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Is 4K the best way to use the power of Scorpio and PS4K? Digital Foundry unconvinced
- Thread starter ShogunDarius
- Start date
clem84
Gold Member
That's what happens when you promise and promise and promise.
Biingo - seems zero reason unless the internal resolution is near to 2160p (1440p is not close - it is as 720p is to 1080p) not to upscale from 1080p
ps3ud0 8)
geordiemp
Member
Yup, we dont need full PC options, just a simple 60 FPS ?
In fact devs should be trying to go for Neo mode is 60 FPS, would make me buy one.
Final Verdict
Member
I'm excited to see if turn 10 can get F7 to run 4k@60 on Scorpio.
They have done a great job getting the past two games to hit 1080@60 on the XB1, so hopefully they can lead the way here.
They have done a great job getting the past two games to hit 1080@60 on the XB1, so hopefully they can lead the way here.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Wait, i thought neo was purely upscaling to 4k?
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
They will go 60fps with dynamic resolution that "up to" 4k res(even most time won't be 4k res).
Dynamic resolution is actually become a great thing in future, like Scorpio can do 1080p 60fps for Halo 5 all the time, so Scorpio 2 should be able to do 4k 60fps for Halo 6 all the time.
They already said developers are free to do, 4k medium or 1080p ultra, whatever they want.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I bet they will and that will be the showcase launch title. What remains to be seen is how much they can also improve the graphics alongside the big resolution bump.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
But then Halo 6 is going to look like Halo 5 on XB1, but at 4K. I don't think anyone wants that.
Dragon Puncher
Member
4K is good as a concrete talking point when trying to sell why consumers need these consoles and what makes them different from what is already out there. We'll see how the power actually gets used in practice.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Or maybe you should wait how will it looks at first.
UnluckyKate
Member
I don't care about 4K.
I'd rather see 60fps, better AA, better texture filtering...
I'd rather see 60fps, better AA, better texture filtering...
7DollarHagane
Banned
4k is a generation or two away. Last gen we struggled with 720p/60, this gen we struggle with 1080p/60.
4k is a bigger leap than 720-1080 as well. Plus requires new television sets or monitors. Plus youre actually getting into "imperceptible difference" at certain display sizes and distances.
I would rather see better effects and framerates at 1080p for another 7-10 years.
60fps will always be a dream because some development teams and publishers don't believe it's worth the effort or sacrifices.
4k is a bigger leap than 720-1080 as well. Plus requires new television sets or monitors. Plus youre actually getting into "imperceptible difference" at certain display sizes and distances.
I would rather see better effects and framerates at 1080p for another 7-10 years.
60fps will always be a dream because some development teams and publishers don't believe it's worth the effort or sacrifices.
Yeah. Don't plan on comparing them either. They're still struggling with a stable 30 on console.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Quite right. My bad. The language used will probably still cause them issues if they don't tone it down a bit, though.
Given what Andrew House has said so far with Neo it sounds more cautious and realistic.
Actually yeah, you're right. Good call.
It isn't high yet, but they are betting that it will grow sharply in the next 1-2 years and want to have consoles on the market for new 4K set owners.
Its probably a good time to start demanding 60fps because moving to 30fps to 60fps isnt easier years later dependent on how an engine it setup. Perhaps maybe more that engines can account for that possibility.
Who wont want to play old favourites a couple of generations away and probably expect more than just a resolution improvement.
ps3ud0 8)
Who wont want to play old favourites a couple of generations away and probably expect more than just a resolution improvement.
ps3ud0 8)
lightchris
Member
Even ignoring the fact that the rumoured specs won't be enough to run PS4 games at full 4K, I agree that it is not the best way to use the power. But not (or not only) because most users don't have a 4K TV. There are just so many other things besides resolution that can be improved that are arguably more important in the pursuit of movie-like graphics quality.
The advantage of just rendering the same game at 4K is of course that it's trivial for developers to implement. No extra content, no need to upgrade engines with more sophisticated lighting models etc.
The advantage of just rendering the same game at 4K is of course that it's trivial for developers to implement. No extra content, no need to upgrade engines with more sophisticated lighting models etc.
Backfoggen
Banned
My guess is that 4K is reserved for games being developed right now and new projects that target the weird Neo/Scorpio half-gen will run at 1440p-2160p.
Native 3840x2160 wastes too many pixels on reasonable TV sizes.
Native 3840x2160 wastes too many pixels on reasonable TV sizes.
vpance
Member
How good is this reconstruction?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I don't think native 4k is the right way to go at the moment.
With 4TF it doesn't make sense to target 4k at all.
With 6TF it still doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think native 4k Gaming will become a viable option for devs once we pass the 10TF in consoles. Until then its probably better to output 1080p with top notch AA or downsampling and instead of having 4k resultion use the power to improve graphics, physics, AI and framerate.
With 4TF it doesn't make sense to target 4k at all.
With 6TF it still doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think native 4k Gaming will become a viable option for devs once we pass the 10TF in consoles. Until then its probably better to output 1080p with top notch AA or downsampling and instead of having 4k resultion use the power to improve graphics, physics, AI and framerate.
It still amazes me that the tech industry is pushing 4K so hard right now. It's way too early for that. No one has a 4K set, hardly anyone wants a 4K set and even fewer people are releasing content for 4K sets. It's too goddamned early to be trying to make us all buy into 4 f*cking K.
As for the gaming world, we've only just now reached a point where we're getting acceptable performance and IQ at 1080p. Can we not just work with that for a bit?
As for the gaming world, we've only just now reached a point where we're getting acceptable performance and IQ at 1080p. Can we not just work with that for a bit?
Equanimity
Member
Sony, if you're reading this, please put a 60fps mandate on every game that supports the Neo.
I can guarantee you right now that Neo/Scorpio will not output 1440p without some form of scaling. You are just a minute end user case...
ps3ud0 8)
SeeNoWeevil
Member
All those amazing tech demos we've seen that struggle to run at 1080p30 in real-time on silly quad Titan X systems and people want to quadruple the pixel count to 2160. Why?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
60fps is as much about targeted development as it is hardware. It's possible but I think more likely the PS4 / Neo games will run at the same framerates with the latter 'just' getting a graphics bump. Especially if it does indeed have the same (albeit higher clocked) Jaguar CPU.
I agree though, a 60fps mandate should happen on consoles with 30fps receiving a long overdue death!
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
A problem with 4K as a great talking point to convince the public they need a Neo or Scorpio: as soon as these consoles come out and most games rationally stick to 1080p to maximize performance, we'll see shocking expose articles. "Xbox Scorpio offers fake 4K gaming, games upscaled rather than natively rendered."
It's marketing. 4K represents a shortcut to make the average game player, who doesn't understand why shiny graphics look awesome, to think the new consoles do something completely new. Thus making them worth spending more money on when someone already has a XBO or PS4. Just as VR is a huge marketing point because it's "new".
It's just that compared to VR, which is already somewhat iffy, 4K is a particularly empty marketing tactic. These consoles aren't going to have SLI 1080s in them.
It's marketing. 4K represents a shortcut to make the average game player, who doesn't understand why shiny graphics look awesome, to think the new consoles do something completely new. Thus making them worth spending more money on when someone already has a XBO or PS4. Just as VR is a huge marketing point because it's "new".
It's just that compared to VR, which is already somewhat iffy, 4K is a particularly empty marketing tactic. These consoles aren't going to have SLI 1080s in them.
Yeah Sony's message is more simple and to the point. Game will look better on Neo.
Collateral22
Member
No 1080/60 Ultra/high settings is the best way to get the most out of it for the average person.
Really depends on method used.
4xMSAA trick with ordered sample pattern gives identical edge resolution with 1080p shading resolution.
TAA methods can be used as well, like Quantum Break did. (720p to 1080p)
vpance
Member
I think they should give us 30, 60 and unlocked options. Even if the 60 option has to drop effects quality or something.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
I don't think there is any need to worry about what these consoles are going to be doing. 4K will be there just for marketing.
I do believe we will see some games outputting 4K native resolution but I suspect that both Sony and Especially MS will be watching reactions and we will see more 1080p @60fps with much more visual fidelity.
I believe we will also get nice downsampling, I think Phil mentioned this on the GB interview so suspect Neo to do the same.
I do believe we will see some games outputting 4K native resolution but I suspect that both Sony and Especially MS will be watching reactions and we will see more 1080p @60fps with much more visual fidelity.
I believe we will also get nice downsampling, I think Phil mentioned this on the GB interview so suspect Neo to do the same.
FrenchFryFiend
Member
For some reason I still dont think every game will be 1080p and 60 fps, much less 4k.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Dynamic resolutions over 1080p, 1440p, or odd resolutions like 3840x1440p will all look fantastic upscaled to 4K with HDR.
The most important thing here is that developers are being given a choice, and we're finally getting hardware that should at least guarantee 1080p.
The most important thing here is that developers are being given a choice, and we're finally getting hardware that should at least guarantee 1080p.
vpance
Member
As long as Sony and MS makes this easy to implement in their SDK, they should make this mandated if it gives the highest quality method to achieve "4K". Or, they can give us dynamic res and some mixture of ultra/high/med if they need to to hit 60.
Mohonky
Member
Nup.
Don't care for 4K, it's still a 16:9 resolution and that really doesn't interest me. I still game at 1080p on my PC (lowly by PC standards) but with a 21:9 screen, I have no issue with the resolution. Going forward, when upgrading video cards, I'll take more complex visuals with lots of AA and fixed 60fps+ as my preference over lower fps and less complex visuals.
Don't care for 4K, it's still a 16:9 resolution and that really doesn't interest me. I still game at 1080p on my PC (lowly by PC standards) but with a 21:9 screen, I have no issue with the resolution. Going forward, when upgrading video cards, I'll take more complex visuals with lots of AA and fixed 60fps+ as my preference over lower fps and less complex visuals.