By the way, am I the only one wo pictured OP's speech in the voice of George Carlin?
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I told my girlfriend she had an imaginary friend..
- Thread starter Rushersauce
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I read the OP before the edits. Like I said, it still stands that both you and your girlfriend have a misunderstanding of each other's beliefs and really just need to sit down and talk about it. I do appreciate that you supported her by going to mass.
bonesmccoy
Banned
In your next relationship OP don't attack someone's sincerely held beliefs during a fight.
Rushersauce
Banned
Thanks for the advizes, Fiction, 213372bu and Admiral Woofington. Much obliged.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Did you miss the part where what he said was a response to her telling him he has no morals because he's an atheist?
Don't stay with her.
It will come up again, and again, and again, and ultimately it will end in a divorce.
You two have fundamental differences in core beliefs and methods of viewing the world, and I've yet to see anything that implies that you two want the same thing or are even remotely compatible.
It will come up again, and again, and again, and ultimately it will end in a divorce.
You two have fundamental differences in core beliefs and methods of viewing the world, and I've yet to see anything that implies that you two want the same thing or are even remotely compatible.
Hero Prinny
Member
some gaffers are weird. hell is wrong with you? dump this woman
wtf? dont listen to this. don't you dare apologize to her.
wtf? dont listen to this. don't you dare apologize to her.
Marty Chinn
Member
That's an oxymoron. You can't be respectful and at the same time tell them it's bullshit.
So...
GF tells op he has no morals, presumably because he's not religious.
Op gets mad, which is understandable, and goes after her religion, which probably wasn't the best choice even though she went after his lack of religion.
GI] gets angry and dumps op.
Honestly, aside from this heated exchange it sounds like you were at least trying to be supportive with attending mass weekly and all. I also don't think your thoughts on potential children and their religion were unreasonanle, but given how important religion is to your GF you two were bound to hit this point sooner or later.
In the end her questioning your morality and you criticizing her religion were bad choices all around. It may not seem like it but I'd say you're lucky that you hit this point now and not a few years down the road when kids are in the picture. Do your best to move on and find someone you're more compatible with.
GF tells op he has no morals, presumably because he's not religious.
Op gets mad, which is understandable, and goes after her religion, which probably wasn't the best choice even though she went after his lack of religion.
GI] gets angry and dumps op.
Honestly, aside from this heated exchange it sounds like you were at least trying to be supportive with attending mass weekly and all. I also don't think your thoughts on potential children and their religion were unreasonanle, but given how important religion is to your GF you two were bound to hit this point sooner or later.
In the end her questioning your morality and you criticizing her religion were bad choices all around. It may not seem like it but I'd say you're lucky that you hit this point now and not a few years down the road when kids are in the picture. Do your best to move on and find someone you're more compatible with.
Giving a candid description doesn't have to be disrespectful, but that doesn't mean it cannot be disrespectful. Also that's not what he initially said. The whole point is that his initial statement was flawed theologically and isn't actually an accurate statement of what Catholics believe, and yet he flaunted it as if it was correct. Even the OP realizes that what he said may have been offensive.
Mike Works
Member
My dad was and still is a Christian (he goes to church every Sunday, but never talks about religion to me or my siblings).
My mom is agnostic or an atheist or something else. They're both intelligent people (and they divorced when I was younger).
Back when they were married and my brother and myself were young (like 7 or 8 years old) my dad wanted to take us to Sunday school. My mom asked us if this was something we wanted to do, and we said sure.
Plus if we went then we each got hockey cards or something. I dunno, we were kids.
So we went I think 3 Sundays in a row. After the third time, I asked my dad if we could stop going (after having talked to my brother) because we found it really boring and didn't care. My dad said that was okay, and we never went together again.
Since then I've only been in a church a few times. Mostly weddings and funerals. Once or twice when I was younger because I slept over at the wrong kid's house on a Saturday night.
My parents didn't divorce because of religion. My dad never tried pushing me towards Christianity again. My mother never pushed me towards atheism. They were and still are really awesome parents who allowed me to make choices at a young age multiple times when it came to faith.
Now I'm older and I see kids indoctrinated with religion and it makes me sad. It's conflicting, because you do need to shape your children for the better (install morality in them, teach them to be kind, etc, and if you believe in a religion then that's pretty much a direct extension of it). But somehow my dad was still able to teach me how to be a good person without needing me to come to church with him.
I'm an agnostic atheist or whatever label works for people. I don't believe in God, but I don't not believe in God. My position is simple: I don't know what happens after we die, but regardless of reward or punishment or neither, I want to be a good person to myself and others during my time on Earth.
I love that religion instills kindness and morality in millions of people. I hate that it instills fear and hatred in millions of others.
I don't think I could marry a religious person unless they were as understanding as my dad was with my mom and with his kids. The question is, do you think your partner can be that tolerant and understanding?
My mom is agnostic or an atheist or something else. They're both intelligent people (and they divorced when I was younger).
Back when they were married and my brother and myself were young (like 7 or 8 years old) my dad wanted to take us to Sunday school. My mom asked us if this was something we wanted to do, and we said sure.
Plus if we went then we each got hockey cards or something. I dunno, we were kids.
So we went I think 3 Sundays in a row. After the third time, I asked my dad if we could stop going (after having talked to my brother) because we found it really boring and didn't care. My dad said that was okay, and we never went together again.
Since then I've only been in a church a few times. Mostly weddings and funerals. Once or twice when I was younger because I slept over at the wrong kid's house on a Saturday night.
My parents didn't divorce because of religion. My dad never tried pushing me towards Christianity again. My mother never pushed me towards atheism. They were and still are really awesome parents who allowed me to make choices at a young age multiple times when it came to faith.
Now I'm older and I see kids indoctrinated with religion and it makes me sad. It's conflicting, because you do need to shape your children for the better (install morality in them, teach them to be kind, etc, and if you believe in a religion then that's pretty much a direct extension of it). But somehow my dad was still able to teach me how to be a good person without needing me to come to church with him.
I'm an agnostic atheist or whatever label works for people. I don't believe in God, but I don't not believe in God. My position is simple: I don't know what happens after we die, but regardless of reward or punishment or neither, I want to be a good person to myself and others during my time on Earth.
I love that religion instills kindness and morality in millions of people. I hate that it instills fear and hatred in millions of others.
I don't think I could marry a religious person unless they were as understanding as my dad was with my mom and with his kids. The question is, do you think your partner can be that tolerant and understanding?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
But that's totally okay, because it's her beliefs that his lack of belief makes him immoral, and religious beliefs should be inherently respected because they're religious.
(Or something.)
I wish people would include all relevant information in Op's to begin with
Anyway, I think the main point here is that you and your gf really need to sit down and have a serious talk. Do you think you can give her the lead or maybe she can compromise with you? I've been in this situation before ( but on the other side) and communication and understanding is key in working in a relationship where the major difference makes you two see life and choices from very different viewpoints.
I want to know how somebody is supposed to "respect somebody's religious views". I want to know what people here think that entails. Non-mormons generally find the Mormon story to be rather absurd. It is a pretty nonsensical story. Let's say you have a friend or significant other that is a Mormon and is clearly asserting that his or her Mormon view is right, much like the OP's GF. In response, what are you allowed to do while also respecting this person's religious views? Are you allowed to give a counter-argument? Is it rude to recite the story of Joseph Smith plainly, without flowery expression, and allow the facts to demonstrate the contradictions to reason? Are you limited to simply "respectfully disagreeing"?
User 100115
Banned
Man you can't do that.
They could say the same thing, that it's their responsibility to save you for sin or some shit. You can't go around telling people that their deeply held religious beliefs are bullshit. They take comfort in it. Leave them to it, and let them have that comfort. It doesn't hurt you
I'm just too nice or some shit, I can't even imagine telling someone that their religion was bullshit.
It's really not that hard to just say nothing, or say:
"While I respect your beliefs, that's not what I believe, and I never will, so lets change the subject."
Chairmanchuck
Member
I am catholic and dont care if our children are catholic or not, but I can totally understand why she would be pissed.
Rushersauce
Banned
I wish people would include all relevant information in Op's to begin with
Anyway, I think the main point here is that you and your gf really need to sit down and have a serious talk. Do you think you can give her the lead or maybe she can compromise with you? I've been in this situation before ( but on the other side) and communication and understanding is key in working in a relationship where the major difference makes you two see life and choices from very different viewpoints.
It's hard when you're desperate to put things accordingly
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And I wonder if we can extend that to Jehovah's Witnesses or hell, Scientology. Seems like some religions are fair game for criticism, but others, well, you're a disrespectful jerk unless you smile and nod.
Future Foundation
Member
What "gumption"?
Man you can't do that.
They could say the same thing, that it's their responsibility to save you for sin or some shit. You can't go around telling people that their deeply held religious beliefs are bullshit. They take comfort in it. Leave them to it, and let them have that comfort. It doesn't hurt you
I'm just too nice or some shit, I can't even imagine telling someone that their religion was bullshit.
This wasn't the OP running around and creating confrontations. His girlfriend made the first act and applied her beliefs as facts and used them to judge him.
It's easy for somebody not invested in the relationship to shake their finger and say "oh no she didn't dump her now" but there is history, feelings, and a lot of other things to consider. I think the two need to cool off and then decide if they can respect each other and move forward. Both people were in the wrong really, but relationship arguments often do tend to get personal.
Right, but I am asking where is this line crossed where it becomes "disrespectful". Is anything but that response considered being disrespectful? If so, why?
If someone is outspokenly pushing their beliefs onto you, then no, I don't think you're under any obligation to stay civil. The OP poorly worded his post originally and made it sound like a random outburst. People don't like abrasive people, that's all there really is to it.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Fedora tier trolling your own girlfriend, learn some tact bro
User 100115
Banned
Which is why I suggested they sit down and have an adult conversation about it. 'While I love you and respect your right to believe what you believe, I am not religious, and I never will be. If this is going to be a problem, we need to solve it now or go our separate ways.'
Edit: in response to your other quote, the line is crossed when you start treating them as delusional or imply you are better than them in some way. Or when you are mean. Ripping apart someone else's religion just because is kinda mean, imo.
Marty Chinn
Member
When you try to tell them they are wrong and you're right, that's when it's no longer respectful.
It seems like she was doing that more than he was.
I'm not seeing much that is wrong with how he described the religion. Of course, details are missing, but I don't feel that he gave a misleading description. You can't compare it to the misleading description that would be given at a Sunday Mass.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
get the fuck out of there. there are plenty of beautiful kind women out there who don't want to indoctrinate their children. and conflicting opinions are of course ok but as soon as she says that tired bullshit about people not having morals without religion, it's time to go. i wouldn't take that insult for a second from friends or family, that is worse than the sarcastic imaginary friend comment imo because it's directed at character and personality
This makes a lot more sense
Do you think you reacted that way just out of frustration or do you have deep feelings about not wanting to teach religion to any of your kids?
If it's the former and you think your gf is worth it then stay together. If religion itself can be something you both can resolve and come to an agreement upon then apologize (probably in a cheesy romantic way since that's what your gf likes) and try to just move past this fight. But if not just sit down and have a talk with her that you guys are looking for different things AND that you apologize for insulting her beliefs.
Even though you might not agree with it and she was in the wrong, trust me when I say it will go a long way in not making her feel as bitter and bad about herself as possible. Especially if it's someone you care about. Of course you will only need to do that if you decide to break up or not.
I think that depends on the tone and the people discussing it. Someone saying they disagree with me or find my beliefs hard to believe doesn't offend me. Someone implying that I'm stupid or brainwashed probably would though. I dunno I just think its not hard to feel out that line.
Marty Chinn
Member
It goes both ways.
She thinks you have no moral compass because you're not a staunch believer. She thinks she's morally superior than you because she's a catholic. She thinks you have no say in the education of your hypothetical children and that you might be a bad influence because you're not a catholic and you're the one beating yourself to death because you said some shitty things about religion in a moment of rage ?
I'm agnostic and I agree that you shouldn't have talked about her belief in God that way but man it feels like your future is doomed or you'll just cave in, let her bully you and claim moral superiority over you for the rest of your lives.
I'm agnostic and I agree that you shouldn't have talked about her belief in God that way but man it feels like your future is doomed or you'll just cave in, let her bully you and claim moral superiority over you for the rest of your lives.
But that's kinda the point of every discussion ever since the first monkey fell from a tree and called himself man...
Okay yeah, time to have a talk with her, tell her again how you feel. How you don't appreciate being labeled as someone with "No morals" just because you don't believe in God/religion and how you believe children should have the freedom to choose religion. Also make sure to start off with apologizing for making fun of her beliefs (aka be the bigger person and maybe she'll apologize to you for the no morals shit. - not saying she will but maybe...).
And finally if she doesn't budge when it comes to freedom of religion for your hypothetical children, tell her it isn't going to work then.
That is pretty much all you can do as it won't work out if you BOTH can't respect the others beliefs let alone agree on your future children. That'd only make you both unhappy, cause a lot of issues for both you and her along with your future children.
(also protip: give as much information in the op before starting the thread so you don't need to try and salvage it later on)
Good luck with sorting this out mate.
DOWN
Banned
That's a bit non-confrontational. I think the OP was disrespectful, but certainly it is fair to open a conversation that challenges or questions each others beliefs.Man you can't do that.
They could say the same thing, that it's their responsibility to save you for sin or some shit. You can't go around telling people that their deeply held religious beliefs are bullshit. They take comfort in it. Leave them to it, and let them have that comfort. It doesn't hurt you
I'm just too nice or some shit, I can't even imagine telling someone that their religion was bullshit.
It's really not that hard to just say nothing, or say:
"While I respect your beliefs, that's not what I believe, and I never will, so lets change the subject."
What if they honestly believe that the religious beliefs in question require a mind that is coaxed into believing the religious view? Things like being brought up with it at an early age, feelings of coercing from alleged eternal damnation, and an eternal reward for faithfulness? These things aren't really saying somebody is stupid for believing, but trying to acknowledge the psychological tactics used to prep a mind to believe in something while ignoring the clear logical issues.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
This.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
hm
you guys should probably break up, but this is GAF, so i'm fully prepared for OP to ignore us
you guys should probably break up, but this is GAF, so i'm fully prepared for OP to ignore us
Rushersauce
Banned
I should have just received the punch and not answer. It would have been the right thing. then, when things cooled down, discuss it like adults. You need 2 to argue.
Marty Chinn
Member
Okay, when you insist.
Yes, but that doesn't mean she wasn't being disrespectful of your beliefs.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, being a doormat is the way to go.
/s
What you said may have been harsh, but I can understand why you reacted the way you did. Especially after reading the additional info you added to the op. Being told you have no morals is pretty messed up and cold. I say this as a former catholic (deist now), and yeah, very religious people can be grating. Still could've handled it with more tact though.
Elitist1945
Member
Holy fuck you never cease to amaze. 10/10.
Rushersauce
Banned
Just to discuss it later, when she was, you know, calmer?
No, you did nothing wrong. You are looking at this from the view that "If I do something that makes her want to break the relationship, then I did something wrong." That is not a healthy way to have a relationship. You did nothing wrong. It can be argued that you could have been nicer, but you didn't do anything that was malicious. If she is unwilling to be with you because you do not share her faith and won't treat her religious views as an unquestionable fact, then that is on her. It isn't your duty to do whatever it takes to maintain the relationship. If she has created the impasse, it is not your responsibility to cross blindly. Sometimes, you're just better off going separate ways.
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