……forgetit
Member
Easy scaling with the 1080p games on the main console.
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IHS: Nintendo portable NX console to launch this year
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Easy scaling with the 1080p games on the main console.
PdotMichael
Banned
3D doesn't need a linear factor.
We are also at the old problem of speculations based on other sepculations based on other speculations.
Aztechnology
Member
What's this about 3D?
Also it's a matter of aspect ratio. But we're just going off the "Insider" info claiming "higher than you'd expect but lower than you'd hope". But yea speculation is fun.
Refreshment.01
Member
From the patent thread:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=191898663
In the first thread about free from displays, i made the following suggestion:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=146842235
Nintendo could potentially conceive the device just with the two emerging circle pads (or equivalent) and have the front of the device face button free. Basically the image from the patent with the triggers been those trackpad/wheel bumpers. For the people that want traditional inputs, transparent button overlays that can be attached to grooves on the bezel could be offered.
There are some interesting benefits if they ship the device like this:
1) The PCB would be a lot cleaner.
2) The device would have smaller phycial dimensions.
3) Thematic button overlays. N64, GC, SNES, NES which would be great a for a potential relaunch of a more robust back catalogue service.
4) The Device would look closer to a cellphone and offer a similar control experience. Giving Nintendo a chance to possibly expand their busyness to this type of user.
5) The interface will look a lot simpler and less "intimidating" for potential new users.
The button overlays can come equipped with a NFC chip, so the device knows exactly what overlay is using.
Last edited by Refreshment.01; 01-11-2016 at 09:48 PM.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=191898663
In the first thread about free from displays, i made the following suggestion:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=146842235
refreshment.01 said:
Nintendo could potentially conceive the device just with the two emerging circle pads (or equivalent) and have the front of the device face button free. Basically the image from the patent with the triggers been those trackpad/wheel bumpers. For the people that want traditional inputs, transparent button overlays that can be attached to grooves on the bezel could be offered.
There are some interesting benefits if they ship the device like this:
1) The PCB would be a lot cleaner.
2) The device would have smaller phycial dimensions.
3) Thematic button overlays. N64, GC, SNES, NES which would be great a for a potential relaunch of a more robust back catalogue service.
4) The Device would look closer to a cellphone and offer a similar control experience. Giving Nintendo a chance to possibly expand their busyness to this type of user.
5) The interface will look a lot simpler and less "intimidating" for potential new users.
The button overlays can come equipped with a NFC chip, so the device knows exactly what overlay is using.
Last edited by Refreshment.01; 01-11-2016 at 09:48 PM.
Portugeezer
Member
He means polygonal graphics.
Anyway, if Wii U gamepad is 480p at 6inches... I expect the next handheld to be 480p, saves power, frees up more resources for games.
PdotMichael
Banned
really?
I made this low quality, speculative mockup of what the form factor might look like...
Inner screen and outer screen rather than DS's top and bottom screens. The outer screen would be touch sensitive, and the inner screen could be 3D, with physical buttons between the two screens. Gyroscope for 3D camera control.
Edit: Removed
Inner screen and outer screen rather than DS's top and bottom screens. The outer screen would be touch sensitive, and the inner screen could be 3D, with physical buttons between the two screens. Gyroscope for 3D camera control.
Edit: Removed
Depends on the layout/form factor of the handheld, but yeah, they'd probably end up being pretty damn small.
The reason I chose the example I did (Wind Waker) is that movement is entirely handled with the left stick, and you don't generally need to touch the camera controls on the right stick that often. It's a different matter entirely for games which use both sticks as primary inputs (e.g. FPSs), but I suppose you could hold ZR to toggle between movement and items selection?
Again, though, I don't actually claim that these donut screens would actually be useful in most (or even many) games, just that if Nintendo were to be using screens in the shape of donuts, that seems to be the most likely application for them.
They did with the 3D screen on the 3DS.
If they've got a multi-year contract with Nintendo to produce displays it wouldn't really matter much to Nintendo even if they went bankrupt; one of their competitors would happily purchase that portion of their business, given how rare long-terms contracts likely are in the industry.
You don't want my post? What's wrong with my post?
Seriously, though, you're talking about billymonks' mockup, right?
TheMoon
Member
I made this low quality, speculative mockup of what the form factor might look like...
Inner screen and outer screen rather than DS's top and bottom screens. The outer screen would be touch sensitive, and the inner screen could be 3D, with physical buttons between the two screens. Gyroscope for 3D camera control.
of course you had to use playstation buttons
this is also impossible to hold comfortably and just all around looks unusable.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
A circle? Burn it with fire now!I made this low quality, speculative mockup of what the form factor might look like...
Inner screen and outer screen rather than DS's top and bottom screens. The outer screen would be touch sensitive, and the inner screen could be 3D, with physical buttons between the two screens. Gyroscope for 3D camera control.
I think something like this would be the best solution. I liked the double screen with the DS series. But in this time, people would prefer more something like this.
The shoulder will be scroll buttons + includes AR functionality. the controller front will maybe have an extended display like this:
But only to extend the display, not to show you important elements from the game. The screen will be touchalble, but not replace the regular buttons.
The rest of mockups will not work.
Hey, did you make these mockups? The first of the two you posted is similar to the image of the system I had in my head a while ago, with the concave sides. Yeah, I could see a combination of the first mockup with the display extended farther across the rest of the surface of the system like in the second mockup. The main game content would still be in the center, not obscured by the controls, of course.
There's one more thing I would add. Interchangeable controls: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811351
TheMoon
Member
Lol, yeah, just an idea of what a donut display could look like. The outer ring would block the hands from using those buttons unless they were further up the sides. I'll go sit in the corner.of course you had to use playstation buttons
this is also impossible to hold comfortably and just all around looks unusable.
Refreshment.01
Member
There hasn't been a single mock up withouth buttons.
Are you interpreting things correctly?
Rodney McKay
Member
That Vita looking mockup running Metroid Prime doesn't seem to have buttons on the face, and there are definitely a few people talking about the possibility in their posts.
And as far as digital buttons go as an option, Nintendo would have to do something pretty special (really crazy haptic feedback, click able screen areas, etc) to make them feel as good as real buttons otherwise the system is not going to feel great for playing games.
Mobile developers have been making games with touch screen buttons for nearly 10 years and I still haven't played one that feels good, unless it only has one button on either side of the screen.
I only want touch screen buttons when they are used to compliment physical buttons, like having an item slot in the touch screen in Ocarina of Time 3D.
Refreshment.01
Member
Did you took the time to read my post in this page? A serious question XD
It has an explanation about the patent figure and links to the topic discussing aspects on how it could work.
You could read that and then tell me what do you think.
Edit: You edited. Not in the face but it has at least 2 shoulder tracpads/wheels that would detected a variety of inputs and two circle pads or analogue sticks.
i' ve been saying this since the pre Wii U days when these type of mock ups showed up. You can't do it like that for a multitue of reasons. It might look cool but is not functional.The shoulder will be scroll buttons + includes AR functionality. the controller front will maybe have an extended display like this:
But only to extend the display, not to show you important elements from the game. The screen will be touchalble, but not replace the regular buttons.
Besides, no developer in it's right mind will waste rendering time in things that will be obstructed from view. It goes against the most basic principle of real time rendering.
Maybe i' ll explain further in other post.
That's assuming the additional real estate is the only benefit (and forgetting about holding the controller one handed vertically, a la Wii remote). Other added benefits may be: Context sensitive buttons, radial menus around the analogue sticks, ambient/peripheral effects that don't disrupt the regular 16:9 screen, plus the "wow" factor of a free form display.
I'm firmly in the 'wait and see' camp on this.
I don't think it's as big a waste as you do. It's essentially changing the aspect ratio. Like altering your field of view in a PC game. It's very commonplace in fact.
Personally I think the benefits I've listed above are more than enough to outweigh any perceived "wastage" from your thumbs covering a bit of the screen.
Refreshment.01
Member
We had the discussion in the patent thread, glad at least you give a chance to different things.
Here's a way to look at it:
Think of it as an evlotuion of the DS concept, a TS (Tri S) actually. The duties of the bottom screen in the predecessors will be shared by the areas near each hand in the Free Form Display. Those areas would be dedicated to UI elements, AND NOT necessarily rendering parts of the game world there. It could change somewhat depending on the game.
An example would be like playing Majora's Mask on a 3DS but now the virtual buttons more accessible. The interface gets a lot more simple also.
We had the discussion in the patent thread, glad at least you give it a chance to different things.
Here's a way to look at it:
Think of it as an evlotuion of the DS concept, a TS (Tri S) actually. The duties of the bottom screen in the predecessors will be shared by the areas near each hand in the Free Form Display. Those areas would be dedicated to UI elements, AND NOT necessarily rendering parts of the game world there. It could change somewhat depending on the game.
Yeah I can see this and I agree it could also be used like this very well. But I don't see a problem with that space being used as part of the screen, for reasons I mentioned above.
Refreshment.01
Member
It is part of the screen. Never said the contrary.
Developers could put whatever they want in there. But most cases they wont waste rendering resources in areas that are obscured by the player's hand.
Astral Dog
Member
If the NX console launches next year, what will happen to Zelda?
But what would happen with games like Smash that need the fast response offered by physical buttons?We had the discussion in the patent thread, glad at least you give a chance to different things.
Here's a way to look at it:
Think of it as an evlotuion of the DS concept, a TS (Tri S) actually. The duties of the bottom screen in the predecessors will be shared by the areas near each hand in the Free Form Display. Those areas would be dedicated to UI elements, AND NOT necessarily rendering parts of the game world there. It could change somewhat depending on the game.
An example would be like playing Majora's Mask on a 3DS but now the virtual buttons more accessible. The interface gets a lot more simple also.
Then it will be on Wii U in 2016 after all. And maybe a sub(?) port on NX handheld. They made Hyrule Warriors Legends so who knows.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Million dollar question innit.
Rodney McKay
Member
Honestly, I think when most people are talking about "buttons" they are talking about the face buttons if the controller.
And at least for me, shoulder triggers and back-of-the-controller buttons just don't have the same feel as face buttons when it comes to playing games, Nintendo games even more so. Having used the Steam Controller for quite some time, I don't like to assign main actions on the grip buttons, they just don't feel right for some reason.
Im sure if I was forced to use grip buttons on place of face buttons I could probably get used to it, but it's definitely not my preferred method, and the fact that Sony and Microsoft still have controllers with face buttons if going to make it that much harder for me to get used to if Nintendo does go that route.
Edit: and I did see your idea about button overlays on top of the touch screen and I suppose that's a potential solution, but not one I'd see Nintendo doing. Looking at mobile devices as an example, there have definitly been those sort of things that have come out, but none I've heard great things about. The preferred method of playing traditional button games is just to use a Bluetooth controller.
Refreshment.01
Member
Before we start, try to follow the context of the discussion. Just a friendly advice XD
1- In the first post of mine in the thread i talked about using phisical buttons overlays in the touch screen. This will allow many benefits:
a) Symmetric controls for right and left users.
b) Variety of diffewrent button layouts.
c) The device is kept simple and for the traditioanl gamer there are the phisical buttons overlays.
You can read that post which has more detailed explanation.
2- Bare in mind i talk about how feasible the patent mock up is. And it is more than people give it credit. Maybe Nintendo gets some fear in them and includes 2 face buttons. But them the mock concept won't reach it's potential.
3 - On to Your Smash Bros example. Easy path: You have to analogue sticks in there XD
I meant rendering part of the game world.
And yeah I totally agree, they can and will use it how they want. We just disagree that it's that big of a waste or that developers will see it as a waste.
I mean even on a 16:9 display, your eyes aren't focussed on the whole thing at once. It's like saying its a waste to render to the edge of the screen.
We aren't talking about a static image here. In an FPS for example, you're constantly moving your view, and those areas you aren't focused on/are obscured by your hands are not a waste of rendering resources, surely?
But the right stick is normally for quick smash attacks, & using the right stick to relegate what kind of attack you would do (replacing the A & B buttons) wouldn't particularly end well.
EndlessFloydian
Member
So, if only the handheld is launching this year, we may not see it fully unveiled til E3, ala DS and 3DS.
Alright I guess.
Alright I guess.
SuperSonic1305
Member
If I can't play everything on the console part then fuck Nintendo. I don't want handhelds anymore. I just end up playing them at home 99% of the time anyway.
HanShotFirst
Member
I think they announced the 3ds(or a "new handheld") before e3 but didn't fully unveil it until then. so your probably right.
Fourth Storm
Member
They'll show the system before then and save the software reveal and hands on for E3. That's how they've handled it in the past with Wii and Wii U. Wii U was a year between hardware and actual software unveiling. 3DS showed merely the system at E3 (were there real games shown at E3 2010? I think it was just demos and 3D remasters), but they didn't launch the system until April 2011.
The handled is the part of the NX i look forward the most It's the Nintendo output platform that's been most satisfying to me over the years and I really hope they keep up the good work on that front, the last bastion of quality handheld gaming in a world of smartphones (Vita...I love you but you know I'm right)
It's the Nintendo output platform that's been most satisfying to me over the years and I really hope they keep up the good work on that front, the last bastion of quality handheld gaming in a world of smartphones (Vita...I love you but you know I'm right)You don't, but the number of people who do outnumber those who want consoles from Nintendo. Either way, you'll likely be able to play most of the same games on both devices.
Refreshment.01
Member
While what you say is true, the example doesn't apply here.
IN your example when playing on the TV even if the player can't grasp the entirety of the screen, he can change his focus to access the extra information.
With the handheld, the gameworld below your hands can't be viewed no matter if you change your focus.
Funny enough, if we had mass market eye tracking solutions, we could track the player eye sight and just do the "heavy" rendering in the parts of the screen he's focused on. i' ve talked about this in the "controller innovations" thread if you are interested.
Assuming they don't use the phisical overlays i suggest? Well...
Let's see: There's the 2 shoulder trackpads/wheels (with clicks) and possibly 2 more buttons if they go with the New 3DS layout. Leaving this aside.
The important part (talking about the patent figure):
The two low profile (low been key) circle pads are your "Home" position. Your thumbs fall naturally in them. So you have intutive access to the four cardinal positions with the circle pads acting as your point of reference. So for example: In the right circle pad, touching left from it is the equivalent of pressing "A" and touching up from it = "B" press.
That'd still feel insanely weird. But as long as the GameCube Adapter is still compatible, most competitive players will just disregard it as normal. Which reminds me, could you explain what you meant by the physical overlays? The way you described it in the other post was a bit confusing.
Refreshment.01
Member
It is explained in the link to the pattent thread. But the short version:
We could pack Smash Bros with a phisical button overlay with the GameCube layout. This overlay goes on top of the Free Form Touch screen. The handheld has grooves in the bezel to securely attach the overlay.
Or for another example. The 2 original Pokemon re releases could be packed with a "A" and "B" overlay and have the free form display render the outside of a GameBoy color with texture and purple color, to give the impression of actually palying that system.
There you have your phisycal buttons and the system simplicity is not comrpomised.
Which probably won't be used competitively anyway because the controller would likely be wireless. This is why it's imperative for the future of competitive Smash that the GameCube Adapter works on the NX Console. But I suppose your solution would work for the NX Handheld.
Robottiimu2000
Member
Beta test their new hardware?
I made this low quality, speculative mockup of what the form factor might look like...
Inner screen and outer screen rather than DS's top and bottom screens. The outer screen would be touch sensitive, and the inner screen could be 3D, with physical buttons between the two screens. Gyroscope for 3D camera control.
I couldn't come up with a worse design if I tried, ugh.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Why would anything happen to Zelda? It's the series 30th anniversary. Do you think they'll sit on it another year just to launch with a new console when numerous other Dev teams within Nintendo will have games ready to by then? I think it'd be absurd to do that, and even Nintendo isn't that dumb.
Night Angel
Member
I could. Make that, but spherical.
Yeah not the best example I know, but I was using it more to explain the whole wasted rendering resources thing.
On the obstruction issue; I've seen HUDs that take up more screen space than my thumbs do on a smartphone screen. And that's a regular aspect ratio screen. With a wider screen, I really cannot see it being an issue.
Having said that, I agree using that space in a similar way to the bottom screen on DS would be the simplest thing to do.
This is true. Nintendo patented some eye tracking thing recently, maybe they share that idea
This is true. Nintendo patented some eye tracking thing recently, maybe they share that idea
Do you have a link please? I don't remember seeing that.