don't have to make those bets. I think they'll probably keep dipping their toe into both and trying to guess which way the wind is blowing. If they make the wrong bet, they could wind up like current day SQEX with a lost decade of not building customer goodwill on other platforms, or it could go the other way and they solidify a stable future of predictable console and software sales.
My personal opinion is that it's not really up to Sony management which way the console trends are moving. Their real job is to guess correctly and get positioned favorably in the right areas. They aren't steering the ship, they're riding the wave.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
That's not the only consideration.
It makes sense for GaaS developers to develop for PC at the same time because you're looking for playerbase.
It makes more sense for Sony's AAA developers to focus on PlayStation and then let another studio worry about the PC release like Nixxes. Nixxes can seemingly do 2-3 projects per year depending on size and scope. That's pretty sufficient for AAA releases.
If anything that might slow down even more as it seems they're likely working on the Horizon remaster and Spider-Man 2. I just hope that they're working on TLOU P2 as well. Maybe get that out before the end of the year, Horizon remaster comes out for 2025 with the TV show, and Spider-Man 2 comes out for PC in 2026.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It will drop to #3 when Concord releases.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
I wish Nixxes would at least try to add more to the PC editions of these ports, nothing really changes with these port except the usually (improved FPS and Res) but I think sony probably doesn't want there to be a divide compared to the PS5 editions of the games.
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Magic Carpet
Member
Ghost of Tsushima has Trophies. Nixxes did that.
Guilty_AI
Member
Darkness_Arises
Member
The accessibility features of the second game (no need to press L3 to run and gyro aim) have unfortunately rendered the original game unplayable to me (on the PS4). I can still play HZD on the steam deck by hacking in gyro support using steam config and mapping L3 to one of the back buttons but it is just not the same as using LS to control the speed of movement as in H:FW. I have not been able to play Ragnarok for more than 2 hours, while I easily completed GoW on release.
On topic, GoT is not my cup of tea but it is a technically well made game. It had insanely fast quick travel even on the base PS4 model and looks absolutely jaw dropping (clever use of effects and artistry), inspite of sporting some of the worst low res textures I have ever seen in a FP Sony Ps4 era game.