Banjo-Kazooie
Member
While there is little excuse for the poor launch, I've got to trust that 343 has been putting in some serious overtime to make it right, which should be appreciated.
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Halo MCC patch out tomorrow.
- Thread starter Bornstellar
- Start date
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Frankie said the big issue didn't expose itself until out in the wild. If that's the case, you can argue a proper Beta would have possibly prevented or caught this issue, but a 2 week delay would have simply just delayed the inevitable issue that was lying dormant. Then you would have had a 4 week delay for all essential purposes.
Diablohead
Member
Tons of other bugs they could have crushed though like halo 4 not loading, halo 2 saves, halo CE skipping a level, stuff they really should have fixed.
Afternoon is what's been said and I presume whatever time zone they work in.
Solidsoul
Banned
While i am very happy all of these issues will be fixed in the patch I will say what others have already said.
What about the Halo 4 campaign crashing, or the fact that the AI companions in Halo CE and 2 don't act normal nor follow you places?
I have no problem waiting and being patient, but it'd be great to hear these fixes are also coming eventually.
What about the Halo 4 campaign crashing, or the fact that the AI companions in Halo CE and 2 don't act normal nor follow you places?
I have no problem waiting and being patient, but it'd be great to hear these fixes are also coming eventually.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'm so sorry.
Do you need a hug after such a traumatic experience? I'm here for you, drop me a line whenever.
No. It shouldn't be appreciated, it should be expected. 343i isn't doing anyone any favors by making their game run the way it should have from the beginning.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Okay, whatever. Actual "worker bee" people are doing actual hard work to try and make this right for decisions (to push back the game or not, have a beta, ect) that was never their decision to make, as that is on upper management.
I can appreciate that.
The Jackdog
Member
Do we have an answer about...
1. If playlists are going to come back with this patch
2. If ranks are coming to other playlists with it
3. if ranks are going to be reset again?
Otherwise....man i hope i can play some halo finally. see you guys out there
1. If playlists are going to come back with this patch
2. If ranks are coming to other playlists with it
3. if ranks are going to be reset again?
Otherwise....man i hope i can play some halo finally. see you guys out there
Indeed. As bad as this launch has been, the way members of 343 have reached out and talked about it has given me the utmost sympathy for their position. Their communication has been the reason why I kept it on my digital shelf instead of demanding a refund. The times I did manage to get into a match were so wonderful that I'm willing to give them time to sort this out.
RowdyReverb
Member
I think people are appreciative of the haste and hard work that 343 put into releasing the patch, not just that they are patching the game.
It's also just good manners to say "thank you" when something is given to you, even if it is expected. I say thank you when I receive a paycheck, even though I earned it.
duessano
Member
It's like people think Stinkles is going to give them Defender of the Covenant merit badges for defending Halo. I would appreciate if they refunded $20 of the price to the users.
You can still get a complete refund for the game.
Dylan Sexbang
Banned
Started up the Halo 4 campaign. By god Chief says more in the first level than the entire Halo CE campaign. And it look so fucking good in comparison to even H2A. Everything about it looks brilliant. Especially Cortana.
Say what you will about the MP, but 343 did manage to deliver the best campaign of the Halo saga. I can't wait to go back through it yet again.
If Cortana makes a return, I really hope she uses her Halo 4 design.
Say what you will about the MP, but 343 did manage to deliver the best campaign of the Halo saga. I can't wait to go back through it yet again.
ebullientprism
Member
Free maps would do the trick. Remake 2-3 more H2 maps and we are all square 343.
Otherwise, its just words.
Otherwise, its just words.
DJ Lushious
Member
I don't think it's a good move to assume everyone can simply ask for a refund. Brick and mortar stores' return policies for software is very strict, normally only allowing for exchanging of the same title, if the package has been opened.
*Looks up the word "grateful" in the dictionary*
Are you kidding me, Vlaud?! Of all the words in the English language to use to describe 343's post-mortem actions, you think "grateful" is the emotion we should be feeling? I should be grateful I've spent $60 on one of the most broken games on launch ever (I think it ranks among BF)? I should be grateful that 343, who has forever said that they would treat the Halo brand with the utmost respect it deserves, just took a literal shit on the franchise?
I like Frank and always have since his Weekly Update days in Halo 2. I enjoy sitting in on his panels at PAX and listening to him talk in ViDocs. And I know he and the rest of the team are busting their proverbial asses trying to get as much of the game fixed as quickly as they can, without creating another shitstorm in the process.
But grateful?! Hell no. I was sold a broken product that I cannot return that I now have to wait to get fixed. That's nothing to be grateful for.
So in other words they needed to sell the game and have us play test it first before any bugs were discovered? Some of the issues are downright amateurish, there is no way this game was play tested comprehensively before launch. I mean you find a terminal in the game and the Xbox Live menu pops up asking you to download the Halo Channel to watch it? Sometimes the AI in Halo 3 just downright stops behaving. Yesterday a room full of buggers just hugged the wall in front of me and just waited to get gunned down on Heroic! This is absolutely inexcusable. Stinkles and 343i will get none of my thanks as they work to rectify issues that shouldn't have been in the final product to begin with especially when they are making interest from the money (not to mention pre-orders for the last six months) we gave them for what essentially amounts to a beta. Personally, I don't think the campaign issues will be ironed out. I really don't think they care, and Stinkles is just some glorified PR guy.
RowdyReverb
Member
Guys, it's ok to be grateful for something even if you deserve it. These people put in a ton of hours of work to deliver a patch this quickly. Yes, it should have worked from the start, but that doesn't mean that 343 shouldn't be commended for fixing things quickly and communicating with he community in the meantime. They have handled the botched release very well, and I'm grateful for that. I'm not going to just fold my arms and say "finally, but it's too late"
Narpas Sword0
Member
I didn't cover this before, but yes. Even if the game works 100% as it should after another couple weeks of patches, the current and future online population is likely to be way lower than it could have been, another erosion of the value of the product. They can't patch that back in.
On another note, I can't figure out why everyone is talking about worker bees at 343. Literally no one has ever blamed them for anything. Everyone is mad at the honchos that shoved the game out the door when it wasn't done and advertised it as something it wasn't.
I'm pretty sure when FF14 launched and sucked Square waived the monthly fee on it for a good year until the fixed version released. But hey let's be "grateful" that half the problems maybe sorta might be fixed today.
Narpas Sword0
Member
I would do so simply for the sake of being polite, and not endeavoring to sound completely spoiled/entitled. Through all this mess they've been pretty damn transparent and apologetic, which is certainly the exception to the rule. And hell, even if something is expected or deserved, it's not a stretch to say 'thanks.' That's not a measure of what you feel you deserve; its a measure of maturity.
Also yes, you can ask for a refund. I believe That has been stated several times now.
I am a consumer. I take $60 of my wealth and I transfer it to Microsoft in exchange for a product. It is quid pro quo. If their product is not what it was stated to be, I am not spoiled if I expect it to be fixed. I am literally entitled to have it be fixed, entitlement is not a pejorative in this instance. It is their moral and legal duty to provide me with the product that was promised.
I don't see much transparency here either. In the MCC thread stinkles was MIA for long chunks of time while he was posting about random stuff in OT. And if you believe that NONE of these problems were known until millions of copies were out the door then I'd say you are pretty gullible. Server issues, sure. But crashing in single player and losing saves? There is no way they didn't know about that stuff in advance. Many of the problems are not server related.
If they knew the problems existed and released anyway id agree.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
In all fairness halo 4 has a great campaign. Although it's a little linear and the battles aren't as big or open to different approaches.
CE is still my favourite. Despite the bugs I had a blast playing through on Legendary this week. Getting through Halo 2 now and still loving it
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, it is. And they are doing that.
But that does not mean you can't appreciate the extra work and hours the programmers on the floor have been doing now to get everything fixed.
They knew the single player bugs existed before release.
I would do so simply for the sake of being polite, and not endeavoring to sound completely spoiled/entitled. Through all this mess they've been pretty damn transparent and apologetic, which is certainly the exception to the rule. And hell, even if something is expected or deserved, it's not a stretch to say 'thanks.' That's not a measure of what you feel you deserve; its a measure of maturity.
Also yes, you can ask for a refund. I believe That has been stated several times now.
I think most of the anger comes from the number of broken games that were released this year.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
The Halo 4 campaign is absolutely beautiful, and I was on board with the first few levels because they had the "strange world" Halo feel to them, but that kind of falls apart as you go. The story gets pretty bad, mainly due to them throwing in the Didact and just expecting people to know the entirety of the Greg Bear novels to know who he is, not to mention the Librarian and having any idea who she is at all. Also the QTEs and button pressing got super repetitive.
I love how it looks though, especially inside Forerunner structures. I just wish the gameplay and theme of the first few levels stuck for the whole game, and the story wasn't super convoluted to those who never read external fiction (or managed to find the hidden story in the terminals, another bad move).
I fully anticipate 343 has taken that feedback to heart for 5 though, as it appears bringing Arby back and adding Locke makes the story relate more to the first 3 games, and the Spartan universe as opposed to the outside Forerunner fiction.
I love how it looks though, especially inside Forerunner structures. I just wish the gameplay and theme of the first few levels stuck for the whole game, and the story wasn't super convoluted to those who never read external fiction (or managed to find the hidden story in the terminals, another bad move).
I fully anticipate 343 has taken that feedback to heart for 5 though, as it appears bringing Arby back and adding Locke makes the story relate more to the first 3 games, and the Spartan universe as opposed to the outside Forerunner fiction.
DarthWalden
Banned
I hope this works... When you eventually find a game it really is amazing however not worth the trouble right now.
FunkyPajamas
Member
I forgot to ask until now: is the Halo 2 bug (where crouching as the Arbiter in the Tartarus boss fight in the lower level of the platform would insta-kill you) also in this collection? I remember being amused when I encountered that bug in the original game, heh.
Narpas Sword0
Member
I appreciate the doctors that brought them into this world, I appreciate Putin for not imprisoning the programmers who worked on this, I appreciate for the roads being paved so that 343 guys can get to work, I appreciate America's farmers for providing grain for the bread in 343's sandwiches at lunch time, I appreciate that 343 guys are going to their job to do their job that they are paid for.
But none of that has anything to do with my $60 relationship with the corporation they are employed by. None of that has anything to do with this and no one should be patting them on the back and cheering them on for fixing half their problems after 8 days.
Assuming the patch notes are accurate and all of that stuff is perfect after tonight, which I may doubt. Let's save the parade for tomorrow shall we?
You're still venting? What exactly do you want any of us to say to you? You bring up completely unrelated things and then get upset because others don't exactly share your viewpoint. They are fixing the problems, they are giving priority to the bigger ones to fix.
As for the Stinkles comment. It's not his job to post answers to questions here or put out fires. Who gives a shit if he was posting in OT. He's been on GAF for almost ten years. He's allowed to post when and where he wants. Want an official response? Contact Microsoft Support, Xbox Live Support, or 343 community managers on Halo Waypoint. Frank posts here because of the very same reason we come and post here. We all have a shared love/hobby for gaming, and in this case, Halo. He'd probably leave GAF altogether with how many expect him to be on beck and call answering questions all the time.
Um, yes you can.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Didn't say it was his job. I was specifically responding to someone who was saying that 343 had been exceptionally transparent and involved in the community. Just like the core of all my other posts has been in reference to the 343 fellators in this thread and not the worker bees at 343. But people here have a hard time understanding that.
I'm talking to the people here, in this thread. The people fellating 343 PR for making a tweet once every 2 days or one post in this topic. The people who are fellating 343 for providing a product on the 20th that they sold on the 11th. Well, half of it. Maybe. I'm not talking to Stinkles or any other 343 employee.
Blind fandom like that is what encourages companies (read: executives) to keep shitting out garbage and making a profit on it. Consumers shouldn't give them a pass on this.
Anyone who wants Halo 5 to launch to the standards of Halo 1, 2, 3, and 4 should be clearly and loudly demanding better than TMMC. Cutting any slack on these forums breeds complacency among the people who assign budgets and headcount to these projects and who set release dates. It takes a loud and clear negative response from consumers to move the needle for the people in those board rooms.
I am guessing he bought the disc.. opened it... and of course stuck with it unless he wants to trade it in for less value.
Looks like a good first step, assuming it all works as expected. Lots of work to go though, especially the various performance issues.
I didn't see it mentioned, but hopefully the "roster stability" fix means being able to join friends and such more consistently without everyone having to quit the game and restart it due to it thinking you're still together in the party. Also hope the post-game freezing at the loading screen is patched.
I look forward to seeing a detailed postmortem as more of the issues are resolved.
I didn't see it mentioned, but hopefully the "roster stability" fix means being able to join friends and such more consistently without everyone having to quit the game and restart it due to it thinking you're still together in the party. Also hope the post-game freezing at the loading screen is patched.
I look forward to seeing a detailed postmortem as more of the issues are resolved.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't know of any stores that won't take a defective product as a return. You may have to go one level beyond the average person at the counter, but they should do it.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
A solid percentage of Halogaf posters are only there to post with Frank and Ellis. You shouldn't be surprised at the "343 fellating".
Both good people however, I'm not saying otherwise.
Both good people however, I'm not saying otherwise.
That's not true, there's multiple ways to address the "standby" exploit. In fact, the 1.5 patch for the original Halo 2 did a pretty good job of resolving it.
You can limit the maximum number of dropped packets to clients, track the number of times connectivity is lost and the length of time it's lost for, switch to the next best peer host after the first sustained connectivity loss, etc.
ebullientprism
Member
Defective product as per most stores is the physical condition of it (scratches, cracks etc). No gamestop/whatever in the world would consider game bugs as "defective". Thats not their problem.
Of course you could raise a stink and maybe if you make enough of a noise a store manager might accomodate you. But thats the exception, not the rule.
ClosingADoor
Member
Am I glad I don't get worked up about issues like this.
People screwed up. Maybe outside of their fault (management decisions, really unforeseen issues), we don't know. And they are fixing it.
It shouldn't have happened - they also know that from the posts and updates I've seen -, but you don't have to be so hostile about it.
Easy fix, return the game and buy something else. End your relationship with Microsoft and enjoy other games.
Final Verdict
Member
I feel like all 4 campaigns were amazing.
Say what you will about 343, but I think they did a great job with H4's campaign.
Now as far as which one is best, that is a tricky thing to judge. Each and every one of the campaigns is 'best' in certain aspects, and not so good in others.
For example, the somewhat repetitive level design (having to go back through levels) in CE was not very good, though of coarse for the time period it released in, it is totally acceptable.
I think it's easier for me to give out a 'worst' campaign than a 'best', which for me would be Halo 3. And I know that I might get some hate for this, but I personally feel like it was the weakest of the 4. Now when I say it was the worst, I don't mean it is bad of coarse (because all the Halo Campaigns are still so great), just that it is not as great as the others.
My reasoning for that is because it had some issues which I will list below:
+Poor face modeling really distracted me, and took me out of the game, especially since everything else looked much better in comparison.
+Cortana Level
+The ending (to me) seemed much like a repeat of Halo 1's ending to me (Even though i still kinda liked it) with the whole warthog excape.
+I was really disappointed in them completely dropping the Arbiter's story ;(
+Anti climatic ending to Truth/covenant plot...(The cutscene where they kill Truth just didn't seem satisfying, it made truth seem like such a pathetic villain "I am truth, the will of the Gods!")
This is purely my opinion though, and I really enjoyed a lot of the cutscenes in H3, as well as the gameplay which was epic (scarab fights!!).
Like i said, it's hard to pick best....Halo 2 was one of my favs. definitely, but it had issues with it's ending...And CE was great, but the level design hurts it, and 4 was also great, but the ending boss fight was really lame, and some of the plot details with the forerunners got a bit confusing (especially at the part where you talk to the librarian).
IDK, I almost feel like we need a thread to discuss which campaign was the best (looking in retrospect, now that we have had a chance to play them all back to back.)
hope that patch is out early I wanna absolutely smash MP tonight and tomorrow.
Any word on size of patch? As my HDD is very close to being full.
This really isn't going to be pretty if it doesn't work....
Also what's up with the dedicated servers actually not covering everyone you can't advertise that you'll play on dedicated servers, but then you're actually on p2p?
Any word on size of patch? As my HDD is very close to being full.
This really isn't going to be pretty if it doesn't work....
Also what's up with the dedicated servers actually not covering everyone you can't advertise that you'll play on dedicated servers, but then you're actually on p2p?
Uh, as far as I know, 343 has been taking heaps of vitriol and criticism for this launch. One look at twitter tells me that. There's a better way to speak about other posters than to say people who are praising or grateful for 343 are "fellating them".
MS and 343 are hearing the criticism loud and clear, thats why they've been working pretty much non stop since launch trying to fix these problems. I'm disappointed as hell too, I bought an Xbox One for this game. And I've barely had maybe 20 matches, almost all of them lopsided or uneven. So I understand the frustration. But there's nothing you can say that they don't know. They are reading the forums, the gaming sites, twitter, reddit, GAF etc.
Your earlier points were about why are people happy when there is still stuff like no CE playlist, uneven teams on Stonetown, 5v5 on Ivory Tower. My response was that they're aware of it, but have chosen these problems as priorities first. 343 has a partnership with ESL that they've delayed. They have a beta for their next game coming in a month. They know the uphill battle they have not only making sure the game works, but that they can salvage the player base. It's unnecessary for you to dictate what other gamers should or shouldn't be grateful or happy about. Everyone is entitled to feel how they want. And most are upset and unhappy.
The Jackdog
Member
Doesn't the patch notes for halo 2 mention fixes for network issues and host migration?
ClosingADoor
Member
Matchmaking is dedicated, fallback to p2p when there are errors. Custom games and co-op is p2p as far as I know.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Why do so many people confuse clear discourse with high energy? I'm quietly typing, everything is ok.
I went to the store and told them the productwas defective and they told me I was being ungrateful
I went to the store and told them the productwas defective and they told me I was being ungrateful
You can return games to Gamestop for a full refund. I've done it.