Support NeoGAF

[Weetrick]

What if Undertale or Her Story were $60?
I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way.

I don't think every game should cost the same. Those examples are short, focused experiences. No Mans Sky looks more like a traditional, lengthy "AAA experience" based on the advertising and marketing narrative so far.

The idea that an ambitiously massive game should be heavily discounted just because it's from an indie team is flawed. No Mans Sky could end up being a steaming pile of shit but until then, if we believe the marketing hype, it looks worthy of a full price.

Basically it comes down to this: If Nintendo was making this game nobody would question the price.

(Etta, I answered your question in the first paragraph and then kinda ranted. It wasn't directed at you...)

 

[E_Darkness]

I assumed it'd be a $50.

I'd pay whatever they asked mind.

 

[GinoFelino]

For every year it's still in development from when it was announced, I add $20 to my original estimate.

 

[RedSwirl]

As I said in an earlier post, the fewer man hours/not that much to make arguements lose some of thieir bite when no one bats an eye at Japanese games releasing at full price. Do you think developers like Gust or Vanillaware are bigger than some of the larger indie devs?

Everything being put out by Platinum costs a small fraction of what a GTA V costs but thry still release at full or near full price.

The "more man hours" that Activision or Ubisoft put into some games are already compensated by the fact that they reguarly sell 5-15M units.

Other than the odd Minecraft, smaller games have smaller markets regardless of price.

Those niche Japanese games are probably still more costly to produce than high-end indie titles like NMS or The Long Dark. They still often have more people working on them, and man-hours in Japan are probably also more expensive than a lot of other places in the world. Lastly, and this might be a really important aspect, there's not as much of a burden for those niche Japanese games to entice people with a low price because they may not expect to sell a huge number of copies in the first place. Hell, some of those games are around the equivalent of $80 in Japan. There are some aspects of Japan's economy that allow some content producers to support extremely small but dedicated audiences. That's a country that will sell Blu-Rays containing two episodes of an anime for $80 because they know the die-hard fans will buy them no matter what. In effect, there's a higher perceived value in a lot of those niche Japanese games which likely translates to the dedicated audiences buying them in the west.

Indie games don't really have those reliable dedicated audiences. So many new indie games that come out have to do everything to prove themselves and convince people to buy an unknown quantity. That's probably one of the main reasons for the lower prices. The extreme end of that scale is free-to-play.

No Man's Sky probably falls somewhere in-between those lines. It's development cost is probably extremely low, likely not an order of magnitude higher than the other first person survival games you see on Steam unless you factor in how it isn't starting out on Early Access. It is also an extremely unknown quantity to a lot of people, which is why we have all those "but what do you do?" discussions over it. At the same time, Sony is doing a lot to hype it up and I wouldn't be surprised at this point if it got a real marketing campaign. That could seriously ratchet up the cost, but we'll see.

If NMS was $60 I'd probably still pay for it. I'm just saying what I think it will be (likely $40 max) based on the actual factors that determine the cost of a game.

People don't pay based on the amount of man hours and investment that went into a game, they pay based on what they expect to get out of the game.

That's what people buy games based on, but that's not what the price is actually paying for.

 

[Piggus]

$40 US

$170 CAD

 

[enzo_gt]

My guess is $30 minimum, more likely closer to $40.

$40 US

$170 CAD

Also correct answer.

 

[Concept17]

My guess is we'll see a big showing of it at E3, featuring some stuff they haven't shown, and will be marketed as a big holiday release at $60.

 

[FStop7]

I'm sure it will be $50 or $60 US.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

 

[GillianSeed79]

It will be $59.99.

 

[Weetrick]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

This. You said it much better than I did.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

I'm guessing it's going to be $40, but I could easily see $60.

 

[icespide]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

very well said, the only thing you didn't touch on was the idea that if a game is only digital, it can't be $60. indie or not. this is also weird to me

 

[Kayant]

Loool so OP would pay $60 if this was released by EA or one of the big publishers.... Wow just wow.
Why some people can't value a product based on things like quality, length, content etc is mind boggling.

Spoiler

Probably between $40-60

 

[Azriell]

For a long time I thought it was going to be $20. A year or so ago, when Sony started championing NMS and including it along side their triple A lineup, I knew it was going to be $60. I'll hope for less, but I think it's probably worth $60.

 

[GamingOblivion]

After seeing The Witness for $40, I'm scared NMS will be $60. Way too much for an indie title. Even $40 is too much.

$20-$30 will be a sweet spot for me.

lol wut

Why can't an ambitious indie game not be $40-$60? Fuck Steam and mobile gaming for cheapening the value of non-AAA titles.

 

[R_thanatos]

there is a price for indies now ?

What matter is the content inside the game.. it doesn't matter if it's indies or not.

I'll buy the game at the price at release because i'm itching for exploring this galaxy

 

[Azriell]

MS really nailed the pricing down. What we refer to as indie much of the time is really just the evolution of XBLA, and MS set the bar with $10. They had a real fight on their hands to raise it to $15, and I remember the outrage over $20. There was a room of podcast chatter back then on this issue. Of course PSN had the same pricing structure, and its pretty much the same on current gen.

In those early days, the games were small and the price made sense. You would never have confused a 2006 XBLA game for a retail title (also, remember the 50mb limit?). Things were largely the same throughout the generation, although there were a few exceptions. And as quality and scope increased, so did the price. Many people still associate digital only with lower quality games, though, even if it's really not true anymore.

I think if NMS was being presented as a disc game with a digital option, people wouldn't mind paying. It's not really about indie, it's about digital only "arcade games."

 

[MikeE21286]

$59.99

 

[thelastcrusader]

I'm expecting 40 - 60 for NMS and I'd be totally ok with it.

Exactly. Once I get situated next week I plan to buy the Witness at 40 too.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

Agreed.

 

[Voidance]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

Perfect. The notion that an indie title is, by default, worth less that whatever annualized garbage a "AAA" developer produces is preposterous.

Imagine applying this to another form of media, such as music:

"Oh, this band has three members and have been working on their music for a few years? Not worth more than $5!"

 

[Rhaknar]

I thought it was already announced at $60 lol. Price doesnt matter anyway, the game is never coming out ;_;

 

[ZehDon]

AU$80.00 (with VR support) or AU$50.00 (no VR support). Yes, I will pay AU$30.00 just to explore those same aliens worlds in VR.

 

[Hissing Sid]

They're free to charge whatever they want for the game and people are free to buy it when it reaches their personal value zone. I scratched this particular itch back in 93 with Frontier, so I'll probably bite when it hits £9.99 or less.

A PSVR edition would probably change this somewhat.

 

[Sakura]

I'd be perfectly fine with a price of 60

Spoiler

CAD

 

[TemplaerDude]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

This. This, this, this, this. I do not understand why people are so willing to give the big publishers the full price but a small studio dumps years and a lot of their own money into what appears to be a pretty substantial project and charging $60 for it is for some reason where they draw the line. All because of some nebulous definition they have in their head that "indie" = cheap.

This needs to stop. I get not wanting to pay full price for something, I really do, I don't pay full price for most games, I like waiting for sales, I pick and choose my moments. Indie doesn't mean cheap anymore. That's a 2006 definition. It doesn't makes sense anymore. The A - AA tier of developers evaporated last generation and indie developers have taken that mantle. It's a broad spectrum and slapping a strict definition like that on it is no longer applicable and not fair to those guys that pour years of hard work and hard earned money into these projects.

 

[Portugeezer]

Doesn't matter, I assume it will be online only so people will have to buy it. No pirating this one.

 

[RedSwirl]

Doesn't matter, I assume it will be online only so people will have to buy it. No pirating this one.

It's already confirmed to be playable offline.

 

[-Horizon-]

I'm expecting $60. I might not buy it day 1 though because too many other games piling up.

 

[Permanently A]

it should be 5 dollars because that's the price footlongs used to be until obama ruined it

 

[TemplaerDude]

it should be 5 dollars because that's the price footlongs used to be until obama ruined it

I can get behind this reasoning.

 

[Cheat Code]

Anyone who says a game shouldn't be sold at standard retail price on account of it being an indie game can fuck right off. Games should be priced based on the game's content, not how many people made it.

 

[kswiston]

Those niche Japanese games are probably still more costly to produce than high-end indie titles like NMS or The Long Dark. They still often have more people working on them, and man-hours in Japan are probably also more expensive than a lot of other places in the world.

I think you are overestimating the cost of niche Japanese games. If Gust can afford to pump out new Atelier games each year when they sell maybe 200-300k worldwide (and that is probably being generous given the fact that the series now sells less than 100k in Japan), there's no way they cost much more than the $6M budget that was reported for The Witness.

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I agree, but what many users here don't get is that whether or not it justifies its price is completely subjective. It depends on each person's opinion of the game in question: some people may not think The Witness is worth $40, but, at the same time, would pay $40 or more for No Man's Sky, even if it's digital-only.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm willing to pay $60 for NMS and I was happy to pay $40 for The Witness. Just about any game has a chance of being something I might enjoy regardless of whether it's $20, $60 or anywhere in between.

The sooner we can start evaluating games on their own merits rather than how indie/AAA they are, the better off I think we will be.

 

[toddhunter]

Anyone who says a game shouldn't be sold at standard retail price on account of it being an indie game can fuck right off. Games should be priced based on the game's content, not how many people made it.

Games should be priced based on how much people want it, which is exactly how it works.

If it launches at $60 and doesn't sell, it'll be $20 in a short period after. If it does sell, it was exactly the right price.

None of that has anything to do with indie (since that is meaningless), content (since the whims of the masses change over time, and something like extra race tracks is useless to somebody who hates racing). It also has nothing to do with quality, otherwise all AAA games should be pretty much free.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I agree, but what many users here don't get is that whether or not it justifies its price is completely subjective. It depends on each person's opinion of the game in question: some people may not think The Witness is worth $40, but, at the same time, would pay $40 or more for No Man's Sky, even if it's digital-only.

I don't think anybody is questioning that. What they're questioning is what indie has to do with subjective opinions of game quality/worth. After all, even those subjective opinions are based upon something, right?

Did he wake up with no memories and a tattoo on his stomach saying, "don't pay $60 for an indie title." ???

 

[E92 M3]

I'd pay 100 for NMS (which is my dream game). It's always funny to me when people discuss the "finances" of making video games.

 

[Bishop89]

Anyone who says a game shouldn't be sold at standard retail price on account of it being an indie game can fuck right off. Games should be priced based on the game's content, not how many people made it.

So Witcher 3 should cost more than alien isolation?

I don't think so.

Budget title should have budget prices.

That's why infamous first light was a $20 title, not full price.
Edit: more examples, child of light, valiant hearts.

 

[Pooya]

Prices are dictated by marketing budget too, so with NMS I feel it will be at least $50. The Witness has next to no marketing while NMS even had a GI front page.

 

[Unicorn]

Shit will earn my 60$ on day one.

 

[DOWN]

It looks remarkably simple for all of you to claim it seems like $60

 

[More_Badass]

It looks remarkably simple for all of you to claim it seems like $60

How so?

 

[Darkangel]

Whatever Spore cost.

 

[TemplaerDude]

How so?

I'd kind of agree with him in that the gameplay cycle that they've openly discussed actually sounds relatively simple (Land on planets, "research" stuff and hit up nodes to save that info, get to the centre, hope for the best), though we all know they're probably holding back a lot of details on it and I wouldn't speak with any authority about this game yet, nor should anyone else.

Also it still looks batshit awesome to me, I'm not insinuating anything else with this comment.

 

[Box]

I find the idea that indie games can't be priced like traditional games form major publishers more than a little odd, and The Witness is a good example of why. It's a very large and complex game. If Activision developed and published it, the game would be $60. But a small studio financed and built it over the course of 7 years - yet pricing it at $40 is somehow objectionable.

To me, the easiest way to decide if a game should be $60 is to ask whether the game justifies its price. NMS appears to be following a similar path as The Witness: building a very ambitious game with strong production values, interesting ideas, and with a small independent team over a span of many years. If the game is good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't be $60. I really don't care who developed or published it, when it comes to pricing. It's all about the game.

I'm guessing it will end up at $40, but would not be surprised to see it at $60.

It's not odd. Indie games have a reputation for cutting corners to focus on what's deemed important. They're also often hard to appraise and are therefore a greater risk for consumers. Low pricing also helps games spread on word of mouth.

Large publishers are only able to get away with $60 MSRPs because they have an established franchise, a reputed developer, or a product that is safe and easy to market. And then it doesn't always work, leading to deep discounts shortly after launch.

 

[More_Badass]

It's not odd. Indie games have a reputation for cutting corners to focus on what's deemed important. They're also often hard to appraise and are therefore a greater risk for consumers. Low pricing also helps games spread on word of mouth.

Large publishers are only able to get away with $60 MSRPs because they have an established franchise, a reputed developer, or a product that is safe and easy to market. And then it doesn't always work, leading to deep discounts shortly after launch.

Is this the only industry where this happens? Movie tickets and new DVD/Blu-rays tend to be around the same price, regardless of budget or marketing or being the next Marvel move versus some debut film from an up-and-coming director. B&N displays all the new hardcovers, usually around $22, $24, from the latest Lee Child or Stephen King novel to some new author. And so on

 

[...Scatter...]

For every year it's still in development from when it was announced, I add $20 to my original estimate.

Damn. Will The Division be like $120?

 

[ReaperXL7]

I have always been of the opinion that the games industry could use a shake up in it's pricing structures tbh. Something like The Witness, No mans Sky, Witcher , Elder Scrolls games command more value to me so I'd be willing to pay more for them, for instance I think CDPR could easily charged more than $60 for the Witcher 3 and I would have been ok with it. There are too many games these days that cost $60 but do not represent a proportionate value and could be argued that they could cost more in the $30-$40 range but publishers refuse to do that because they feel it devalues their game which is a shame.

This is not the birth of the indie game scene on consoles anymore, many of these independent studios are producing higher and higher quality content and should be free to charge what they believe the game to be worth. Good or bad it will be up to the consumer if that belief in worth is justified.