Is Nintendo really gonna spend more than twice the amount of money for a free form screen than an ordinary nor? :/
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IHS: Nintendo portable NX console to launch this year
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Is Nintendo really gonna spend more than twice the amount of money for a free form screen than an ordinary nor? :/
Imagine the NX reel with people using the donut screen as a shuriken
Reposting link for new page (this isn't new news) http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...-supply-free-form-lcds-nintendo/#.VJD2nsaleiw
Graphics Horse
Member
I think the freeform display will be happening in some form, and Nintendo has been talking about some kind of new interface. can't find the right quote
NX rumors are so nutty at this point. Who knows what it will end up being like?
That being said, if I had to guess which form it will take if it launches this year, I almost want to say that it will be both a handheld and a console, but not a hybrid. This is why everyone seems so confused about it; since it's supposed to be able to easily develop games for both, I think it would make sense for Nintendo to launch a handheld in Japan first and a console in the rest of the world due to how that is the strongest platform for those regions.
I don't know how often hardware companies do some multiple SKU/form factor launch of a product like that, so I don't know how feasible that idea would be, but it does make it seem like there could potentially be less likelihood for shortages at launch since while being able to do a simultaneous worldwide launch (or at least pretty close to it). That would also allow them to make a biggest impact with their dominant form factor in each region before potentially releasing the other form factor at a later date, which I think could possibly have other perks for owning both (such as shared processing) as well as certain strengths/advantages of each platform despite mostly having the same launch line up of titles. The NX would almost be described as a modular system rather than just a "handheld", "console", or even a "hybrid", but each form factor can stand on it's own and play many of the same games. It would be like the Voltron of video game consoles.
This may piss off some of the die-hard fans, but combined with ramping up mobile output by then and potentially having all those platforms being able to share many games with lots of content for everyone, I think they could make the biggest impact immediately and then please the people that want both platforms later, similar to the n3DS launch for the non-XL version after the XL version. The platforms could almost be named and marketed like Pokemon games (ie. NX RED would be the handheld while NX BLUE would be the console, then NX YELLOW is both combined). This would at least allow consumers to realize they are the "same system" with a few differences with each version, but most of your games would still play on whichever one you own and they could be sold together without necessarily having to cannibalize the sales of the other platform. On top of that, they could create any number of new SKUs and form factors with the naming system (which is something Nintendo, I believe it might have been Iwata, has said could be possible with the NX).
The main thing I just can't figure out with my idea is how they can price everything to make it both appealing to how Nintendo typically prices their hardware for profitability as well as how it can be the right price for consumers to buy into not just one system, but the whole ecosystem. Basically, any way I look at it, it's going to be hard to convince people that they WANT to buy both the handheld and the console and if it was just up to Nintendo wanting to be the most profitable, they don't really have to even put out a form factor in regions where it would normally perform poorly. Sure, they may have some for the people in Japan who really care about playing on a console, for example, but there isn't much incentive for anyone (Nintendo, consumers on the whole, and even developers) to develop with every platform in mind but rather to go for a lowest common denominator approach. This makes me a little worried about the hardware side of things, because it makes a lot of sense for Nintendo to have some weaker guts on the console side of things in order to bring down the price of the console, to have similar chips in their handheld as the console to cut down production costs, and to have people more willing to purchase both. I could imagine that would mean that Nintendo would put the money that would drive up the costs into the features/"gimmicks" again rather than the power of the devices, and the core gamers and 3rd party developers will be very unhappy about that, even if it makes for some very compelling new systems with their own identities despite sharing so many things. Anything that can be looked at as the console being "nerfed" in power in order to be more inline with the handheld, will not go over well, even if there is a possibility for something like the shared processing/cloud computing that could be used to boost some processing power for these devices beyond just what hardware guts each individual system has.
The idea that started popping up a few years ago, that this may be the last generation for dedicated hardware due to the idea that lots of stuff can be handled on the server/cloud side, can mean that the actual hardware might not be as crucial for the future of the system as people might think, but it's still a big hurdle to get past that none of the big 3 have done yet; if not in technical terms, at the very least in terms of perception. Internet bandwidth is a real obstacle for a straight cloud based future, I think, for dedicated gaming devices, but if Nintendo has found a way to cost-effectively boost power to desired levels across all their platforms which doesn't limit them as much as it would normally based on the needs for the platform as well as profitability, that could be the holy grail of console development innovation. More high quality output for handhelds without massive battery drain? High end graphics for a more modestly sized/priced console? An actual option for potentially "virtually upgrading" dedicated hardware in power while having the actual hardware iterations be more about features and form factors than about the power, at least in the way that we normally think of when it comes to games rather than power upgrades to stream data faster, boost other hardware better, run the OS better, or even something like output higher resolutions (for when 4k TVs become more common and games support that output).
I'm definitely talking about of my ass with all this speculation, but it seems to me that many of these ideas and the solutions to lots of the problems video game hardware manufactures like Nintendo have been trying to tackle are just out of their grasp, but at the same time, it's so close to making it a reality that I could believe Nintendo has figured out their own solution, even if it's not how I described nor if it's how Microsoft and Sony will choose to handle things in their hardware future. Who knows what advances could come along in the next few years that make even the most innovative solution Nintendo could come up start to look ham-handed and obsolete? I do think a shared processing solution Nintendo could create would potentially make Sony and Microsoft's handling of cloud processing look similarly subpar and dated if executed properly, while also paving a new path for the future of the industry. I guess we will have to wait and see.
That being said, if I had to guess which form it will take if it launches this year, I almost want to say that it will be both a handheld and a console, but not a hybrid. This is why everyone seems so confused about it; since it's supposed to be able to easily develop games for both, I think it would make sense for Nintendo to launch a handheld in Japan first and a console in the rest of the world due to how that is the strongest platform for those regions.
I don't know how often hardware companies do some multiple SKU/form factor launch of a product like that, so I don't know how feasible that idea would be, but it does make it seem like there could potentially be less likelihood for shortages at launch since while being able to do a simultaneous worldwide launch (or at least pretty close to it). That would also allow them to make a biggest impact with their dominant form factor in each region before potentially releasing the other form factor at a later date, which I think could possibly have other perks for owning both (such as shared processing) as well as certain strengths/advantages of each platform despite mostly having the same launch line up of titles. The NX would almost be described as a modular system rather than just a "handheld", "console", or even a "hybrid", but each form factor can stand on it's own and play many of the same games. It would be like the Voltron of video game consoles.
This may piss off some of the die-hard fans, but combined with ramping up mobile output by then and potentially having all those platforms being able to share many games with lots of content for everyone, I think they could make the biggest impact immediately and then please the people that want both platforms later, similar to the n3DS launch for the non-XL version after the XL version. The platforms could almost be named and marketed like Pokemon games (ie. NX RED would be the handheld while NX BLUE would be the console, then NX YELLOW is both combined). This would at least allow consumers to realize they are the "same system" with a few differences with each version, but most of your games would still play on whichever one you own and they could be sold together without necessarily having to cannibalize the sales of the other platform. On top of that, they could create any number of new SKUs and form factors with the naming system (which is something Nintendo, I believe it might have been Iwata, has said could be possible with the NX).
The main thing I just can't figure out with my idea is how they can price everything to make it both appealing to how Nintendo typically prices their hardware for profitability as well as how it can be the right price for consumers to buy into not just one system, but the whole ecosystem. Basically, any way I look at it, it's going to be hard to convince people that they WANT to buy both the handheld and the console and if it was just up to Nintendo wanting to be the most profitable, they don't really have to even put out a form factor in regions where it would normally perform poorly. Sure, they may have some for the people in Japan who really care about playing on a console, for example, but there isn't much incentive for anyone (Nintendo, consumers on the whole, and even developers) to develop with every platform in mind but rather to go for a lowest common denominator approach. This makes me a little worried about the hardware side of things, because it makes a lot of sense for Nintendo to have some weaker guts on the console side of things in order to bring down the price of the console, to have similar chips in their handheld as the console to cut down production costs, and to have people more willing to purchase both. I could imagine that would mean that Nintendo would put the money that would drive up the costs into the features/"gimmicks" again rather than the power of the devices, and the core gamers and 3rd party developers will be very unhappy about that, even if it makes for some very compelling new systems with their own identities despite sharing so many things. Anything that can be looked at as the console being "nerfed" in power in order to be more inline with the handheld, will not go over well, even if there is a possibility for something like the shared processing/cloud computing that could be used to boost some processing power for these devices beyond just what hardware guts each individual system has.
The idea that started popping up a few years ago, that this may be the last generation for dedicated hardware due to the idea that lots of stuff can be handled on the server/cloud side, can mean that the actual hardware might not be as crucial for the future of the system as people might think, but it's still a big hurdle to get past that none of the big 3 have done yet; if not in technical terms, at the very least in terms of perception. Internet bandwidth is a real obstacle for a straight cloud based future, I think, for dedicated gaming devices, but if Nintendo has found a way to cost-effectively boost power to desired levels across all their platforms which doesn't limit them as much as it would normally based on the needs for the platform as well as profitability, that could be the holy grail of console development innovation. More high quality output for handhelds without massive battery drain? High end graphics for a more modestly sized/priced console? An actual option for potentially "virtually upgrading" dedicated hardware in power while having the actual hardware iterations be more about features and form factors than about the power, at least in the way that we normally think of when it comes to games rather than power upgrades to stream data faster, boost other hardware better, run the OS better, or even something like output higher resolutions (for when 4k TVs become more common and games support that output).
I'm definitely talking about of my ass with all this speculation, but it seems to me that many of these ideas and the solutions to lots of the problems video game hardware manufactures like Nintendo have been trying to tackle are just out of their grasp, but at the same time, it's so close to making it a reality that I could believe Nintendo has figured out their own solution, even if it's not how I described nor if it's how Microsoft and Sony will choose to handle things in their hardware future. Who knows what advances could come along in the next few years that make even the most innovative solution Nintendo could come up start to look ham-handed and obsolete? I do think a shared processing solution Nintendo could create would potentially make Sony and Microsoft's handling of cloud processing look similarly subpar and dated if executed properly, while also paving a new path for the future of the industry. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Vyse The Legend
Member
The rumors are definitely all over the place, and I yearn for the halcyon, simpler days of the NX just being a straightforward, hybrid console.
Given all the latest rumors, I suspect it will be a single screen handheld but backwards compatible with DS games, in the same way the Wii U emulates them now on the gamepad. Next year, a "console" version will release that will mostly be a streaming but with some slight processing power to keep costs low. It'll play the same games but with improved performance, a la New 3DS enhanced games.
Given all the latest rumors, I suspect it will be a single screen handheld but backwards compatible with DS games, in the same way the Wii U emulates them now on the gamepad. Next year, a "console" version will release that will mostly be a streaming but with some slight processing power to keep costs low. It'll play the same games but with improved performance, a la New 3DS enhanced games.
anothertech
Member
haha, we shall see Mr. Hayase...
NippleViking
Banned
Hope you don't mind Optimiss, but I had a crack at reworking your illustration a little bit. My sketch is still super far from perfect - I'm terrible at photoshop/design-work as you can likely tell, and ergonomically my design doesn't make sound sense (just realized that with my take, hands will likely end up blocking the speaker, for example) - but I really liked your ideal of the NX handheld.
Edit: Per OpenRob's comment, just pretend that the diagram is no longer a 3D screen, and further, no longer needs the front-facing cameras. Or vice-versa - with no touch-screen with 3d; personally I think Nintendo would drop 3D long before they abandoned touch-controls, though if they're pursuing console-to-handheld synergy, maybe there's a slim-change they will abandon the touch-screen.
Edit: Per OpenRob's comment, just pretend that the diagram is no longer a 3D screen, and further, no longer needs the front-facing cameras. Or vice-versa - with no touch-screen with 3d; personally I think Nintendo would drop 3D long before they abandoned touch-controls, though if they're pursuing console-to-handheld synergy, maybe there's a slim-change they will abandon the touch-screen.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Why are people speculating that there is a console coming too? What if the NX is just a handheld and nothing more?
Well until that's confirmed there's still going to be console speculation.
openrob
Member
Hope you don't mind Optimiss, but I had a crack at reworking your illustration a little bit. My sketch is still super far from perfect - I'm terrible at photoshop/design-work as you can likely tell, and ergonomically my design doesn't make sound sense (just realized that with my take, hands will likely end up blocking the speaker, for example) - but I really liked your ideal of the NX handheld.
Can I also throw out that the reason the 3DS top screen wasn't touch was that if people were to keep touching the screen the smudges etc would interfere with the 3D effect. Not knocking the design, but the screen will be 3D or touch...But not both
ArchedThunder
Banned
Because everything points toward NX being a platform that contains a handheld version and a console version.
Graphics Horse
Member
Because they've talked about thier next two systems as being like 'brothers'. I don't think that means they have to be released in the same year necessarily, but it's natural to expect an upcoming console with the info we have.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Oh okay, I haven't really been following the leaks that much.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Roughly the same size as the Vita. So yeah, bare minimum. I just hope they don't cheap put on the screen. So used to the high dpi from all these phones, the Vita almost pushes the territory of pixelation (but I adjust quickly), Nintendo's current handhelds even worse to look at after.
Most phones manufacturing cost are not much higher than $200. They rely on different models, one relies on software sales the other Hardware.
Take the IPhone for example.
http://www.businessinsider.com/analysis-iphone-6-plus-costs-prices-and-profits-2014-9
Uh... It's called a profit margin? Think about it, if the phone costs $200-250 to physically produce, then there's also tons of stuff to add to that in the final price: R&D, shipping, the store's cut, taxes and then... The profit margin. That's how it becomes a $700 phone.
Sharp is in dire financial straits, circling the drain. And there hasn't been anything more on the freeform displays since 2014 from the company. So Idk about how stable a supplier Sharp is.
People always seem to forget that you need to pay someone to design and develop the product. Then pay to ship a product to a store. Rent the retail space for the store. Pay people to work in the store. Pay utilities to keep the lights on. Advertise the product so people know it exists.... And then still make enough money to fund the development of the next product.
Not to mention the development and maintenance costs of anything included free with the product like online services and apps and such.
Holy shit yes. Nintendo at least acknowledging Unity's existence is a good sign, but does it really have any relationship with Epic and Unreal? As far as we've seen Nintendo kinda just launched the Wii U and then Epic figured out Unreal Engine 3 worked well enough on it. Nintendo needs to have already been talking to the middleware companies, especially Unreal seeing as how much that engine has taken over Japanese gaming.
Elfforkusu
Member
CPU-wise, I expect the opposite. PPC is a dead end.
Dual screen or not is one of the big questions for the NX. I'd expect it to stay, since that's one of the key differentiating features Nintendo has. But it could go either way.
I think either it has 3DS BC or no BC at all.
PowerPC isn't exactly handheld-friendly. If anything, all NX devices would use the ARM architecture.
I think something like this would be the best solution. I liked the double screen with the DS series. But in this time, people would prefer more something like this.
The shoulder will be scroll buttons + includes AR functionality. the controller front will maybe have an extended display like this:
.
This is what I want the NX handheld to be. With ZL/L and ZR/R triggers. R and L would be scrolling wheels though.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Nintendo has referenced it as a home console more than once
No they've referenced it as a console. A term they use for their handhelds as well.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I'd also miss the clamshell. I rarely took my Vita or PSP out of the house because I was worried about scratching that screen
Plus I want to keep the two screens because A) I find them great and developers have done super cool stuff with them, and B) maximum compatibility with DS and 3DS games. I'm a whore for BC
Plus I want to keep the two screens because A) I find them great and developers have done super cool stuff with them, and B) maximum compatibility with DS and 3DS games. I'm a whore for BC
Aztechnology
Member
The same thing goes for any high end electonic. You took yhat example far too literally. The point still stands. Yes a phone is going to be more expensive regardless but they also aren't the same business model. Consoles often tend to lose money on the hardware and recoup the losses on software sales.
This hasn't been true this gen at all, aside from Microsoft potentially cutting into the negative in order to try and remain competitive. Why do you think the PS4 and X1 are so comparatively weak? They went for the cheapest rung of the ladder for suitable performance.
Aztechnology
Member
Right, and with economy of scale as they've been able to continue manufacturing it's become cheaper. But at $400 apparently Sony was only making about $18 of profit per unit. At $300-350 they are losing money per unit.
I doubt they lowered the price below even, maturation/scale over a year+ would have dropped their costs of production. "Price drops" nowadays are in software bundles as that doesn't cost them on units sold.
But either way, the point was that nothing this gen (well, the WiiU is an exception but for dumb reasons) launched as a loss-leader with potent hardware to be recouped on software. It was cheap hardware to make even more money with software and online fees.
PdotMichael
Banned
Why not? they did it before with controllers.
I realy believe they will step away from the dual screen.
Really? The 3DS doesn't look any less indimidating. Girls in Japan play Monster Hunter, not My First Videogame.
PdotMichael
Banned
There is a reason why they went with the small pointing stick for the New 3DS and didn't mirror that analog pad.
People shouldn't forget that there is a big target group of people (housewives, business women etc.) who wants simple/low intense or touchscreen only controls. Nintendo's product design reflects that and don't let them go the same route as Sony with the Vita.
People shouldn't forget that there is a big target group of people (housewives, business women etc.) who wants simple/low intense or touchscreen only controls. Nintendo's product design reflects that and don't let them go the same route as Sony with the Vita.
Yeah, space. I feel 100% certain we'll get dual analogue for the NX.
PdotMichael
Banned
If Nintendo wanted a second circle pad they would have found a way to integrate it.
Of course it shouldn't surprise anyone that in a hardcore board like NeoGaf that people want a hardcore focussed hardware design but that's not really Nintendo especially after the WiiU disaster with the crowded WiiU pad.
I don't think thats the market they still want to get.
They did it before and it doesn't work anymore. They want to trigger a new group of people.
Nintendo also described to step away from all previous console.
They said that the install base will start from zero.
If nintendo should still focus on housewifes and girls, they will make the same mistake.
They did it before and it doesn't work anymore. They want to trigger a new group of people.
Nintendo also described to step away from all previous console.
They said that the install base will start from zero.
If nintendo should still focus on housewifes and girls, they will make the same mistake.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Is there a way to design a clamshell handheld so that it has analogue triggers, but the triggers become flush with the console / fully pushed in when the clamshell is shut? I haven't thought about it mechanically but I was thinking that would allow us to have a damn good set of controls that would still transform into something reasonably slim.
They were showing some new freeform dispays at the CEATEC trade show back in October. They said they'll enter mass production in 2016.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IafmpzMe0Ds
ShockingAlberto
Member
There are ways (the sticks could push in until they click, and then lock, for example), but it raises other concerns in terms of durability and space. Adds more moving parts, the system has to be spaced so this is viable and for the sticks to depress into the system, space on the top of the clamshell to push the sticks down without damaging the screen, etc.
If they go clamshell again, I would hope they have improved the 3DS' slider by now and can give it more control and versatility than before.
Here I am struggling to find a job, when I've been looking in the wrong place. Apparently I need to become an analyst for a research firm so I can get paid to make broad claims based on safe information and rampant rumors. Sounds great! Where can I apply?
Those are interesting ideas for sure but I believe he was asking about triggers which I could imagine are mechanically possible just not practical
Those are interesting ideas for sure but I believe he was asking about triggers which I could imagine are mechanically possible just not practical
I think there is. Should be tide to the mechanism of simultaneously 'clamshelling' the device.
I think something like this would be the best solution. I liked the double screen with the DS series. But in this time, people would prefer more something like this.
The shoulder will be scroll buttons + includes AR functionality. the controller front will maybe have an extended display like this:
But only to extend the display, not to show you important elements from the game. The screen will be touchalble, but not replace the regular buttons.
The rest of mockups will not work.
Yeah I agree with all this.
Except the A-symmetric analogue sticks on the top one. Gross.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think it could be more like this:
(I prefer this, with physical buttons)
Better hope nothing comes at you from your left or right
Nintendo NX: Yo wasn't 4:3 good enough?!
Your first point is fair enough - but this is Nintendo we are talking about. They have past history of spunking the BOM cost of weird gadgets while starving the core capabilities of the machine. So this logic doesn't apply
Second point I don't agree with, you won't suddenly have to use vector graphics. You'd probably just use a rectangle, and only the circle portion gets used.
Third point completely agree.
I'll add another two points-
if they do this, then third parties will mostly ignore it because they don't want to spend money on unique things that only a few people will use. So it'll just get shitty icons that never change and won't be used to its potential
If this is supposed to replace buttons then I'm not buying one. You'd need to constantly look down to see where you're pressing. On a phone, not having physical buttons is shit for some game types, but at least you're looking in the same place as the action. With this approach you can't easily press the buttons blind
If you're going to do a hybrid though, I think it makes sense to roughly follow the WiiU approach of having the hardware in the home console to save battery life.
So:
Portable NX is a single screen 16:9 with onbaird processing (I.e completely standalone like you'd expect)
Home NX is a proper console with similar but boosted innards based on the same architecture as the portable. So higher res display, higher res textures, faster framerate etc. Possibly using the same cartridges as the portable to keep retail costs down and simplify retail inventory management. Buy once, play anywhere.
Simple controller like the WiiU pro controller to keep costs down.
The added benefit of having both consoles is that you can stream from the home console to the handheld - giving you access to the higher performance visuals etc of the home console.
Also probably some weird asymmetric shit if you play local multiplayer using the portable NX as controllers
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Referring to triggers rather than sticks although I'm sure much of that still applies
I can't see them having analogue triggers on a handheld.....but if it ends up having force feedback scroll wheels for shoulder buttons (as rumored) then they may use those to replicate analogue trigger functionality. Rotate the wheel to increase/decrease vehicle speed, let the wheel go and the motor will move the wheel back to a starting position much like letting go of a trigger (you could even turn the wheel in the opposite direction when in its starting position to allow you to reverse a vehicle at varying speeds..so an improvement on what an analogue trigger can do by itself).