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Is 4K the best way to use the power of Scorpio and PS4K? Digital Foundry unconvinced
- Thread starter ShogunDarius
- Start date
Did you know any game that releases on PC is a 4K game? 4K is just as easy as any other resolution it's just hardware dependent. Hitting 4K for Scorpio will be a breeze.
I'd prefer 1440P with improvements though. That would pay dividends to everyone, even people without 4K Tvs and still be a tremendous resolution bump over 1080p.
Leyasu
Banned
I don't want another halo 5 situation where they have to make lots of sacrifices to hit 60fps. I would prefer an amazing looking 1080/60 for halo. Forza on the other hand...
Something I've just thought and sorry if this is a dumb question Im not to tech savvy on resolutions.
Lets just take an xbox one as example. Display output at 1080 on a tv. We've had some funky resolutions like 792pee (titanfall) 900pee(sunset) etc. Is it a possibility with a scorpio hooked up to a 4k tv to have something like 1440pee used and then upscaled to 4k by the tv if you get my drift? Or anything in between 1080-4k for that matter 1440 just seemed the obvious choice.
Lets just take an xbox one as example. Display output at 1080 on a tv. We've had some funky resolutions like 792pee (titanfall) 900pee(sunset) etc. Is it a possibility with a scorpio hooked up to a 4k tv to have something like 1440pee used and then upscaled to 4k by the tv if you get my drift? Or anything in between 1080-4k for that matter 1440 just seemed the obvious choice.
sammyCYBORG
Member
I'm a PC gamer rocking a 1080p screen, but their assumption that I'm not interested in 4K is flat out wrong.
The problem is, I'd have to pay £400ish for a good 4K monitor, another £400 for a graphics card that could push out at 4K resolution, and even that a lot of games would struggle.
I'm being patient and waiting for the hardware to be there to handle 4K easily, then I'll jump in.
The problem is, I'd have to pay £400ish for a good 4K monitor, another £400 for a graphics card that could push out at 4K resolution, and even that a lot of games would struggle.
I'm being patient and waiting for the hardware to be there to handle 4K easily, then I'll jump in.
Like the new Spiderman game?
More or less my feelings and I'n afraid Microsoft 1st party will be first up to waste power on 4K like Halo 6 which would be very disappointing.
DaleinCalgary
Member
I want 60 fps and 1080p, thats it.
Chû Totoro
Member
See MS comments regarding Scorpio. 4K is good but if devs want to do something else with the extra power then it's good.
I'm all in for 1080p / 60 fps and very impressive games from start (physics, draw distance, number of npc...) with Scorpio and then 4K when devs will be more comfortable with the hw.
Maybe... maybe the gen made for graphics will not be only about this and will help gamers realize a game is more than that (so much more). It's not that looking at graphics is bad, but taking this criteria as the most important one is stupid imo.
Good guy DF, you know better
I'm all in for 1080p / 60 fps and very impressive games from start (physics, draw distance, number of npc...) with Scorpio and then 4K when devs will be more comfortable with the hw.
Maybe... maybe the gen made for graphics will not be only about this and will help gamers realize a game is more than that (so much more). It's not that looking at graphics is bad, but taking this criteria as the most important one is stupid imo.
Good guy DF, you know better
D
Deleted member 98878
Unconfirmed Member
Same for me. I have a 980Ti and a 1080p monitor. I just want to max out all settings, install some graphic mods and get rock solid 60FPS. Depending on the game I can even go for 1440p (downsampling) and maintain 60FPS
4K for the Scorpio is just some marketing gibberish imo. You could achieve it, sure, but at what price? 30FPS with low-medium settings?
Sniffynose
Member
Stuff is so hit or miss even at 1080p right now, expecting 4k to be different is stupid, I'd rather a locked in 1080p never stray 30-60fps game dependent frame rate with the added eye candy.
All the shit about HDR is a farce right now since the standard is so vague for new 4k sets that even though you might have a top of the line TV it might not even be a thing regulated for a few years and in it's current form you can't see the screen effectively without being in a VERY dim room since the screens boost maximum brightness to spread the dynamic range so there is no way to further compensate for a bright room like the old non-4k standard could.
It's exactly like using a high end color calibrated PC monitor, (Adobe RGB and Photopro say hi) you have to use it in a dim setting to properly see the entire range.
So any performance gain we had at the moment is being shit away by trying to push 4 times the data. We all know what type of PC you need to get proper frame rates at 4k and the costs involved, but instead we are going to expect consoles where Dev's can't handle 1080 games to somehow have better? graphics at 4k while still sitting at a decent frame rate.
I meant I know they want to sell more 4k TV sets but come on... I laugh even thinking of trying stream 4k content on our lame ass Canadian Internet, we have a long fucking way to go before 4k is the norm, our HD TV is a 720p/1080i compressed shit show as it is.
All the shit about HDR is a farce right now since the standard is so vague for new 4k sets that even though you might have a top of the line TV it might not even be a thing regulated for a few years and in it's current form you can't see the screen effectively without being in a VERY dim room since the screens boost maximum brightness to spread the dynamic range so there is no way to further compensate for a bright room like the old non-4k standard could.
It's exactly like using a high end color calibrated PC monitor, (Adobe RGB and Photopro say hi) you have to use it in a dim setting to properly see the entire range.
So any performance gain we had at the moment is being shit away by trying to push 4 times the data. We all know what type of PC you need to get proper frame rates at 4k and the costs involved, but instead we are going to expect consoles where Dev's can't handle 1080 games to somehow have better? graphics at 4k while still sitting at a decent frame rate.
I meant I know they want to sell more 4k TV sets but come on... I laugh even thinking of trying stream 4k content on our lame ass Canadian Internet, we have a long fucking way to go before 4k is the norm, our HD TV is a 720p/1080i compressed shit show as it is.
DaleinCalgary
Member
How close to the TV would I need to be to notice a difference between 1080 and 4k?
8K is already being shown at CES and the like, which makes the case for 4K even harder as it is inevitably a transitional technology. If they can get the display costs to accelerate further down on cost faster than what it has it may be enough for some traction and these consoles, but it's much harder to push display purchases than what Sony did with cementing blu-ray with the PS3.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Depends on the size of the TV. Generally though most 4K TV's are quite large so I would say anything less than 10 feet will show a clear difference, with ~6 feet being the sweet spot for full benefit.
4K doesn't really provide the wow factor like the switch from SD to HD did. Except for the OLED TV's, now they are something special!
Sniffynose
Member
4 times closer or have a screen 4 times larger. The biggest difference is HDR giving a better graduation of darks to lights but in it's current form you need to be in a very dim setting to even see the end results, if the set truly uses it since the TV standards are all over the place at the moment with every company tossing out catch phrase tech of different results.
Always-honest
Banned
My guess would be no.
Have better feature support.
Support low input lag, grey to grey pixel timing needs to be much lower, and very low pixel persistence.
Not just a price thing.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Depends. Unless there's a certain install base they can sell their game to, it may be much, MUCH easier for them to let them dev tools bump up resolution to 4k and call it a day, as adding those bells and whistles is much more elaborate. Then again, Scorpio could profit from PS4 Neo games which basically forces devs to add those anyway, as a 4k bump is out of the question.
I would focus on making mind blowing games that run at 1080p 60 than wasting time trying to hit 4k for the small group of people who own 4k TVs.
4k TV ownership is going to rise but not for a while. For the NON ENTHUSIAST market, they are too big and too expensive. When people can walk into supermarkets and buy perfectly good quality 40" 1080p Sony Bravia TVs for £250, 4k has a long way to go to convince people that it's really worth it. Not everyone has the space or even the desire to have an 84" screen.
For a proper, HDR enabled 4k TV screen now you are very much in the super enthusiast bracket in terms of price. Trying to target this group would be a waste for MS and Sony I think - better to deliver rock solid 1080p 60 and stunning visuals, as that will be far more likely to attract the mass market of console gamers.
Save 4k for the full PS5 / Xbox Two / Trinity / Dr Evil or whatever they decide to call them. By the time they are ready to go 4k TVs will have fallen hugely in price and more people might consider them.
4k TV ownership is going to rise but not for a while. For the NON ENTHUSIAST market, they are too big and too expensive. When people can walk into supermarkets and buy perfectly good quality 40" 1080p Sony Bravia TVs for £250, 4k has a long way to go to convince people that it's really worth it. Not everyone has the space or even the desire to have an 84" screen.
For a proper, HDR enabled 4k TV screen now you are very much in the super enthusiast bracket in terms of price. Trying to target this group would be a waste for MS and Sony I think - better to deliver rock solid 1080p 60 and stunning visuals, as that will be far more likely to attract the mass market of console gamers.
Save 4k for the full PS5 / Xbox Two / Trinity / Dr Evil or whatever they decide to call them. By the time they are ready to go 4k TVs will have fallen hugely in price and more people might consider them.
Those charts are full of shit. Video games benefit greatly from increase resolution even at longer distances, since it cleans up aliasing, which is a problem at 1080p even on small tv's.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I wonder if people pushing for true 4k have even considered the implications on file sizes.
Quantum break had about 10 4k cutscenes no more than 20 mins in length.
On top of 44gb game install, you had to download 75gb extra data. For cutscenes.
I hope with this 6tf system, it has 4tb hard drives built in.
Quantum break had about 10 4k cutscenes no more than 20 mins in length.
On top of 44gb game install, you had to download 75gb extra data. For cutscenes.
I hope with this 6tf system, it has 4tb hard drives built in.
Sniffynose
Member
As a mainly digital user this makes me cry inside especially when Sony makes me download it twice... once for me and once for my wife instead of letting us copy and paste it over and activate licenses like Microsoft does =S
LastGamer84
Member
I personally think the 4k part of these consoles has more to do with movie playback than games. In addition, I have a feeling the Neo will eventually supplant the base ps4 and allow them to release a slimmed down morpheus that doesn't need it's own processing unit.
I have a feeling Scorpio was MS's attempt to not be left behind with the launch of VR. If the One was going to have a chance at supporting Occulus, it needed a revision.
But that's just my take on it.
I have a feeling Scorpio was MS's attempt to not be left behind with the launch of VR. If the One was going to have a chance at supporting Occulus, it needed a revision.
But that's just my take on it.
CyberPunked
Member
The graphical sacrifices that would need to be made in order to run the games at 4K would be enormous, and illogical.
Holy crap.
Well, I guess most stuff is in engine I suppose.
I wonder if Forza Horizon will have better textures or just a resolution bump, AA, AF and what not?
Scorpio could probably push Halo 5 to 4K but who wants to see that quality at 4K and not better assets, effects, draw distance, 60fps enemies etc. That's what I fear Halo 6 is going to like. Halo 5 4K or id's Rage for PC users.
JayWood2010
Member
Im sure there will be variety. Some games will be 4k, some will not but take advantage of the extra power. They said you can do that, so there you go.
Samurai G0SU
Member
With all the benchmarking tests i think we will need 8-10 tf power for really nice 4k gaming.
Assuming both neo and Scorpio still have jaguar CPUs at similar clock then it would seem clear that both are being oitched as running Xb1/PS4 games at higher resolutions but the same level of detail. This might be disappointing for some, but it might also be a good thing. If you don't have a 4K TV and aren't too bothered about an improved image quality from downscaling to 1080p, then you can happily save your money until the next box they release.
I do think some developers may choose to go for more detail per pixel instead of resolution, but I wouldn't rely on that to make a purchasing decision - better to wait and see. I don't think you'll suddenly see a rash of games being 60fps, especially if the CPUs aren't very different.
I do think some developers may choose to go for more detail per pixel instead of resolution, but I wouldn't rely on that to make a purchasing decision - better to wait and see. I don't think you'll suddenly see a rash of games being 60fps, especially if the CPUs aren't very different.
LegalEagleMike
Member
pretty sure they are just using 4k as a buzzword to make it apparent to the gaming public that Scorpio is super duper powerful and that they will not be losing the resolution warz anymore once it comes out.
CyberPunked
Member
I have a 4K monitor and even I choose to run games at 1440p so that I can get better visuals and a more stable frame rate. If the AA solution is good 1080p and 1440p are good enough, and 4K should only really be used when you have power to spare. Something that is definitely not the case with consoles.
dragonelite
Member
Something something coding to the metal.... xD
Just for real im pretty sure they can find a way to push 4k@60fps and still have good graphics. I think more devs will apply something like Quantum break reconstructing a nice image from different resolution rendertargets to reach 4K.
Would be lame to not have 4k games after touting its a 4k machine.
hemo memo
Member
Both Scorpio and Neo are using it as buzzword and as far as I know (for Neo atleast) resolution display is manadtory at 1080 but framrate is not. So you'll continue to see games targeting 30fps.
So are games going to look worse when they are downscaled from 4K to 1080p if a consumer doesn't have a 4K set yet (compared to just playing it at native 1080p)? Also, is the Scorpio going to automatically upscale every game to 4K now or will it play a game at native 1080p if that is it's native resolution?
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I'll take 1080p 60fps with bells and whistles. Leave 4K to PC owners that have money to burn. I just can't justify spendings thousands of pounds to play 4K 60fps.
BleedOrange
Banned
Yep. I'd be down for two presets in console games for the 4K transition period. 1080p/60fps @ High/Ultra or 4K/30fps @ Medium.
Phil confirmed that the console would have console-level downsamping and upsampling. So, any dev can take advantage of the 6TF in any way they want and the final image will match the resolution of your screen.