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GT7 Developer Polyphony Goes on Hiring Spree
- Thread starter Cyborg
- Start date
If they can't get GT7 running at a stable 60fps I think there will be bigger issues than it not working in VR.
Not entirely sure what the comparison with ND is about either - they made a clear design decision that wind-blown chest hair and dynamic rice sack emptying are better for UC4 (and we have yet to see how the MP will run).
It' a design choice for SP campaign, dude. Yes, you saw GT7, but you don't know yet.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
I think it's very borderline TLG makes it out next year. GT7... not gonna happen. Horizon and Dreams, depends on how far along they are.
I'd argue that Kaz is anything but a perfectionist. If he was there would be no way he'd release two consecutive games with so much screen tearing and so many framerate drops.
Where Kaz is involved people seem to confuse perfectionism with unrealised ambition.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
When l read this l was disappointed as it looks like the game is still early days but at the same time relieved as l guess they finally realised areas they are weak on and doing something about it. They need do improve given the competition.
But what have they been doing for so many years as they can't all be on GT6 still. I'm hoping they are polishing up a GT7 prologue release for 2016.
But what have they been doing for so many years as they can't all be on GT6 still. I'm hoping they are polishing up a GT7 prologue release for 2016.
nismopower
Member
But i dontncare about screen tearing and frame drops that much. In gt5 i hardly noticed it, and the amount of fun i had with that game is amazing.
But that game pushed the boundries of what was done on consoles. And i loved it, sure frames were dropped and screens were teared, bur the fun and amount of time i played that game i never gave a single fuck about that.
You're not the first one saying that, and I don't really get it.
As someone else has already said, it's not like these positions affect core parts of the game (in the sense that the lack of the features they're looking after probably wouldn't prevent the game from launching anyway).
I'm confident the game will release next year, and I expect some reveal later this year, probably at PGW.
sechsterangriff
Member
My thoughts exactly...
Hence he gave you the option to run both games at 720p. Have you played either?
Playing at 720p didn't prevent framerate drops.
Amen to that..
I still own both and am even keeping my PS3 on life support purely to play them, but 720p doesn't eliminate frame drops and I don't think it entirely eliminates screen tearing either. It does introduce fugly-ass dot matrix display levels of dithering though.
travisbickle
Member
Guess the 150 Polyphony employees are sitting on their hands waiting for these dozen new recruits before they can begin.
matrix-cat
Member
With GT5 they made the baffling decision to render the game at 1280x1080, which the PS3 obviously couldn't handle, leading to them having to patch rolling starts into practically all the races to try and keep the 60FPS target. Come GT6, they made the even more baffling decision to push the resolution even higher. Did the PS3 get any more powerful between GT5 and 6? I'm pretty sure it didn't, but for some reason PD thought they could get away with it.
Turns out, nope. Not even rolling starts for everything could save GT6's framerate. Hell, it's not even a perfect 60 in 720p, and the game looks awful at 720. At this point, if I read that GT7 was going to be rendered at 4K and 30FPS I honestly don't think I'd be surprised.
Turns out, nope. Not even rolling starts for everything could save GT6's framerate. Hell, it's not even a perfect 60 in 720p, and the game looks awful at 720. At this point, if I read that GT7 was going to be rendered at 4K and 30FPS I honestly don't think I'd be surprised.
SolidSnakex
Member
The 1080p push came from Sony as they view PD as a company that can show off what Playstation hardware can do. If you remember Sony was pushing 1080p on the PS3 hard last gen. Yoshida has even talked about this. Luckily it seems they've backed off of pushing things like 1080p and 3D this gen. And they haven't rolled PD to do tech demos like they've done in the past.
wowbaggerBR
Member
How come a PS3 setting is something he did gave to you?
It's very hard not to laugh at this perfeccionism argument after standards, vision GT with black interiors, PS2 era tracks and whatnot.
flipswitch
Member
Yup. Why would they increase the resolution in GT6, it just doesn't make sense.
All I'm asking for is a stable frame rate of 60fps like in the PS2 days.
All I'm asking for is a stable frame rate of 60fps like in the PS2 days.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Hmmm didn't kno people hated gt7 so much? Judging by the way thread is going anyway. Nor did i think people thought forza was ahead of the game? Gt seems to sell well and get praises every else i visit,is this a minority thing or jus gaf being gaf
Just pick two convenient metrics and you can easily argue nobody is a perfectionist.
Ha ha..! Not everybody wears that badge in the first place. My response was to the folklore trope that Kaz is a perfectionist, an assumption which possibly originated from nothing more than "delays = polishing, ergo huge delays = polishing to perfection". Those "two convenient metrics" as you call them could also be labelled "two essential elements" of a driving sim, along with realistic audio, consistent quality of assets, authentic damage modelling, believable AI.... aw, you get the idea.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
I wouldn't call frame rate and tearing convenient metrics, I'd consider them essential for a driving game. Honestly the tearing in GT5 was awful I didn't mind the frame rate issues so much.
Apex
Member
Name another name in the game industry that fits better here than Kaz. He's clearly a perfectionist even if GT5/6 could not be a perfect game, the PS3 was not the perfect system to run a perfect game and the fact that he is working with limitations and need to balance his vision with what can be achievable.Here are ten tell-tale signs on whether youre a perfectionist or not: said:
He's never happy with the results and that's a big tell.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gran...y-About-60-fps-Frame-Rate-Issues-161939.shtmlKaz said:
AZ Greg
Member
I hope you aren't one of those people who get on other people when they say they don't care about 900p.
Lol
It's not that people hate GT, we just want to see them return to the standards of the past. Back when Forza 1 launched, and Kaz was claiming a racer wasn't truly a sim unless it was a locked 60FPS, I actually believed that was how he felt and that he wouldn't be caught dead releasing anything that didn't meet that standard. Turns out it was just marketing.
Ambition is not to be applauded if you set unrealistic goals as the end result will only disappoint. The problem is, Kaz didn't balance his vision or limit his ambition to fit the limitations of the hardware, so GT5 and GT6 were always doomed to have sub-par performance. That's not perfectionism. It's gross miscalculation.
I'm sorry...that list does not make kaz a perfectionist. Based on that...Peter molyneux is a far bigger perfectionist than kaz.
He's ambitious...and it's both a detriment and blessing for the gamer and himself. He's always going to be working with restrictions. Even on ps4, he'll have restrictions. Don't blame the ps3 because kept wanting to do more than it was really capable.
Neuromancer
Member
Do people really think Polyphony has literally been sitting around doing nothing in the 2 years since GT6 came out?
Only on GAF lol
SolidSnakex
Member
I'd say you can blame it when it can't even do things that the PS2 could do. It also didn't help that the PS3's main weakness (particles) also seemed to be one of the main areas that PD wanted to push last gen.
Even products by perfectionists will have flaws. It's a personality trait. E.g. people can cite multiple flaws about Steve Job's products.
Seems like we're just playing with semantics. If he aimed to include more features or simply iterate on a handling model, in his view he is trying to make the product more perfect.
We saw devs still do amazing things with the hardware. Kaz doesn't get a pass because, still, he tried to do things it couldn't do. Hardware is going to have limitations...they always do...work inside that box.
SolidSnakex
Member
And Polyphony were one of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQO6JHZl-Cs
It doesn't change the fact that the PS3 was undeniably not a good piece of hardware overall. There's a reason why Sony basically pushed the PS4 as more or less being the exact opposite of what the PS3 was.
Still staggering to this day.
The PS3 was an absolutely great ISA from graphics processing. The problem was it was very esoteric compared to what came before. Targeting that architecture introduced a vast, and I seriously mean vast, array of implementation issues. Because it basical required production pipelines to be fully retailored. The Cell Architecture could possibly be industry standard, the only reason it's not is it lacks the massive industry support behind it like x86 does.
No...you're blaming the ps3 for not allowing kaz to do everything he wanted. I never said polyphony weren't one of those...but he was one of the few who tried to do more.
I'm sorry I won't accept the ps3 being the reason for gts problems when I saw many other devs fit their vision into the system without the shortcomings gt had.
I have no doubt the ps4 won't be able to contain his vision either.
SolidSnakex
Member
None of the hardware has been able to fit his vision, so there's no reason to expect the PS4 to be any different. But the PS4 is balanced (as he's pointed out already) unlike the PS3. So just because hardware may not meet his vision it doesn't mean that the performance is going to be bad. The PS3 was unique in how weird it was as a piece of hardware. It was really good in some areas and downright terrible in others. That's not something they have to worry about with the PS4.
I really do hope so. I'd love to see it come together in a more compete package. The visuals will be there of course.
TylerDurden4321
Member
The way I imagine Kaz to work is pretty perfectionist:
He has this grand vision of what the next GT could be, then someone up on the command chain visits and says
"Wait, you want WHAT to do WHAT?? Scratch that.. oh, and this is year release date, btw we want 3D in there as well".
Then Kaz is down and goes over his lists with "great new features we came up with for the next GT" and "things we need to improve from the last game" then he strikes out a few on each list, instead of making entirely new list that fit his project time and money resources better.
That's how we end up with off-road rally racing, day/night cycle, great tyre feel(for a last gen game) as well as crappy vacuum cleaner sound, insanely outdated menu design and ugly cockpits even on the premium cars... then there's his inability to let old achievements like the car and track count go to build newer and "awesome" stuff.
He has this grand vision of what the next GT could be, then someone up on the command chain visits and says
"Wait, you want WHAT to do WHAT?? Scratch that.. oh, and this is year release date, btw we want 3D in there as well".
Then Kaz is down and goes over his lists with "great new features we came up with for the next GT" and "things we need to improve from the last game" then he strikes out a few on each list, instead of making entirely new list that fit his project time and money resources better.
That's how we end up with off-road rally racing, day/night cycle, great tyre feel(for a last gen game) as well as crappy vacuum cleaner sound, insanely outdated menu design and ugly cockpits even on the premium cars... then there's his inability to let old achievements like the car and track count go to build newer and "awesome" stuff.
Ah, okay. Kaz is a perfectionist then. He's just an absolutely bloody terrible one.
wowbaggerBR
Member
I'm yet to understand this blindness, this inertia, regarding all things Kaz. It's like the man can't be blame or criticise. It's the perfect job: everything great about your product is because of you. Everything wrong with it is because you are a perfeccionist! Or it's Sony's fault.
-The game has poor performance?
Oh, the PS3 was a nightmare!
-The game fails to deliver features marketed as key sell points?
Oh, he is a perfeccionist! Never mind that almost two years later, nobody have seen the course maker working.
-The racing genre is evolving, with newer gameplay structure in career modes. Gran Turismo still displays the same Clubman challenges that you saw on GT1.
Oh, but he has this vision! He'll get there, eventually.
-Gran Turismo is on the verge of being surpassed by Forza, which started 10 years after.
Oh, he is a perfeccionist trying to bring his vision to life!
-There are tons of feature request by long term fans since GT4. None of them were implemented (but hey, we've got a lunar rover).
Everything is Sony's fault.
I mean, I get the guy is charismatic and looks like a very cool person, but saying that things wrong with Gran Turismo is due to his perfeccionism is ridiculous.
-The game has poor performance?
Oh, the PS3 was a nightmare!
-The game fails to deliver features marketed as key sell points?
Oh, he is a perfeccionist! Never mind that almost two years later, nobody have seen the course maker working.
-The racing genre is evolving, with newer gameplay structure in career modes. Gran Turismo still displays the same Clubman challenges that you saw on GT1.
Oh, but he has this vision! He'll get there, eventually.
-Gran Turismo is on the verge of being surpassed by Forza, which started 10 years after.
Oh, he is a perfeccionist trying to bring his vision to life!
-There are tons of feature request by long term fans since GT4. None of them were implemented (but hey, we've got a lunar rover).
Everything is Sony's fault.
I mean, I get the guy is charismatic and looks like a very cool person, but saying that things wrong with Gran Turismo is due to his perfeccionism is ridiculous.
VirtuaFighter64
Banned
perfectionism doesn't come to mind with constant frame drops, tearing, engines that sound like vacuum cleaners and PS1 era A.I. The PS3 GT's we're an embarrassment imo...hope they rebound.
Jesus yes. We know PD jumped the shark with GT6 (lunar rover, anybody..?). Let's hope they at least hit the landing ramp.
SolidSnakex
Member
They already have well over 200 premium cars. Unless you're talking about 200 more than GT6 had.
this is the same dev studio who managed to get GT5 working in stereoscopic 3D. if anyone is going to get VR working well in a racer it's them.
Well, that's if you believe they modeled the PS3 premium cars at a high enough resolution to be suitable for the PS4.
Maybe...